KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 08:24 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Starting a fresh thread here for the Medium 'Mechs, since the original one is getting way too cumbersome. Please continue to discuss on that thread though 
Just a suggestion: since the current forum engine doesn't seem to support "threaded" discussions properly (like it did when I first joined), it's very helpful if you reply directly to the specific comment you want to respond to, and quote if possible. "That's a great point" isn't a useful response when there's no clues as to what point is being referred to...
Thanks. Just trying to keep the discussion nice and tidy.
Anyway, first Medium 'Mech upgrade coming up momentarily.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 08:31 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Assassin ASN-JM
Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 7,386,213 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,064
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Large Pulse Laser
1 Medium Laser
1 LRM-5
1 SRM-2
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 280 8.00
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 7 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT 3.50
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 104 6.50
CASE Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT 1.00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 16
Center Torso (rear) 5
L/R Torso 10 13
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 6 9
L/R Leg 10 11
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Large Pulse Laser LA 10 2 7.00
LRM-5 RT 2 1 2.00
SRM-2 LT 2 1 1.00
@LRM-5 (24) RT - 1 1.00
@SRM-2 (50) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 12
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 11
7j 2 2 1 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
Looking through the TRO:3050, I award the Assassin the Silver Medal in the
Worst Upgrade Competition. Fluff explanations aside, the official upgrade is
truly cringe-worthy, being one of the few upgrades to actually make the 'Mech
worse.
Aside from not using Endo Steel or even Ferro-Fibrous to save tonnage, the
"upgrade" removes not only 1/3 of the Assassin's total firepower, but also
eliminates the option of carrying highly useful Inferno rounds by removing the
SRM 2 completely. If that wasn't bad enough, the saved tonnage was wasted:
Artemis IV for the LRM 5, providing a negligible increase in performance;
replacing the Medium Laser with a Pulse Laser for almost no net benefit at the
cost of 1 ton and one heat.
I was never really impressed with the Assassin. While it's speed and the LRM
make it highly versatile, its total firepower is laughable, leaving it with the
highly specialized role of hunting down vunerable support vehicles (troop
transports, Mobile HQ, etc.) or finishing off badly damaged units trying to
withdraw.
Admittedly, there's little that can be done for the Assassin as a field refit.
Even upgrading to Ferro Fibrous armour only frees up 1/2 ton, which would be
best spent on increasing the armour. IN fact, with the Assassin's speed, the
best refit would probably be to drop the LRM, rather than the SRM, in order to
improve the remaining weapons.
However, this upgrade series if for new production models, allowing the use of
the best tech available in 3050. Endo Steel is the obvious start, and with 40%
of its tonnage being used for its 280 Engine, coupled with its fringe-combat
role, the Assassin is also a natural candidate for an XL Engine, saving an
additional 8 tons. My first thought was to upgrade the SRM either to a Streak
or to a larger rack, but I decided to leave it alone...Infernos are a
tremendous asset for its primary role. Instead, I gave it a serious primary
weapon: a Large Pulse Laser in the Left Arm, allocating the remaining tonnage
to improve the 'Mech's notoriously light armour.
I chose the LPL primarily because of the Assassin's speed and jump range. It
should have little difficulty closing to Short or Medium Range, and the Pulse
Laser's accuracy helps counter the targeting difficulties associated with Jump
movement.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/02/14 08:34 PM
67.239.109.174
|
It's the perfect canidate for the LPL.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 08:35 PM
70.118.139.48
|
On the Assassin, why did you skip on going with the Streak SRM2?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 08:37 PM
67.239.109.174
|
He did say why...
|
Retry
03/02/14 08:38 PM
67.239.109.174
|
"My first thought was to upgrade the SRM either to a Streak
or to a larger rack, but I decided to leave it alone...Infernos are a
tremendous asset for its primary role."
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 08:42 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
On the Assassin, why did you skip on going with the Streak SRM2?
Infernos.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/02/14 08:44 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Thank you KJ. Infernos are great, but the risk of them getting hit not so good of an idea to be carrying them. Does CASE contain Infernos going off?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 09:00 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Thank you KJ. Infernos are great, but the risk of them getting hit not so good of an idea to be carrying them. Does CASE contain Infernos going off?
I would guess "yes" by omission...to my knowledge, the rules don't list Infernos as an exception to the basic effect of CASE, which forces me to assume that they are contained. Unless Tac Ops has something to say about it?
OTOH, the 'Mech doesn't have to carry infernos, it's simply one option not available to the Streak launcher.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 09:01 PM
24.30.128.72
|
there is alwasy the option of dumping the ammo when things get dicey.
The sad thing is, drop the laser and put an ac 5 on, and you got a fast shadow hawk.
Best I could figure it make it a long range mech, or a short range mech. It tries to do so much with the light weapons it has.
