Retry
04/14/15 06:43 PM
76.7.225.145
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Phantom Dragoon Chopper Mk.I
Clan experimental
25 tons
BV: 1,277
Cost: 2,997,806 C-bills
Movement: 12/18 (VTOL)
Engine: 160 XL
Internal: 18
Armor: 112 (Ferro-Lamellor)
Internal Armor
Front 3 25
Right 3 25
Left 3 25
Rear 3 15
Rotor 3 2
Turret 3 20
Weapons Loc Heat
Medium Pulse Laser TU 4
Medium Pulse Laser TU 4
Small Pulse Laser TU 2
Equipment Loc
Targeting Computer BD
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/14/15 07:18 PM
208.54.83.134
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Extremely expensive for a VTOL.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Drasnighta
04/14/15 08:23 PM
198.53.98.65
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Eh, C-Bill cost is irrelevent when it comes to ClanTech most of the time, anyway...
For them, if ts worthwhile, it will be done.
For anyone wanting itin the Inner Sphere, let's face it, you're paying a Premium regardless, since its probably Salvage or Stolen...
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/15/15 01:20 AM
172.56.20.27
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Quote:
Drasnighta writes:
Eh, C-Bill cost is irrelevent when it comes to ClanTech most of the time, anyway...
No not really, the Clans detest wast and the C-Bill cost represents resources expended.
The warrior class might not care about money in its self, unlike the other Clan classes, but they do care about resources expended and money represents resources.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Reiter
04/15/15 11:50 AM
45.48.53.140
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Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:
No not really, the Clans detest wast and the C-Bill cost represents resources expended.
The warrior class might not care about money in its self, unlike the other Clan classes, but they do care about resources expended and money represents resources.
As clans have about 20%-50% more firepower (lasers, PPC), half the density/crit space of components (endo steel, ferro armor, half weight missile standard launchers), half the weight on weapons, and yet they take on over whelming odds while bidding down the "cost" but somehow manage to win most fights "canonically" with bipedal machines that 1) nearly all have XL engines and move at top speed if possible 2) Have nearly max Omni pod weight from endo/ferro/XL/DBL-heatsinks.....I don't think they are really wasting anything, since they can afford to use nearly all that tech, replace it, and just replace pilots since they only seem to think that is the biggest cost. On the other hand, this is from the 3050ish and invasion onwards, which always kind of irked me....cause you could make a 45 ton summoner that was slower with nearly the same fire power without an XL engine. Now, if the clans had used less XL engines and just swamped the IS with overpowered mediums and used heavy/assault for breakthrough....cost wouldn't matter since a slower medium clan mech (about equal to an IS heavy) would allow them to have larger numbers with better weapons and pilot skill wouldn't of matter that much, than the entire history could of been rewritten, cost and waste be damned lol
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Cray
04/15/15 06:21 PM
67.8.171.23
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Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:
Quote:
Drasnighta writes:
Eh, C-Bill cost is irrelevent when it comes to ClanTech most of the time, anyway...
No not really, the Clans detest wast and the C-Bill cost represents resources expended.
I understand your point, but the Clans' dislike of waste does not apply to prices or even commonsense. Look at a Clan TRO: more XLs and ammo-using weapons than you shake a chicken at.
Even when the Blood Spirits designed "low-resource" 'Mechs when they got pushed back to one planet, their concept of "low resources" was an XL assault 'Mech with gobs of ammo-guzzling weapons. A ton of plain LRM ammo is incredibly expensive stuff, like 3 times an Inner Sphere MechWarrior's annual salary, but Clan LRMs are almost certainly going to be Artemis (x2 cost).
The Clans contain their costs and resource expenditures by giving their civilians miserable, short lives (54 years on average for Laborers).
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
04/15/15 08:04 PM
76.89.120.217
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First off, if the clans really concerned with avoiding waste within their forces, battles that are close to even with another clan is one of the most stupidest ways to avoid waste. You are guaranteed to take heavy losses, if not possibly lose. They consider honor to be more important then losing the machines and warriors in that same sort of battle. Otherwise, having gang fire on the enemy is the best way to kill them without losing much on your side.
Also, if you look at waste in the clans, it is more based on non military actions then not. With the exception of vehicles, most military units are very efficient. Well for at least a short amount of time. Ammunition weapons are used since they believe in short fights. When you aren't worried about fighting for more then 20 minutes or so, (average ammo supplies), ammunition dependent weapons are better then lasers, for the most part. Not worrying about reloading from a battle allows that sort of thinking. Some ammunition dependent units tended to do very well in most cases that were set for short battles, without worrying about running out of ammo.
And for efficiency, xl's are great to allow you more weapons and heat sinks, and even armor. Losing a torso does not automatically remove the mech from the battle. Only the ruling cast, it the warrior themselves, prejudice against vehicles cause the crappy designs. But even that did not stop some tanks from being killing machines.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/15/15 11:57 PM
172.56.14.143
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
First off, if the clans really concerned with avoiding waste within their forces, battles that are close to even with another clan is one of the most stupidest ways to avoid waste. You are guaranteed to take heavy losses, if not possibly lose. They consider honor to be more important then losing the machines and warriors in that same sort of battle. Otherwise, having gang fire on the enemy is the best way to kill them without losing much on your side.
Your forgetting one thing if one does it then everyone else will do it also until your using weapons of mass destruction that will sterilize entire planets of all life.
Their system of biding down forces is the least wasteful even though what is left is at great risk of being lost to destruction. A unit bid away cant be damaged or use expendable ammunition.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
04/16/15 04:15 AM
76.89.120.217
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I do agree that limiting the units used can limit the amount of damage either side suffers.
Honor would dictate you try and use the least amount of force to win an objective, otherwise it would be disgraceful.
Now you also need to understand, that a unit that is bid away can still be sent into battle. The commander that is forced to add in forces that were part of his bid before he won, but it bring great shame upon that commander. It also reflects badly on that whole unit, even the ones that did not participate in the least.
I believe that was not only in the novels of keresky's return but also in the more adventures of the black widows.
Think about what the smoke jaguars did to Edo Bay. They used an orbital bombardment to destroy a city. Granted, that is the very rare exception, but it does happen.
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Retry
04/16/15 08:29 PM
76.7.225.145
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With the ability to survive an AC/20 hit from any location, the speed to avoid said hit, and an armament that can bring a deadly punch on conventional hovercraft, VTOLs, infantry, and light mechs, I wouldn't exactly call one a waste.
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