Retry
03/09/14 04:23 PM
76.7.238.202
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Am I seeing this right? The 200kg 3 damage AP Gauss Rifle for the clans has a BV of 21, while the 325kg 3 damage Heavy Recoil less Rifle with worse range brackets has a BV of 22?
The BV shows it must be seeing something I'm not. What's so special about the HRR?
And then there's the clan bearhunter superheavy autocannon dealing 3 damage at brackets 0-1-2 and the clan HMG doing the same thing, plus being extra effective vs. infantry, at brackets 1-2-2. Why even bother with the HMG?
For all the weapons BA can wield many of them seem to be a bit sub-par to a couple high-enders.
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Karagin
03/09/14 04:33 PM
70.118.139.48
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Guess so, then again I don't use BV since I find it to be pointless and have better luck with setting a tonnage limit for each side.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/09/14 04:34 PM
66.27.181.33
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Depending on the dates they were released, it could be one is the advance version of the other one.
Also, with research it is possible both were developed by different factions.
I don't remember if ammo stores are part of bv or not. I will assume they do the same damage, since that is an obvious bv changer.
A mech carrying lots of mgs for a weapon, can look extremely dangerous in the short range section of bv, but nothing at medium/long range, but a hussar mech would look weak in all three range groups.
And then there's the clan bearhunter superheavy autocannon dealing 3 damage at brackets 0-1-2 and the clan HMG doing the same thing, plus being extra effective vs. infantry, at brackets 1-2-2. Why even bother with the HMG?
Did you get that backwards? You say the hmg does the same thing plus being effective against infantry.
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Retry
03/09/14 06:03 PM
76.7.238.202
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I don't use BV myself, but I find it curious that the system made a weapon that seems overall not as good worth more BV than the superior looking system.
Yeah, I got that backwards.
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Retry
03/09/14 06:43 PM
76.7.238.202
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Apparently in TW rules BA is also transported at 1 ton per trooper. Despite whether or not the battlesuit point consists of 400kg suites or 2 ton suites.
Are there any rules that get this changed?
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ghostrider
03/09/14 07:08 PM
66.27.181.33
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are they considered motorized infantry?
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Retry
03/09/14 07:13 PM
76.7.238.202
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Nope, they are just considered battle armor.
Which annoys me. It makes it even less of a choice to take smaller battle armor when, in the eyes of a vehicle transport bay, they all take the same space.
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TigerShark
03/09/14 07:32 PM
68.190.197.104
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The BV for infantry weapons are a joke. A single Foot Platoon of Clan Infantry with Mauser IIC rifles can kill any 3025 unit ever made, and for a tiny fraction of the BV.
Clan Foot Platoon (Mauser IIC) [245 BV]
25 troopers x 1.37 = 34 damage/turn max, 3/6/9 range
Um... Yeah. Right.
If there was ever an idea described as "stupid," it's the Mauser IIC system.
Edited by TigerShark (03/09/14 07:54 PM)
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Retry
03/09/14 07:41 PM
76.7.238.202
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24 damage/turn max, but what's the average?
And the infantry will get destroyed by any unit with a modestly sized LRM or SRM that loaded infernos or frags. Heck, if it gets hit by either with standard munitions they won't be in exactly stellar shape.
Add to that the fact that as infantry take damage, their potential to damage others decreases in turn.
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TigerShark
03/09/14 07:54 PM
68.190.197.104
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Quote:
Retry writes:
24 damage/turn max, but what's the average?
And the infantry will get destroyed by any unit with a modestly sized LRM or SRM that loaded infernos or frags. Heck, if it gets hit by either with standard munitions they won't be in exactly stellar shape.
Add to that the fact that as infantry take damage, their potential to damage others decreases in turn.
Error. According to the errata, it's 1.37 damage/trooper. So 34 max and the average is 20/turn. It forces a PSR. On AVERAGE.
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TigerShark
03/09/14 07:58 PM
68.190.197.104
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Quote:
Retry writes:
24 damage/turn max, but what's the average?
And the infantry will get destroyed by any unit with a modestly sized LRM or SRM that loaded infernos or frags. Heck, if it gets hit by either with standard munitions they won't be in exactly stellar shape.
Add to that the fact that as infantry take damage, their potential to damage others decreases in turn.
A Star of these infantry = 1225 BV. That's an average of 100 damage/turn for less than a TDR-5S Thunderbolt.
And yes, Infantry are easy to kill. But can you think of any 'Mech which could afford to take 20 damage like that? Assuming it even hits and/or kills the entire platoon?? Most AI weapons put you in the Mauser IIC's short or medium bracket.
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Retry
03/09/14 08:45 PM
76.7.238.202
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We're still talking foot platoons, right?
The slow ones that can hardly move at all so really have to hope that the enemy
Anyways, you shouldn't compare infantry platoons sporting the most advanced personal weapon system available to conventional platoons to a 2491 Thunderbolt with introtech. Try a piranha for size.
