KamikazeJohnson
04/24/14 02:14 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
The ultra 5 is ok, but was never a real fan of the 5 series.
Nice to see you have a variant planned with the gauss. That one might have been a good idea to go with, and honestly, mechs do not always need full armor load. With dropping the other things, you may have been able to use your endosteel or maybe ferrous fibre.
The range and damage of the gauss would open those gaps and possibly not need to exploit them next round by doing the damage this round.
Marauder MAD-JM
Mass: 75 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 15,776,250 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,940
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Gauss Rifle
2 ER PPCs
2 Medium Pulse Lasers
2 Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 114 points 4.00
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 1 RT, 5 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 9.50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 15(30) 5.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 1 RA
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 208 13.00
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 23 35
Center Torso (rear) 10
L/R Torso 16 23
L/R Torso (rear) 8
L/R Arm 12 23
L/R Leg 16 23
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
ER PPC RA 15 3 7.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
ER PPC LA 15 3 7.00
Gauss Rifle RT 1 7 15.00
2 Medium Pulse Lasers CT 8 2 4.00
@Gauss Rifle (16) LT - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 0
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 19
4 4 5 3 0 3 1 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
You're right...I was able to squeeze on Endo Steel, which saved enough for me to not only keep all four MLs but to upgrade two of them to MPLs, at the cost of half a ton of armour. Didn't have the crit space to keep all the DHS, which is unfortunate.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/24/14 03:25 AM
172.56.6.212
|
On my Marauder I went with movement of 5/8 armed it with a gauss rifle with three tons of ammo two ER large lasers and a rear firing medium laser
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
ghostrider
04/24/14 04:10 AM
24.30.142.80
|
nice kj. Might have to miss firing a ppc once every 3 rounds or so.
Now the big question is the case. Do they still take a crit? not sure if the rifle is worth using the case. maybe half ton of gauss ammo for it....
|
Maurer
04/26/14 04:59 AM
98.154.219.23
|
I like this marauder variant, especially with the cluster ammo hitting armor breached by the ppcs. I would do two medium pulse lasers instead of 4 medium and drop 2 heatsinks for two mgs plus half ton of ammo and half ton of armor to reign in the minmaxness while adding variety.
"Captain! We're completely surrounded on all sides." - Kiff, Futurama
..."Excellent, then we may attack in any direction." - Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
"A fool fights a war on two fronts; only an idiot defends on one." - Fusilier
Edited by Maurer (04/26/14 08:12 AM)
|
KamikazeJohnson
04/26/14 01:06 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Maurer writes:
I like this marauder variant, especially with the cluster ammo hitting armor breached by the ppcs. I would do two medium pulse lasers instead of 4 medium and drop 2 heatsinks for two mgs plus half ton of ammo and half ton of armor to reign in the minmaxness while adding variety.
Interesting suggestions...I'd absolutely hang on to 16 DHS, to be able to stand and fire the primaries, but dropping the 17th and a half ton of armour for a pair of MGs is worthwhile. 2 MPLs vs 4 MLs is tough to justify, although I might trade the ML pair in the CT for a single Pulse to give some variety.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
04/26/14 01:13 PM
70.118.139.48
|
What about going for an AMS or C3?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
04/26/14 01:34 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Karagin writes:
What about going for an AMS or C3?
C3 or TAG can be substituted for a Medium Laser on pretty much any design. AMS instead of the MGs could be a definite asset.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
KamikazeJohnson
04/26/14 01:43 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Orion ON1-JM
Mass: 75 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 15,512,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,860
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Gauss Rifle
1 LRM-15 w/ Artemis IV FCS
1 ER Large Laser
3 Medium Lasers
2 Streak SRM-2s
2 Small Pulse Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 114 points 4.00
Internal Locations: 4 LA, 6 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 9.50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 224 14.00
CASE Locations: 1 LT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 23 36
Center Torso (rear) 9
L/R Torso 16 22
L/R Torso (rear) 10
L/R Arm 12 21
L/R Leg 16 32
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Small Pulse Laser RA 2 1 1.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
ER Large Laser LA 12 2 5.00
Small Pulse Laser LA 2 1 1.00
Gauss Rifle RT 1 7 15.00
LRM-15 LT 5 3 7.00
Artemis IV FCS LT - 1 1.00
Streak SRM-2 LT 2 1 1.50
(R) Medium Laser CT 3 1 1.00
Streak SRM-2 CT 2 1 1.50
@Gauss Rifle (16) RT - 2 2.00
@LRM-15 (16) LT - 2 2.00
@Streak SRM-2 (50) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 19
4 4 4 3 0 3 2 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1
DESIGN NOTES
Another of my personal favourites; I was quite disappointed to see the
extremely mediocre treatment it got in the TRO:3050. The XL Engine was nice,
but squandering the bulk of the savings on a Narc Beacon (which has limited
usefulness for your own LRMs) and on a questionable LRM upgrade, was a let-down.
