AS7-E Atlas

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KamikazeJohnson
10/27/14 12:14 AM
50.72.218.68

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Not sure if either or both of these variants have been done to death, but it just recently occurred to me how easy it would be to really pump this thing up.

Atlas AS7-E

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 9,512,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,918

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
1 Autocannon/20
1 PPC
1 Large Laser
1 SRM-6
4 Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
Ok, so over the years, i've seen a lot of discussion about the poor old Atlas,
mainly about how, despite being the only 100-tonner in the original TRO:3025,
and despite it's impressive numbers, it turns about to be something of a "weak
sister" due to its low speed, ammo dependency, and lack of long-range weapons.


With my upcoming Lance battle, I've really been looking over the design and its
strengths and weaknesses, and come to a few conclusions:


1) A predominantly short-range weapons loadout is a poor choice on such a slow
machine.

2) A LRM, even the LRM 20, is not a strong enough weapon to be the primary
weapon on a 100-ton 'Mech


So, with that in mind, and also considering that, to me, "If it ain't got no
AC/20, it ain't no freakin' Atlas", I decided to try to do a better job.


Simple change. Drop the LRM and ammo for 12 tons, pile on a PPC and a Large
Laser. Gives it long-range fire comparable to most, if not all, heavies of the
era, and actually becomes MORE devastating at close range.


Variants:
My alternate configuration sacrifices a bit of close-range performance for
long-range. Downgrade the SRM 6 to a SRM 4, drop a ton of armour, and swap the
LRM for a pair of PPCs. Alternatively, the rear-mounted lasers could be
dropped instead of the armour and SRM downgrade.


================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 152 points 10.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 300 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 20 10.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 304 19.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 48
Center Torso (rear) 13
L/R Torso 21 31
L/R Torso (rear) 11
L/R Arm 17 33
L/R Leg 21 42

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
Autocannon/20 RT 7 10 14.00
SRM-6 LT 4 2 3.00
PPC LT 10 3 7.00
Large Laser LT 8 2 5.00
2 (R) Medium Lasers CT 6 2 2.00
@AC/20 (10) RT - 2 2.00
@SRM-6 (15) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 15

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 19
3 4 4 1 0 4 1 Structure: 8
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, AC 1/1/0
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
10/27/14 12:46 AM
208.54.86.154

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I would ditch the SRM for more MLs and AC/20 ammo
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ghostrider
10/27/14 02:09 AM
75.80.238.38

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almost follows the Zeus profile with a heavier ac. I am one of those people that dislikes having large laser/ppc combos. I would prefer 2 ppcs, but 2 large lasers could work. Just a quirk.

As for losing the cannon, the same could be said about the hunchback.
But honestly, I would think changing the srm system for an lrm system. Try to get people into range of the ac by making ranged attacks even more costly then being up close.

I still think people would keep at a range with anything with an ac 20 if they can.
KamikazeJohnson
10/27/14 02:30 AM
50.72.218.68

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

almost follows the Zeus profile with a heavier ac. I am one of those people that dislikes having large laser/ppc combos. I would prefer 2 ppcs, but 2 large lasers could work. Just a quirk.

As for losing the cannon, the same could be said about the hunchback.
But honestly, I would think changing the srm system for an lrm system. Try to get people into range of the ac by making ranged attacks even more costly then being up close.

I still think people would keep at a range with anything with an ac 20 if they can.



Hard to top Twin-PPC if you have the Heat Sinks for it, but the LL/PPC combo can be very effective, considering the lower heat output and no minimum of the LL. But then again, I love eclectic weapons mixes (looking at you Thunderbolt!), so that's me. I actually made the twin-PPC variant first, but I didn't like the other sacrifices I had to make.

I actually like the AC/SRM pairing, as the SRM is the best way to take advantage of the damage done by the heavy weapons, which additional MLs can't do as well, but I wouldn't be against trading the SRM4 on the variant for extra MLs. Extra AC ammo isn't that big a deal...as ghostrider said, most opponents will stay clear of the AC/20's range, so you'll be doing most of your damage with the LL/PPCs anyway, so you wouldn't be likely to use up all of the ammo except in a major brawl. An additional ML would probably be worth more than the extra ammo. Depending on deployment, however, Donkey's suggestion could be a worthwhile variant.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
10/27/14 03:44 AM
75.80.238.38

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The range is only if you have the option. Heavy woods, lots of mech hiding hills, even cities might negate that option.

I have said it before and will again. I hate the missiles that hit tables. To few of them seem to hit. But game balance would seem to be why.

The large laser could be used at close range as well, though I would assume firing the ac when you get a shot. Extra ammo for shorter ranges might be good. Then again it might be a death warrant if you can't use the cannon.

There is one question kj. The variant you posted has an srm 6. You said something about trading the srm 4. Mistake on the original post or the comment? Removing the srm would allow double ppc and an extra sink or 2 if it is the 6 pack.
I would love someone to try to get in the minimum of the ppcs and forget about the cannon.

