urban mech with a gauss

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ghostrider
04/11/14 11:42 PM
24.30.142.80

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I don't see why they couldn't us one.
The hollander mech has one an it's only 5 tons heavier but is faster. You should be able to shoe horn in a gauss.
Retry
04/11/14 11:59 PM
76.7.236.208

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You certainly could, and it would be much better in the open, but minimum range weapons tend to not fare so well in urban combat.
Karagin
04/12/14 12:15 AM
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How is the minimum range of the Gauss rifle going to be an issue? Why in the hell would you ever allow an enemy to get that close? If you are allowing it, then you have a serious miss understanding of tactical thinking and or planning.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
KamikazeJohnson
04/12/14 12:30 AM
50.72.218.68

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The minimum on a Gauss isn't that cumbersome anyway...at range 1 hex, it's the same as Medium Range. And yes, you shouldn't be getting that close to anything with a 30-tonner...at least not to anything that can shrug off a Gauss hit.

I made a serviceable Urbie with an AC/20. A Gauss is only 1 more ton, and can make do with less ammo. I'll give it a try.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Retry
04/12/14 12:33 AM
72.214.204.166

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Someone's forgetting we are talking about a 2/32 walking trash can mech.

Why allow anyone to get that close? Perhaps because it can't even hope to escape a fatatlas?

There's tactical thinking, then there's your asset's capabilities to perform within those plans. This is a clear issue of the latter, and you'd do well to realize that.
KamikazeJohnson
04/12/14 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Retry writes:

Someone's forgetting we are talking about a 2/32 walking trash can mech.

Why allow anyone to get that close? Perhaps because it can't even hope to escape a fatatlas?

There's tactical thinking, then there's your asset's capabilities to perform within those plans. This is a clear issue of the latter, and you'd do well to realize that.



BTech's Initiative rules guarantee that you will be able to move away from one specific enemy, no matter how fast it is, about 50% of the time. Plus, in most cases, there will be other units on the board. The bestway to keep an Atlas away from your UrbanMech is to put your Atlas in between...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Retry
04/12/14 12:57 AM
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I get that it can be done to minimize chances of these occurrences, but Karagin seems to act as though it's insanely slow speed plays a minimal role in whether your urbie will be closed in with. This couldn't be further from the truth.
ghostrider
04/12/14 02:23 AM
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in an urban setting, there is the jump jets. granted the other person may decided to come thru the building, but most of the time, you are not going to destroy the city. They might go around.

An ask yourself this question.
You have just encountered some urbies with a gauss rifle. Are you going to be sooo anxious to engage the others?
ATN082268
04/12/14 06:45 AM
69.128.58.222

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BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Urbangauss
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Custom design

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 60 Leenex Fusion
Walking Speed: 21.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 32.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 2 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 60 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous

Armament:
1 Gauss Rifle

Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Urbangauss
Mass: 30 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 51 pts Endo Steel 14 1.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 4 LA, 4 RA, 4 LT, 2 RT)
Engine: 60 Fusion 6 1.50
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 3
Jumping MP: 2
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 8 .00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 HD, 3 LT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Gyro: 4 1.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 90 pts Ferro-Fibrous 14 5.00
(Armor Crit Loc: 4 LA, 4 RA, 5 LT, 1 RT)

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 8
Center Torso: 10 15
Center Torso (Rear): 5
L/R Side Torso: 7 8/8
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 5/5
L/R Arm: 5 8/8
L/R Leg: 7 10/10

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Gauss Rifle RT 1 16 9 17.00
(Ammo Locations: 2 RT)
2 Standard Jump Jets: 2 1.00
(Jump Jet Loc: 2 CT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 1 74 30.00
Crits & Tons Left: 4 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 1,727,700 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 707 (old BV = 680)
Cost per BV2: 2,443.71
Weapon Value: 231 / 231 (Ratio = .33 / .33)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 13; MRDmg = 11; LRDmg = 7
BattleForce2: MP: 2J, Armor/Structure: 2/3
Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/2, Overheat: 0
Class: ML; Point Value: 7
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/12/14 07:59 AM
172.56.16.48

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Why do you have eight tons under heat sinks?
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ghostrider
04/12/14 08:21 AM
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I think that is 8 crits for the heat sinks.
Karagin
04/12/14 10:14 AM
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If ATN and Retry would use the CODE html tags things would be easier to read.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
04/12/14 10:57 AM
97.101.96.171

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Quote:
Retry writes:

You certainly could, and it would be much better in the open, but minimum range weapons tend to not fare so well in urban combat.