I started with the original TRO:3025 version, dropping the illegal extra 1/2
ton of SRM Ammo and using Endo Steel and using Doube Heat Sinks. The result?
Enough tonnage to add CASE to both side torsos and upgrade the AC/10 to a
massive Gauss Rifle. While that was a nice improvement to the 'Mech's
long-range capabilities, it still leaves the Orion with severe ammo-dependency
at long-range, and no significant short-range weapon.
I tried on an XL engine to see if it would be worth the extra vulnerability.
Drop the RT CASE, replace the SRM with a pair of Streak SRM 2s, add Artemis FCS
to to the LRM, mount a Small Pulse Laser for anti-Infantry work in each arm, a
rear-facing ML in the torso, and a versatile ER Large Laser in the arm. The
increase in both total firepower and overall versatility is dramatic. The
Gauss Rifle sharing a torso with an XL Engine makes me rather uncomfortable,
but otherwise I think it's a powerful upgrade.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
04/26/14 01:52 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Okay I will take 100 of these with 200 more for the next batch. I like this one, you gave it teeth and and allowed it to play with the others in the game.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
04/26/14 02:20 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Karagin writes:
Okay I will take 100 of these with 200 more for the next batch. I like this one, you gave it teeth and and allowed it to play with the others in the game.
Thought you'd like it. One of the first upgrades that came together, I hated having to wait this long to post it.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
04/26/14 02:24 PM
70.118.139.48
|
All of your upgrades have been point on in that they make sense, by that I mean you didn't just swap out things and call it good. You put effort into them. That is something that many of the TRO3050 mechs for the Inner Sphere lacked.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
04/26/14 02:45 PM
24.30.142.80
|
the only reason for the 3050 tro was to make money.
Actually, if done right, the developers had an idea of how much of what product was available. Endo steel was not supposed to be this common. Also, I would think they were trying to dumb down the innersphere so the clan mechs seemed that much more impressive.
The orion was never that impressive for me. Maybe it was because it was an ammo dependent mech compared to the marauder and warhammers.
They upgrades are good ones. Does alot to change my opinion of the mech.
|
KamikazeJohnson
04/26/14 03:36 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
the only reason for the 3050 tro was to make money.
Actually, if done right, the developers had an idea of how much of what product was available. Endo steel was not supposed to be this common. Also, I would think they were trying to dumb down the innersphere so the clan mechs seemed that much more impressive.
The orion was never that impressive for me. Maybe it was because it was an ammo dependent mech compared to the marauder and warhammers.
They upgrades are good ones. Does alot to change my opinion of the mech.
I believe I summarized my thoughts on the TRO:3050 in the original post for this project. I have issues with the "scarce materials" argument, considering the population and industrial base available. I can accept limited facilities to assemble the final product, but components should be available in whatever quantity the buyer can afford.
In any case, a new TRO should people excited about the game, rather than disappoint them with missed opportunities...every player wants to open the book and see their favourite turned into an Unstoppable Death Machine; finding out all they did was trade the MGs for an AMS is frustrating, and reduces the enjoyment of playing in that era.
At the very least, the primary TRO entry for each 'Mech should be the exciting, full-featured version, with limited-tech and field refits listed in the fluff, and possibly used in the scenario packs.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
04/27/14 05:58 AM
24.30.142.80
|
Oh, I agree about the bs on the scarcity of materials and factories. They should have more things that would have driven down costs. Something as important as this should have had several most factories built/repaired.
And I agree with the tros should be something to make people want to keep buying the products, not make them feel like they wasted their money. Not everyone that plays is a highly paid programmer, or engineer, or retired military.
Buying mechwarrior 3 roleplaying book and seeing they were already making mechwarrior 4 roleplaying book finally made me say enough. The super characters in the scenario packs along with in the book, but yet there is no way in hell, according to their rules, could they do that. So just like some of the older rpgs, you find something else to play.