Hell, to add insult to the injury ferro-lamellor the piranha. A simple way to make the platoons cry.
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ghostrider
03/09/14 11:09 PM
66.27.181.33
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retry has made a very good example of why battle armor was a terrible idea, with all the upgrades they have come out with, for the balance of the game.
any mech 30 tons or below seem to have less armor the a clan star of battle armor.
It seems the mauser has the range of what is considered normal medium range for large size weapons, and they can mount lrm launchers.
I will assume the ferro-lamellor armor is the equal to ferrous fiber. It is uncertain about some of the other armors, but with the ones he has shown here, the developers have not considered how badly out of balance this is getting and it will get worse.
So a single squad of this armor had 5 units that is more then equal to alot of light mechs that have medium ranged weapons.
Mechwarrior companion has several weapons in it for infantry that would be extremely easy to put on battle armor, but they did not say how much damage it does to mechs and tanks. Since 3 of the weapons are based on gauss technology, and the simple infantry rifle does damage mechs, I would say simple research would make a very nasty combination.
Read the thread about the armor retry has put up. I would like to see if anyone agree with the thought about how bad battle armor has gotten and if it will screw up the game even more.
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Retry
03/09/14 11:13 PM
76.7.238.202
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Well, keep in mind the infantry is in the Assault class.
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TigerShark
03/10/14 12:00 AM
68.190.197.104
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You're not getting the gist of a large-scale game. As a Clan player, I could park a Dire Wolf way back. If you approach me, you're taking multiple PSR chances from a few cheaply-made Infantry platoons.
You'd know that I have infantry on the table, but even a Piranha is going to take SEVERE damage from these guys before killing even a single platoon. I would love to try it out in MegaMek if you have time.
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Retry
03/10/14 06:55 PM
76.7.238.202
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It won't be so severe if my Piranha is custom made with Ferro-Lamellor armor.
I'm not sure why that isn't a standard armor for the Piranha production line. Halving damage from the source that they are supposed to hunt makes a lot of sense.
Or my Nephilidae, though it is very inefficient against Conventionals it takes only 2 hits to splice open powered armor, and trying to score TACs through loads of hits doesn't work too well with the modifiers from hardened armor and internal structure combined.
Speaking of powered armor, give one of those a AP gauss rifle and I believe they'd cut through conventionals like butter.
Or strafe them with a conventional fighter. Or bomb them with a conventional fighter, if you are really desperate. Or both.
Vehicles are not so nice for infantry hunting though, they just get disabled by motive crits.
Ah, here's one. Plasma Rifles and cannons. They outrange Mauser IICs by a bunch and are devastating to conventionals and BA alike.
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TigerShark
03/10/14 07:01 PM
68.190.197.104
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Like I said, welcome to show me how it's done.  A Dire Wolf is going to shred even several Piranha while they're concentrating on my infantry. Ferro-Lamellor or none.
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Retry
03/10/14 07:02 PM
76.7.238.202
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If you don't mind customs I can take you up right now.
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TigerShark
03/10/14 07:19 PM
68.190.197.104
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Quote:
Retry writes:
If you don't mind customs I can take you up right now.
Fine with me. Adds a lot more meaning if I can beat customs with canon units. I will send my IP / Port / Version No.
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TigerShark
03/10/14 07:41 PM
68.190.197.104
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I sent a PM. Will be back soon from an errand.
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Retry
03/10/14 07:41 PM
72.214.204.166
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Abruptly interrupted. Can't tell when I can get back on. Current device I am using cannot do MM. Will get back to you when I can.
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Retry
03/10/14 07:45 PM
72.214.204.166
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Nvm about customs. I can scrounge up some canon stuff. Though I will need to know the time frame and such.
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TigerShark
03/10/14 08:40 PM
68.190.197.104
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I will be around all night tonight. It's around 1700 PST where I'm at. So just PM me here.
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Retry
03/10/14 11:13 PM
76.7.238.202
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Well, didn't work out too well.
Anyways, Cray, care to shed some light on things?
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TigerShark
03/10/14 11:28 PM
68.190.197.104
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Quote:
Retry writes:
Well, didn't work out too well.
Anyways, Cray, care to shed some light on things?
I'm still around if you wish to try again. Just change the port to 2355.
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Retry
03/11/14 12:03 AM
72.214.204.166
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ATM I am more interested in finding out what makes the clan AP gauss and the clan HRR competitive if it is at all.
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TigerShark
03/11/14 01:10 AM
68.190.197.104
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:-\
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ghostrider
03/11/14 01:39 AM
66.27.181.33
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yeah, I know ts. He wanted sooo badly to play against someone, and now that it is possible, he is curious on making his battle armor carry gauss weapons.
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Retry
03/11/14 09:25 AM
72.214.204.166
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?
I tried, it froze.
Maybe too many map sheets?
On top of that the ORIGINAL topic WAS about those two weapons before you sent it off topic.
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