Maybe drop the lrms for more medium to short range weapons. Get in, hit and get out sort of thing.. It is an assassin, not a potshotter mech...
|
Retry
03/02/14 09:05 PM
67.239.109.174
|
The LPL as it's main gun by default makes the mech a short ranged one.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 09:07 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
there is alwasy the option of dumping the ammo when things get dicey.
The sad thing is, drop the laser and put an ac 5 on, and you got a fast shadow hawk.
Best I could figure it make it a long range mech, or a short range mech. It tries to do so much with the light weapons it has.
Maybe drop the lrms for more medium to short range weapons. Get in, hit and get out sort of thing.. It is an assassin, not a potshotter mech...
I actually like the LRM for its role. The small amount of damage may be enough to cripple a vehicle's movement, or inflict a critical hit of a damaged unit limping away from the battle. Certainly enough damage to defeat the back armour of a fleeing Light 'Mech.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/02/14 09:08 PM
70.118.139.48
|
For the Assassin are you keeping the original fluff of it being modular in some ways?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 09:09 PM
67.239.109.174
|
If the LRM can launch smoke rounds like a SRM, even better.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 09:10 PM
24.30.128.72
|
only innersphere lpl is short ranged. The clan one is almost as far as lrms.
As for the inferno problem. It isn't the explosion that makes them dangerous, its the napalm affect. It would heat the mech and keep it burning like the infernos description says.
My opion would be it would build more heat, since it would be inside the mech, instead of on the armor.
|
Retry
03/02/14 09:11 PM
67.239.109.174
|
None of these are clan tech so it's the clan one is irrelevant.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 09:18 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
For the Assassin are you keeping the original fluff of it being modular in some ways?
Never even thought of that. Since none of the original weapon systems have been altered, I suppose it's still applicable.
Have to laugh about the fluff referring to the Assassin's "ample firepower" and "good armor".
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/02/14 09:19 PM
67.239.109.174
|
I was wondering about that, seeing as though it follows up saying it has 4.5 tons of armor.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 09:21 PM
24.30.128.72
|
compared to the stinger, it does. How dare you suggest the fluff is wrong? 
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 09:22 PM
24.30.128.72
|
Hell it beats the original charger as well.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 10:40 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Cicada CDA-JM
Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 8,869,467 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,053
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 320 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 Medium Pulse Lasers
2 Small Pulse Lasers
1 Beagle Active Probe
1 Guardian ECM Suite
2 Anti-Missile Systems
1 C3 Computer (Slave)
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 LT, 3 RT, 5 LA, 5 RA
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 320 11.50
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 134 7.50
Armor Locations: 3 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 17
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 10 15
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 6 12
L/R Leg 10 19
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Pulse Laser RT 4 1 2.00
Guardian ECM Suite RT 0 2 1.50
Anti-Missile System RT 1 1 0.50
Medium Pulse Laser LT 4 1 2.00
Beagle Active Probe LT 0 2 1.50
Anti-Missile System LT 1 1 0.50
C3 Computer (Slave) LT 0 1 1.00
2 Small Pulse Lasers CT 4 2 2.00
@Anti-Missile System (12) HD - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 5
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 11
8 2 2 0 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: PRB, RCN, ECM, AMS, C3S, ENE, MHQ1, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
The Cicada. Essentially an overgrown Locust with no advantage other than more
Internal Structure to destroy before losing a section completely. The weapon
selection could be a Locust refit.
In my opinion, the Cicada is far too heavy to move as fast as it does...it
would perform much better at a slower speed or a lower tonnage.
The only way to proceed with an oversized speeder is an XL Engine to save 11
tons. The official upgrade wasted it on a pointless UAC/5 and ammo, when there
were plenty of better options.
I went a completely different route, since the Cicada's speed make it ideal for
close combat. As I've stated before, I have issues with IS Medium Pulse
Lasers, but if a 'Mech is able to control the range at 1, 2, or 4 hexes, they
have their advantages. With that in mind, I replaced all the lasers with Pulse
models, and added an additional SPL.
A C3 Slave computer allows the Cicada to take advantage of its close proximity
to effectively target friendly ranged weapons while making full use of its own
weapons. Beagle Probe because if it's gonna go that fast, it might as well
have some use as a scout.
Finally, DHS to keep the heat under control, more than double the armour
coverage of the original, AMS for protection against incoming missile fire, and
an ECM to mess with enemy electronics.
Overall, not much more direct punch than the original, but much better overall
usefulness.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/02/14 10:43 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Your take on the Cicada does give it more uses and the C3 Slave gives it more worth over all.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 10:47 PM
24.30.128.72
|
Maybe get a long range energy weapon on it...
Possible slow it down and add more weapons..
With the ecm, it might be good to slow it down and give it a good punch. useful for ambush..
Granted, the c3 means it could rush in and get the short range to hits for the team..