And you are right about donkey's variant being something that might work. No one say you have to fire everything in range.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
10/27/14 08:44 AM
172.56.7.13

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About the only place a Atlas is real good in is confined range combat. With that in mind ditching the SRM do to the lack of hits on the missile chart the increasing of MLs and AC/20 would go a long ways.

The only atlas's I really like is after 3050 and replacing the AC/20 with a gauss rifle. I see the pre 3050 atlas's as slow target with a LRM 20.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ghostrider
10/27/14 02:45 PM
75.80.238.38

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The srm has it's benefits, especially since they nerfed damage to infantry.
Another thing with it is crit making potential against vehicles.
But I do agree it would be better to use something else. The relying on ammo makes the atlas too vunerable once they run out or worse, get to a point that they have shots going critical and haven't used much if any. Even if they do nothing more then heat sinks might be a better idea.

Or add in a second small lrm launcher for taking out the smaller units instead of wasting the 20 lrm on those targets.

Or just do like most people and only use them in their terrain.
KamikazeJohnson
10/27/14 06:47 PM
24.114.23.54

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

The range is only if you have the option. Heavy woods, lots of mech hiding hills, even cities might negate that option.

I have said it before and will again. I hate the missiles that hit tables. To few of them seem to hit. But game balance would seem to be why.

The large laser could be used at close range as well, though I would assume firing the ac when you get a shot. Extra ammo for shorter ranges might be good. Then again it might be a death warrant if you can't use the cannon.

There is one question kj. The variant you posted has an srm 6. You said something about trading the srm 4. Mistake on the original post or the comment? Removing the srm would allow double ppc and an extra sink or 2 if it is the 6 pack.
I would love someone to try to get in the minimum of the ppcs and forget about the cannon.

And you are right about donkey's variant being something that might work. No one say you have to fire everything in range.



The comment about the SRM 4 was for the variant listed in the fluff text, which downgrades the SRM to a 4-pack and drops a ton of armour in order to trade the LL up to a second PPC. Personally, I think the SRM worjs very well alongside the big AC, giving the design some good crit potential. Personal choice I guess.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
10/28/14 12:22 AM
75.80.238.38

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My experience with missiles has been poor. Most of the time I get internal with other weapons, but seem that when I get a missile volley to hit, they tend to hit with the least about of missiles possible and they never hit the location that is internal. I say bad luck on that.

The srms are ok for most work. With the rest of the mech being ammo reliant, it does seem most people would empty the ac long before using the srms. Now if you increase the number of launchers, it may help remove the ammo from explosion situations.
I just agree lasers might be a better choice against other mechs.
Infantry and vehicles, you are correct. The srm would be a better choice.
I guess I still dislike the old weights for missile launchers. Just like the cannons being too heavy and not enough damage, but the lack of heat does a little balancing. The lack of ammo hurts them as well.

Still, the atlas works well enough to keep people at range. Not many will risk the cannon unless they are out of firing arc or very hard to hit. It isn't the kill everything in one hit, but does ruin peoples days when they hit.
KamikazeJohnson
10/28/14 09:49 PM
50.72.218.68

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On the contrary, I tend to do moderately well with LRMs, fairly well with SRMs, and very well with Streaks. Open up yhe holes, and the crits will come.

When constructing, I will generally use at least 2 MLs before choosing an SRM, but I love to have them. Ton-for-ton (including Heat), they hold their own against Medium Lasers.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Rotwang
10/29/14 09:05 AM
194.78.67.210

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LRM 20 is a pretty decent weapon, been doing a lot of 3025 era scenarios and the bigger LRM's tend to do relatively well. They lack the knock-out ability of weapons such as the PPC and bigger autocannons, but the damage spread can be nasty.

One of my favorite Atlas AS7 upgrades uses DSHS to install an extra PPC, CASE and add artemis to the missiles. Gives it more crediblity at range without having to reach for the ubiquitous Gauss Rifle.
KamikazeJohnson
10/30/14 11:30 PM
50.72.218.68

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LRM 20 is ok, but at 10 tons plus only 6 shots/ton of ammo, it's somewhat inefficient. And certainly not good enough to be the sole long-range weapon on an Assault 'Mech. Even on a Heavy, I prefer to have an energy weapon paired with it. Artemis IV FCS is a HUGE boost for both the LRM 20 and the LRM 15, but we're dealing with a 3025 design here.

Twin LRM 20s are a different story. Pairing them tends to even out the randomness of the Cluster Table, making them potentially more devastating than the famous Twin-PPC combo...which may be enough to justify the rather obscene amount of tonnage you need to dedicate to ammo...

I've always found the LRM 15 to be a much more elegant weapon to work with, at least from the design side.

Funny that so much of the discussion on this thread has been about what I didn't do to the SRM, rather than what I did to the LRM...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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