ATN082268
03/27/15 03:30 AM
69.128.58.222
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Code:AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Basilisk (Clan)
Tech: Clan / 3055
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 990,000 tons
K-F Drive System: (Unknown)
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:
16 NL55
16 ER PPC
16 ER Large Laser
16 Large Pulse Laser
96 Small Pulse Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Basilisk (Clan)
Mass: 990,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 178,200.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 20) 447,975.00
Lithium Fusion Battery 9,900.00
Jump Sail (Detachable): (Integrity = 5) 80.00
Structural Integrity: 150 148,500.00
Total Heat Sinks: 1,311 Double 670.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 18,360.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 2,475.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (400 days supply) 16,704.50
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (3,350 total armor pts) 2,963.50
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 550
Fore-Left/Right: 625/625
Aft-Left/Right: 525/525
Aft: 500
Cargo:
Bay 1: Cargo (1) with 2 doors 50,000.00
Bay 2: Fighters (50) with 8 doors 7,500.00
Small Craft (10) 2,000.00
Bay 3: BattleMechs (50) with 2 doors 7,500.00
Bay 4: Heavy Vehicles (51-100T) (25) with 2 doors 2,500.00
Light Vehicles (to 50T) (50) 2,500.00
Bay 5: Infantry (foot) Platoons (100) with 2 doors 500.00
Battle Armor Points/Squads (50) 500.00
DropShip Capacity: 20 Docking Hardpoints 20,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 6: (225-meter diameter) 600.00
Life Boats: 700 (7 tons each) 4,900.00
Escape Pods: 700 (7 tons each) 4,900.00
Crew and Passengers:
140 Officers (120 minimum) 1,400.00
550 Crew (103 minimum) 3,850.00
50 Gunners (40 minimum) 350.00
10 1st Class Passengers 100.00
3,800 Bay Personnel 26,600.00
1 Star Admiral's quarters 40.00
1 Star Commodore's quarters 30.00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 NL55 Nose 11 11 11 11 170 2,200.00
2 ER PPC Nose 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 12.00
2 ER Large Laser Nose 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 24 8.00
2 Large Pulse Laser Nose 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) -- 20 12.00
12 Small Pulse Laser Nose 4(36) -- -- -- 24 12.00
2 NL55 FL/R 11 11 11 11 340 4,400.00
2 ER PPC FL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 24.00
2 ER Large Laser FL/R 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 48 16.00
2 Large Pulse Laser FL/R 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) -- 40 24.00
12 Small Pulse Laser FL/R 4(36) -- -- -- 48 24.00
2 NL55 L/RBS 11 11 11 11 340 4,400.00
2 ER PPC L/RBS 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 24.00
2 ER Large Laser L/RBS 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 48 16.00
2 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) -- 40 24.00
12 Small Pulse Laser L/RBS 4(36) -- -- -- 48 24.00
2 NL55 AL/R 11 11 11 11 340 4,400.00
2 ER PPC AL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 24.00
2 ER Large Laser AL/R 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 48 16.00
2 Large Pulse Laser AL/R 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) -- 40 24.00
12 Small Pulse Laser AL/R 4(36) -- -- -- 48 24.00
2 NL55 Aft 11 11 11 11 170 2,200.00
2 ER PPC Aft 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 12.00
2 ER Large Laser Aft 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 24 8.00
2 Large Pulse Laser Aft 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) -- 20 12.00
12 Small Pulse Laser Aft 4(36) -- -- -- 24 12.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%) 9,900.00
1 Large Naval Comm-Scanner 500.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 2,144 990,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 56,180,172,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 104,520
Cost per BV: 537,506.43
Weapon Value: 85,843 (Ratio = .82)
Damage Factors: SRV = 1,621; MRV = 1,242; LRV = 825; ERV = 255
Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 874,659
(185,239 Structure, 640,598 Life Support, 48,822 Weapons)
Support Points (SP) = 882,300 (101% of MPV)
BattleForce2: Not applicable
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/27/15 01:39 PM
172.56.31.191
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A few issues
There are to many drop ship hard points you cant have that many on this ship.
How can you have less minimum required crew than minimum required officers?
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Cray
03/27/15 05:59 PM
67.8.171.23
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The docking hard points work - you need 50,000 tons per collar, round up.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Retry
03/27/15 06:00 PM
76.7.225.145
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Gunners are part of the crew, add that minimum to the crew minimum and there's slightly more crew members than officers.