I agree the innersphere pulse lasers are lacking because of the range. I would think ermls or even normal ones would be better.
An option would be tag..
|
Retry
03/02/14 10:52 PM
67.239.109.174
|
With light fights when you use nothing but hovercrafts, VTOLs, and light mechs, the pulse lasers become incredibly valuable. You realize pretty quickly that the extra range of the standard ML doesn't mean anything if you can't hit your target.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 10:56 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Maybe get a long range energy weapon on it...
Possible slow it down and add more weapons..
With the ecm, it might be good to slow it down and give it a good punch. useful for ambush..
Granted, the c3 means it could rush in and get the short range to hits for the team..
I agree the innersphere pulse lasers are lacking because of the range. I would think ermls or even normal ones would be better.
An option would be tag..
Keeping the speed as my commitment to the original concept. Dropping the equipment for a ERLL is an option, but there are plenty of other Mediums with long range abilities.
No ERMLs in 3050.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 10:59 PM
24.30.128.72
|
it has been my exerience that alot of time you have no choice on what you fight with. It is use what you have NOW, and not wait for another unit.
That works both ways as well. One of the reasons a kick isn't always a good idea. A punch while running means that if you miss, you don't take a header as well as having more of an arc around you.
Technically there isn't much better then strafing runs with fighters or even dropships. But that is besides the point.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 10:47 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Clint CLNT-JM
Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 6,728,680 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,063
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Ultra AC/5
1 Medium Pulse Laser
2 Medium Lasers
1 Small Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 4 LT, 2 RT, 4 LA, 3 RA
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 240 6.00
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL 3.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 120 7.50
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 17
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 10 14
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 6 10
L/R Leg 10 15
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultra AC/5 RA 1 5 9.00
Small Pulse Laser LA 2 1 1.00
Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser CT 3 1 1.00
Medium Pulse Laser CT 4 1 2.00
@Ultra AC/5 (20) RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 8
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 11
6j 3 3 1 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES
FA$A's love for the AC/5 always mystified me. I'll be one of the first to
insist that the weapon has its uses, but the original TROs put it in many
places where it really didn't belong.
The Clint simply doesn't have the high heat output required to make the AC
desirable in comparison to a PPC or Large Laser, and the sheer size limit's
the Clint's armour to barely more than half of maximum.
While the official upgrade made a very intelligent switch to an ERPPC, that's
the kind of upgrade that makes me twitch; the AC is the Clint's signature
weapon, and changing it alters the character of the 'Mech (in my opinion).
So my goal here is to make the Clint more effective while keeping the AC/5.
Problems to be addressed: moderate offensive potential, poor armour coverage.
Endo Steel saves 2 tons, but that's not enough, so an XL Engine is required.
Upgrade the AC/5 to a Ultra AC/5 to increase ranged damage by about 46%. Add a
Medium Pulse Laser for close-range effectiveness, a Small Pulse Laser for
anti-Infantry, CASE to protect the AC ammo, and 3 additional tons of armour.
Finally, DHS to dissipate the increased heat output.
Still probably not as effective overall as the ERPPC version, but an
improvement.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Edited by KamikazeJohnson (03/03/14 10:48 AM)
|
ghostrider
03/03/14 03:20 PM
66.27.181.33
|
without the argument of going ppc/large laser thing, the biggest issue I can see is the need for more ammo for the ac 5. double fire rate means 10 shots is not enough.
And I think the ac 5 was their love because when the game first came out, it was the ONLY cannon available.
For things like clan challeges, the cannons were great. They could reload without worrying about a campaign. For raids, where your in and out, then ok there.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 03:57 PM
24.114.41.53
|
Quote:
without the argument of going ppc/large laser thing, the biggest issue I can see is the need for more ammo for the ac 5. double fire rate means 10 shots is not enough.
And I think the ac 5 was their love because when the game first came out, it was the ONLY cannon available.
For things like clan challeges, the cannons were great. They could reload without worrying about a campaign. For raids, where your in and out, then ok there.
I was going list a variant that drops the SPL for additional ammo. If it was 60 tons or more, I'd agree the extra ammo would be essential, but at 40 tons, and fast to boot...
I for one don't usually fire in Ultra mode at high to-hit numbers, so those 20 shots should last 12-15 rounds, rather than 10.
If you've looked closely at my designs, you'd see how rarely I leave a 'Mech with less that 15 shots. This one could probably get away with it, but yeah, trading the SPL for more ammo is a very reasonable modification.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/03/14 04:06 PM
66.27.181.33
|
Fast?
Alot of mechs around this weight are 6/9. The cicada would be fast. This is average. Granted the heavy and assault are slow compared to it.
As for getting away, that depends on the mission. I can see where alot of mechs tend to die before using all their ammo, but as you said, this one should be able to keep moving to avoid this fate
|