2 hexes of minimum isn't a big issue. Urban combat does happen at ranges other than 1 hex.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Retry
04/12/14 12:04 PM
72.214.204.166

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It's not an issue, no, I'm just saying you can't reliably keep your distance on the enemy with an urbie of that configuration.

And Karagin, it's not difficult to read at all whatsoever.
Karagin
04/12/14 12:05 PM
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It is Retry.

And yes you can keep distance IF you don't try to play as if you are in a Solairs 7 fight. The Urbanmech isn't going to be all by it's self either, and a smart player will know to keep moving and if the other side gets close, jump away.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
04/12/14 12:15 PM
24.30.142.80

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it is difficult to keep some mechs from closing. Mix this type of urbie with the others and you won't know if the one you are after isn't an ac 20 carrier or a gauss in a fast (excuse the term for an urbie) paced battle. I like the options.
Retry
04/12/14 12:20 PM
72.214.204.166

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I'll make an urbie to support the gauss rifle one later.

I like how Karagin is so confident that his urbies will effortlessly evade his opposition with his 2 jump jets.
Karagin
04/12/14 12:42 PM
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The mech would have other mechs or vehicles etc...with it. I am confident in how I play the game Retry and my understanding of tactics allows me to not leave something unsupported.

And Ghostrider not many mechs are going to run up on something hitting them with the level of damage the Gauss does. Not with out something going for them.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
04/12/14 06:34 PM
76.7.236.208

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I see how it is. Take all the flaws in a mech and brush them off with assorted statements such as "wrong tactics", "not meant to be perfect", "we'd have reserves"...

Aaaanyways, to support ATN's urbangauss..


UrbanMech UM-R61
IS TW non-box set
30 tons
BV: 653
Cost: 1,905,800 C-bills
Source: Star League

Movement: 2/3/2
Engine: 60
Double Heat Sinks: 10 [20]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 51 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 104/105
Internal Armor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 10 11
Center Torso (rear) 8
Right Torso 7 8
Right Torso (rear) 6
Left Torso 7 8
Left Torso (rear) 6
Right Arm 5 10
Left Arm 5 10
Right Leg 7 14
Left Leg 7 14

Weapons Loc Heat
Large Pulse Laser LA 10
Large Pulse Laser RA 10
AMS HD 1

Ammo Loc Shots
AMS Ammo CT 12
KamikazeJohnson
04/12/14 07:19 PM
50.72.218.68

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Quote:
Retry writes:

I see how it is. Take all the flaws in a mech and brush them off with assorted statements such as "wrong tactics", "not meant to be perfect", "we'd have reserves".



I'd say that of all the "heavy ballistic" versions, the AC/10 is probably the best all-around utility. The AC/20 and Gauss versions are both useful and highly effective, but both have limitations...an intelligent commander (with proper resources) would deploy the alternates only with proper support.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
04/12/14 09:34 PM
24.30.142.80

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I can see the use of the ac 10 when they brought it out. It is effective outside of a city with the range even though the mech itself is horribly slow.
Since the gauss didn't come out until alot later.

And no, Karagin. Not everyone will run straight up the an urbanmech. The ac 10 is still respectable. But once you know this version had a gauss rifle in a city, what would be the best way to counter it? Getting behind it is obvious, but barring that?
Retry
04/12/14 09:48 PM
76.7.236.208

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Getting close to it, as I said. Alternatively you could indirect LRM it. But Karagin's making it out as though you'd have to be blessed by god if you ever manage to get close to his GR urbies.
Karagin
04/12/14 10:08 PM
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No Retry, I am saying that you don't allow your self to be caught in a tarp, use the mechs to your advantage, put them where they can use the streets to fire down, or place them where they can pop out and fire and then fade back into the clutter of the city.