As for docking collars, he has the absolute maximum for his "A JumpShip with a standard K-F core can have one Hardpoint for every 50,000 tons of ship mass (95% of which is taken by the drive core), or fraction thereof."
So he can have 19 or 20 hardpoints maximum for this ship, depending on the rounding rules interpretations.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/27/15 08:17 PM
208.54.83.255
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Quote:
Cray writes:
The docking hard points work - you need 50,000 tons per collar, round up.
I have seen nothing that says that. I have seen 50,000 tons per collar and nothing about rounding. Of course I have not spent tens of thousands of dollars to buy each an every rule book for BT. So it could have slipped through in one of the thousands of rule books I don't own.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/27/15 08:26 PM
208.54.83.255
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Your required to have so many crew members for a ship all depending on that ships type and size. Then your to have a number of gunners for the weapons on board. You divide all of that by five and that is the number of officers required. The number of required officers should be exactly one fifth of the number of required crew and gunners.
I don't have my books with me so I cant look up what this ship requires in crew and gunners.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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wolf_lord_30
03/27/15 08:32 PM
166.216.165.122
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Somebody forgot to have his coffee today.
But seriously folks, at least is not like warhammer, I've been out of that picture since I've been married, but according to my brother a couple of the armies I used to play are now obsolete or have been so overhauled I wouldn't recognize them anymore. So all those hours doesn't painting them just poof, down the drain. In battletech, not too much is obsolete. Maybe outdated, but usable. And the mechs are all playable. At least to some degree. Although I wouldn't suggest putting 3025 mechs against 3058 mechs.
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Karagin
03/27/15 10:54 PM
70.118.139.48
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Actually putting 3025 tech against 3058 tech isn't going to be walk over as you think wolf lord 30.
As for the ship, I can see it being used by smaller powers, or as picket ships for larger fleets.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/28/15 03:55 AM
172.56.21.9
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Quote:
Karagin writes:
As for the ship, I can see it being used by smaller powers, or as picket ships for larger fleets.
It seems to me to be a troop transport. Why else would you have 20 hard points and light weapons?
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
03/28/15 05:08 AM
76.89.120.217
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To carry ships like the vengeance, avenger, achillies and a few other assault ships into a system and remove anything smaller then a McKenna from the jump point? Maybe use a single ship to bring in invasion forces to take a planet that can actually fend off attacks on itself?
But then troop transport does seem a little more reasonable. Almost like a Potemkin warship.
Ok, so clan ships like the noraff and such. Can't think of more clan assault ships at this time.
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Karagin
03/29/15 02:24 PM
70.118.139.48
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Ships can have dual roles Donkey.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/29/15 11:03 PM
76.7.225.145
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With only dual NL55s per arc, and lacking any serious speed, it would be unwise to be used either as a picket ship or in a direct combat role in general. I agree with donkey and his assessment of the ship in a troop transport role.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/30/15 06:04 AM
172.56.16.91
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Quote:
Karagin writes:
Ships can have dual roles Donkey.
Yes I totally agree with you.
This ship can be used as a troop transport and it can also be used as a target for the enemy to get some target practice in. The ship is to slow and under armed to be any threat to anything of an equal size.
Its true threat to an enemy is in the drop ships that it carries be that aerospace assault dropships, fighter carriers, or ground assault dropships or any mix of the above dropships.
My Ambassador Class Corvette has more firepower than this ship has and my ship is about a ten percent of the mass. The Ambassador Class Corvette has no hope against any warship because it was not designed to ever go up against warships. I would say that the Basilisk is the same.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Edited by His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey (03/30/15 06:15 AM)
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/30/15 06:54 AM
172.56.16.253
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I found another issue. The ship has 14 combat cargo doors where your only aloud 8.
I see no reason a warship would carry battlemechs or ground Vehicles internally. As for the infantry if they are going to be on the ship for any length of time what so ever they are going to be out right miserable since there is less than two hundred kilos for each man.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
03/30/15 08:23 PM
76.7.225.145
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He's allowed 27 bay doors for this particular design. 7 default plus one every 50k tons, rounded up.