That is another reason people tend to leave games. When they change some of the rules with the next addition. Ams it a good one. First verions killed missles out of the ones that HIT the mech. Now it reduces the volley before you know what does hit the mech. Another is the infantry. Now battle armor is bugging me. Why not turn them into the main fighting units and get it over with.
But we are moving away from the mechs upgrades.
|
KamikazeJohnson
04/27/14 12:32 PM
50.72.218.68
|
That wraps up the Heavy category. One thing that has surprised me so far is the number of XL Engines I used...it was not my intention at the beginning to XL everything in sight, but for some it just made sense, based on the 'Mech's intended role, and others simply needed it in order to cirrect all their weak points. Finally, some were decent upgrades without it, but were short just a couple tons of an upgrade that was just begging to be used.
One thing that was clear: it's easier to build a nice, balanced advanced-tech machine from scratch than it is to uograde an old one to the same level. And oddly enough, some of the more embarrassing 3025 'Mechs became more impressive than the early era's most respected models. I was also surprised by how few designs use an AC/10...
What's next? Assault 'Mechs of course. Since FASA originally tried to make everything move 4/6, expect a lot more unfortunate XL Engines, since my list of limitations forbids me to downgrade speed.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
04/27/14 12:40 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Looking forward to them.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
04/27/14 06:01 PM
24.30.142.80
|
Think of it this way kj. A ppc or even a large laser has so many benefits over the ac 10. Main thing is a lack of ammo. For a light mech or even a medium, the less heat produced by the ac 10 made it worth while. Now with the larger mechs, they can hold more heat sinks because of the extra weight.
I don't mind the xl engines. Yeah they cost more, but the weight savings as well as the crit savings will make them more likely. You will probably run out of crits alot faster now with the big boys. I would say make a thread of upgrades that changes the speed for an efficient killing machine.
|
KamikazeJohnson
04/27/14 06:59 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
Think of it this way kj. A ppc or even a large laser has so many benefits over the ac 10. Main thing is a lack of ammo. For a light mech or even a medium, the less heat produced by the ac 10 made it worth while. Now with the larger mechs, they can hold more heat sinks because of the extra weight.
I don't mind the xl engines. Yeah they cost more, but the weight savings as well as the crit savings will make them more likely. You will probably run out of crits alot faster now with the big boys. I would say make a thread of upgrades that changes the speed for an efficient killing machine.
I'm not saying the AC/10 is a fantastic weapon that should be used more, but considering the abundance of AC/5s, even when a PPC would serve better, I'm surprised that FASA didn't use it more.
The biggest problem with the IS XL Engine is that loss of a side torso = dead 'Mech. So even with CASE, an ammo explosion is still a death sentence. Gives the big slow machines a lot less durability, so you have to make sure tge advantages are enough to compensate. In the case of the Charger, Banshee, and Cyclops, the answer is a definite YES. In the case of the Victir or Zeus...possibly not.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
04/27/14 07:04 PM
24.30.142.80
|
I think one of the designers loved the ac 5. that might be why they have an overabundence of them. Part of it might go back to the original box set when it was the ONLY ac availble.
Even with the vulnerability of losing the side torso and the engine, I would think the extra weight saved by the engine is used to help prevent that. Then again, if you use the snake eyes hit on the table, it is possible that nothing you do will prevent the mech from dieing.
And once you lose your armor on the torsos, you should be trying to leave the battle anyways, so using the armor is the same thing like weapons.
|
KamikazeJohnson
04/27/14 07:24 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
I think one of the designers loved the ac 5. that might be why they have an overabundence of them. Part of it might go back to the original box set when it was the ONLY ac availble.
Even with the vulnerability of losing the side torso and the engine, I would think the extra weight saved by the engine is used to help prevent that. Then again, if you use the snake eyes hit on the table, it is possible that nothing you do will prevent the mech from dieing.
And once you lose your armor on the torsos, you should be trying to leave the battle anyways, so using the armor is the same thing like weapons.
Agree about the source of some of the AC/5 'Mechs. Still...more AC/20 'Mechs than AC/10 'Mechs. Especially among the Assaults I would have expected more.
If you want a good overview of how XL Mechs fare vs non-XL 'Mechs, reread my 2nd Design Challenge. If both are designed well, they tend to be quite evenly matched.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|