Not stand fight, but hit and move, the Gauss will hurt things, most mechs can't take more then a few hits from it, and if you are suggesting that a player is going to run into a city and slug it out, then I think you are indeed playing the wrong game.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
04/12/14 10:17 PM
76.7.236.208

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The issue you don't seem to understand is the "move" part of "hit and move". Even with double-blind mode, it doesn't take much for a much faster mech, hovercraft, or VTOL to move to the general vicinity of the hostile urbie. The "fade" only works if your enemy allows you to do so. It's not as though you're dumbfounded when a 2/3/2 mech "disappears" from the intersection you were just fighting in. It's even worse when your urbanmech is forced to jump, because the urbanmech has an even more difficult shot to make.
Karagin
04/12/14 10:23 PM
70.118.139.48

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I understand a lot better then you, and I also understand how confusing a city fight can be, something you do not seem to understand, since you are fixated on having range and the ability to move around, the idea isn't to move fast, it is simply to move. You fire, you move, then your enemy has to react, they can move forward, but wait what else is done there, is there more mechs or infantry or what??? You don't know. So sure you can sent in your VTOLs, and watch them face the same thing, since they will draw fire and yes you get the bonus of them spotting but what it means is you have two turns if you are lucky and then your eye in the sky is done.

Now I am not sure if you even understand that cities are not simply a half dozen or so buildings and some ferrocrete roads. They are mazes of twists and turns and you are not going to know what is there, add in minefield and other fun things like vibrobombs and you have a rats nest, but hey if you think your tactics will win then enjoy them, I will stick to ones that DO work and allow you to use the mech, even with a Gauss Rifle, to it's fullest.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
04/12/14 10:52 PM
76.7.236.208

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According to the rules, this is hardly the case. EVERYONE moves first, then EVERYONE fires. There is not really some "fire THEN react" crap going on here. If you don't separate your troops, when you move your urbanmech into attack position you're facing off an entire lance if not more. Due to the urbanmech's... speed... you won't generate very high attack modifiers and will be nothing more than a sitting, juicy duck for the enemy lance around the corner. Not to mention Urbies have problems outrunning infantry...
Karagin
04/12/14 11:08 PM
70.118.139.48

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An entire lance in a city...glad you understand the terrain, wait no you don't. And based on your comments it is clear that you do not fight very often in a city setting. What your comments tell me, and this is my opinion of your style of play is that you are not comfortable in a city setting, you want things to be more open verse close in where you buddies can't always support you.

Urbanmechs do very well in the terrain they are made for, fighting in a city. Given that they will not be standing all by themselves waiting for your to move your lance up. And if you are so welded to open to medium levels of terrain style of fighting, which it does indeed sound like then you will not do so well in a city. But I know I am not going convince you of anything so let's move on.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
04/12/14 11:20 PM
72.214.204.166

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You need four hexes without buildings in a city to fit a lance in.
This becomes two if using vees.
Are there at least four open hexes in a city?
*facepalm*
ghostrider
04/13/14 02:23 AM
24.30.142.80

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first, for indirect fire to work, someone has to poke their head out.

actually that is not entirely true retry. Infantry can ambush a unit at anytime, unless they changed that. also moving one unit and spotting a unit for another to follow up is part of the game. don't know if the double blinds show units before or after everyone has moved. been a while.
Now without buildings? I have seen more then a few mechs use a building as shelter.
look at the Further adventures of the black widow for a real city fight. They tell you to flip the board over and have locations for some buildings while others are randomly placed.

And Karagin, most people hate city battles.
With the mech designs he has, anything that doesn't have mapsheet between them causes issue. Mechs that don't move much with clan large pulse lasers with all the ecm crap that makes it hard to even see it should have told you that.

the small crap on the maps with a like 8 concrete spots is not a city. some maps look like a large city with roads.

and that doesn't mean the urbies can't start in a building facing the on coming mechs.
Karagin
04/13/14 12:16 PM
70.118.139.48

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Everyone has areas they do not want to fight in, and that is part of the game as well when you think about it.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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