Edited by Retry (03/30/15 08:23 PM)
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ATN082268
03/30/15 11:10 PM
69.128.58.222
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I'm sure Cray can confirm this or set me straight but I believe Strategic Operations allows Warships 8 doors plus 1 for every 100,000 tons of weight (rounded up) but you can only dedicate 8 of those doors for launching or recovery of fighters or small craft.
Personally I don't see a problem with having dedicated space for things like infantry, vehicles, etc when the warship's primary role is a transport (with a lot of docking collars); this seems especially true when you also want to dedicate space for living quarters (listed under bay personnel) to make long journeys much more pleasant.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/30/15 11:32 PM
208.54.4.248
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Why have combat drop bays for mechs and vehicles instead why not store them in standard cargo bays for their exact weight. Weight is just being wasted having dedicated vehicle and mech bays in a warship.
For example, a Locust can be put into a standard cargo bay as 20 tons of cargo instead of having a mech cubical for 150 tons.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
ATN082268
03/31/15 07:06 AM
69.128.58.222
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Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:
Why have combat drop bays for mechs and vehicles instead why not store them in standard cargo bays for their exact weight. Weight is just being wasted having dedicated vehicle and mech bays in a warship.
For example, a Locust can be put into a standard cargo bay as 20 tons of cargo instead of having a mech cubical for 150 tons.
You bring up a good point. I would hope that, for example, dedicating tonnage for a 'Mech cubicle would provide some benefit  If I had to guess, I'd say dedicating tonnage for units in a bay may make it easier to do stuff like maintain, rearm, repair and possibly deploy from a bay.
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ghostrider
03/31/15 02:45 PM
76.89.120.217
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Not sure where it was said, but I believe donkey is right about the cargo bays being used instead of the dedicated mech bays. I thought it said that the mech bay was for things like repairs and even dropping a mech.
The cargo route meant partially disassembling the mech and having to put it back together again, so no fast use of the mech or loading it.
Now as for dropping a mech from a warship makes me wonder. I would believe entering an orbit that would allow you to drop a mech would also cause the warship issues with being in an atmosphere. Maybe I am getting height confused with edge of atmosphere, since I was lead to believe mechs were normally not set up for space actions. I know the drop pods they use are able to extend their working height, But something doesn't sound right.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/31/15 04:35 PM
172.56.4.160
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You don't have to disassemble the mech to have it in a standard cargo hold. But it could take hours to days to unload it depending on what else is in the cargo hold that might be in the way to get it to a cargo door.
My Ambassador Class Corvette carries a dozen extra aerospace fighters as standard cargo. They are there for either spare parts for the active fighters or if the pilot survives combat but his fighter is rendered quickly unrepairable he can be issued one of the spare fighters and his old fighter can be put into storage for spare parts and or to be sold as scrap.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Cray
03/31/15 06:54 PM
67.8.171.23
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Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:
Why have combat drop bays for mechs and vehicles instead why not store them in standard cargo bays for their exact weight. Weight is just being wasted having dedicated vehicle and mech bays in a warship.
Good question, and one asked by lots of players over the years.
The answer is now in Strategic Operations: because if they're stored in cargo bays, they can only be unloaded like cargo. See Strategic Operations' cargo unloading rules - a 'Mech in a cargo bay is a strapped down, immobile vehicle on a pallet that will take many minutes (aerospace turns) to unload. And even longer if you're not unloading it at a spaceport with lots of cargo-handling gear.
Meanwhile, 'Mech bays (and fighter bays) include launcher features like gantries to hold a 'Mech in a combat-ready position during transport (rather than as palletized cargo) and has catapults to help spit out multiple 'Mechs and fighters per bay door per turn. That's why a 150-ton 'Mech bay can only hold 100 tons of 'Mechs - there's 50 tons of machinery in there not found in a cargo bay.
Fighter bays also have vital fighter recovery features. You can't fly into a cargo bay door, only through launch-capable doors to fighter or small craft bays.
Quote:
For example, a Locust can be put into a standard cargo bay as 20 tons of cargo instead of having a mech cubical for 150 tons.
Yes, you could do that. The Locust just couldn't be combat-dropped from orbit or unloaded in one turn, unlike a 'Mech bay.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
03/31/15 06:56 PM
67.8.171.23
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
since I was lead to believe mechs were normally not set up for space actions. I know the drop pods they use are able to extend their working height, But something doesn't sound right.
'Mechs can operate in space, they just really suck at it. They're limited to engaging targets in the same hex, have little maneuverability (if they have jump jets) and less fuel. Also, see my response to Donkey about the need for 'Mech bays.
You folks are asking good questions. It's taken quite a while for BT to finally answer them.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
04/01/15 01:16 AM
76.89.120.217
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If I remember right, they use magnetic clamps in the feet.
I know some of the novels suggested a myomer strap to hold them to the hull of a station in one of the northwind highlander books.
One clarification is needed to your response cray. The same hex? Is that aerotech hex or normal land combat hex?
I know the ghost bear story of mechwarrior video game had small jets put on mechs that were used to battle on the outside of a ship. Not sure if that is covered in the regular rules.
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Cray
04/01/15 06:14 PM
67.8.171.23
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
One clarification is needed to your response cray. The same hex? Is that aerotech hex or normal land combat hex?
Aerospace hexes.
Quote:
I know the ghost bear story of mechwarrior video game had small jets put on mechs that were used to battle on the outside of a ship. Not sure if that is covered in the regular rules.
It is covered; I gave an overview in my last post. The short version is: don't do it. 'Mechs on a ship hull don't maneuver like 'Mechs on the ground. They maneuver like 'Mechs in space. See Strategic Operations for the "'Mechs...in...Spa-a-a-a-a-a-ce!" rules, as well as a fluff discussion of why it's a bad idea.
Among other things, BT doesn't have gravity control or gravity fields on its ships. So a ship that expends thrust points turns into a 750-meter tall skyscraper to the 'Mechs standing on its hull. If they're not on the nose, they fall off (magnetic clamps or not, and magnetic clamps aren't standard 'Mech equipment.)
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Retry
04/01/15 06:19 PM
76.7.225.145
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For some reason I'm thinking of the Hull Defense Partisan. Something tells me they wouldn't be very effective.
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Cray
04/01/15 06:22 PM
67.8.171.23
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Quote:
Retry writes:
For some reason I'm thinking of the Hull Defense Partisan. Something tells me they wouldn't be very effective.
That was exactly the discussion held during the review of its TRO entry. It had to be fudged to use rails on the hull of a ship.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
04/02/15 09:45 PM
76.89.120.217
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Don't ask me why, but the statement of mechs flying off a ship unless it's on the ships nose is not completely correct. Depending on where on the ship it is, and how the ship turns, they could stick or be shot off without issues. Though I can understand standing on the tip of the nose while high thrust is being performed.
Now what is a hull defense partisan? is that some sort of mobile defense platform?
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Cray
04/02/15 11:15 PM
67.8.171.23
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
Don't ask me why, but the statement of mechs flying off a ship unless it's on the ships nose is not completely correct. Depending on where on the ship it is, and how the ship turns, they could stick or be shot off without issues. Though I can understand standing on the tip of the nose while high thrust is being performed.
That's true - they do get piloting skill checks at terrible numbers related to the number of thrust points spent. It's important to remember that BT WarShips maneuver more like fighter jets and accelerate like rockets than sea-going warships. A 180-degree (3 facing) pivot in the middle of a turn can crush some 'Mechs on one side of the paper-thin hull at several Gs, while flinging others off the other side at several Gs.
The rules capture the Newtownian physics of it all by making it basically a terrible idea to put 'Mechs on the hull of a ship that plans to expend thrust points.
Quote:
Now what is a hull defense partisan? is that some sort of mobile defense platform?
It's the TR:3026 Partisan tank reworked with environmental sealing, a fusion engine, and some almost (but not quite) non-canon ability to ride on rails applied to the hulls of WarShips. (Note that no canon WarShip or space station actually possesses such rails.) Like 'Mechs in space, it can only engage targets in the same aerospace hex.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
04/03/15 02:58 AM
76.89.120.217
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So some one thought to use tanks to increase the weapons on a ship beyond the standard amount that made a few people realize it was a way to cheat?
Especially with tanks creating no heat for the ballistic and missile weapons.
I guess that would keep people from making more tanks that ride rails, like a simple thing that has anti missiles systems on it, or a clan super missile tank?
And they haven't figured out how to make mechs ballistic ammunition for something like a bombardment?
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