Demolisher III Gauss

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happyguy49
07/26/15 04:48 AM
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Demolisher III Gauss
DM3G

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 20,692,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,600

Power Plant: 300 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 32.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Armor: Hardened
Armament:
1 Imp. Heavy Gauss Rifle
1 Silver Bullet Gauss
1 Small X-Pulse Laser
1 Laser Anti-Missile System
1 C3 Computer (Slave)
Manufacturer:
Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

Overview:
Designed in the spirit of older Demolisher versions, the "Demolisher III Gauss"
is meant to solve the primary vulnerability of the ancient Demolisher: the
short range of its massive cannons, leading to the serious risk of being
flanked by opponents with longer-range weaponry.


A massive Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle punches gigantic holes in the armor of its
enemies; the rarer Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle fires supersonic clusters of
ferrous metal to find those holes and damage vital internal systems. Both
primary weapons have approximately double the effective range of the large-bore
autocannons of the centuries-old Demolisher. A LAMS offers good point-defense
against missiles, while a Small X-Pulse Laser provides some anti-infantry
defense. Both secondary weapons are ammunition independent and make efficient
use of the XL fusion engine's heat system.


The Demolisher III Gauss is very well armored, with 21 tons of Hardened Armor
significantly reducing the likelihood of penetrating critical damage to its
internals.


================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 50 points 10.00
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 14.50
Cruise MP: 3
Flank MP: 5
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Control Equipment: 5.00
Lift Equipment: 0.00
Turret: 2.00
Armor: Hardened AV - 168 21.00

Armor
Factor
Front 42
Left/Right 30/30
Turret 44
Rear 22

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Spaces Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imp. Heavy Gauss Rifle FR 2 1 20.00
Silver Bullet Gauss T 1 1 15.00
Laser Anti-Missile System T 7 1 1.50
Small X-Pulse Laser T 3 1 1.00
C3 Computer (Slave) BD 0 1 1.00
@Silver Bullet Gauss (24) BD - 0 3.00
@iHGR (24) BD - 0 6.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 11 Points: 16
3t 3 4 4 0 4 0 Structure: 5
Special Abilities: AMS, C3S, TUR(2/2/1), FLK 1/1/1
ghostrider
07/26/15 12:31 PM
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Doesn't the hardened armor drop top speed by one?

Is there some reason for the different types of gauss rifles? It may have been better to stick with one type though I don't know the stats for the heavy gauss. Doesn't really change the fact that the range is nice. That was always a sore point with the original.

Bumping it up to 100 tons is interesting. I would have thought keeping it the 80 tons like the original, but there are times when that is not possible.

Though I just realized the heavy guass is NOT turret mounted. I would think that is a mistake. 24 shots with it, and have to reposition the tank to use them for the heavier gauss rifle sounds harsh. I know you would be moving, but I would think giving up 2 tons of ammo for the turret would be a better option. With it just forward firing, I would think you will never use close to half that ammo.
Karagin
07/26/15 02:06 PM
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Overall it has the most going for it. Pricey but you are getting what you pay for. This one I can see being used by the Lyrans and Davion more then some of the other factions.

Ghostrider the Heavy Gauss Rifles can't be mounted in the turrets, that is a rules issue. Doesn't make much sense really but hey TPTB seem to think it is a balance thing.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
happyguy49
07/26/15 07:31 PM
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IIRC, hardened armor only drops your MP by one ON MECHS; on vehicles its only negative is the +1 to piloting skill rolls. Which, in my mind, should make hardened armor the default for wheeled and tracked vehicles! What sucks about vehicles is the ease of getting non-penetrating crits. The -2 on the crit roll made possible by hardened armor makes wheeled/tracked tanks MUCH more durable.

It sucks about HGR and iHGR not being turret mountable : ( it's like on Mechs where they can't be arm mounted. (they should have a rule that a superheavy tank CAN put an HGR or iHGR on a turret, like how a superheavy mech is allowed to mount heavy gausses in the arms where a 100ton and lighter mech cant.)

I used two different kinds of gauss rifle on the Demolisher III for the same idea as that Lyran Demolisher II, the one with the LB-20x and Ultra AC/20... i.e, one big gun punches holes, the other big gun is a massive shotgun to shoot crit-finding pellets into those holes.

(I think the Silver Bullet is underutilized... range of a gauss rifle, -1 to hit, but as many as 15 individual 1-point location rolls! Also doesn't count toward Targeting Computer weight, so it pairs up well with energy weapons.)
Retry
07/27/15 10:30 PM
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Happyguy is correct, the MP penalty is mech specific. If you have access to hardened armor for your vehicles and would otherwise use standard armor (or special rules that makes vehicles much more durable) then you may as well take hardened armor. Only weaknesses I can think of is re-engineered lasers which are rather inefficient, so you aren't likely to find those regardless. And yes, the SBGR is one of the most underutilized weapons in the game. That and the Plasma Rifle are both weapons you can even strap onto Clan battlemechs and have it fit a very valuable role.

The design is extremely solid, and would be especially scary with some of the advanced rules enabled.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/28/15 12:24 AM
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Oh I don't see what is all scary about this. I can send a flight of my 15 ton VTALs after it and you will lose a major investment. Yes I will take losses from some lucky hits but that is nothing compared to the big loss when this tank goes down.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ATN082268
07/28/15 01:02 AM
69.128.58.222

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Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:

Oh I don't see what is all scary about this. I can send a flight of my 15 ton VTALs after it and you will lose a major investment. Yes I will take losses from some lucky hits but that is nothing compared to the big loss when this tank goes down.



It is rare indeed when you know the exact composition of an enemy force, exactly where/when they will be to engage them and also be able to construct (literally) a customized force to tackle them. In general, do your scenarios use cost to construct forces for each side and do you opponents let you have the tactical advantages as I have outlined above?
Akirapryde2006
07/28/15 01:19 AM
71.100.132.249

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Quote:
ATN082268 writes:

Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:

Oh I don't see what is all scary about this. I can send a flight of my 15 ton VTALs after it and you will lose a major investment. Yes I will take losses from some lucky hits but that is nothing compared to the big loss when this tank goes down.



It is rare indeed when you know the exact composition of an enemy force, exactly where/when they will be to engage them and also be able to construct (literally) a customized force to tackle them. In general, do your scenarios use cost to construct forces for each side and do you opponents let you have the tactical advantages as I have outlined above?



Not to speak out of turn but you are mistaken ATN.....

It is not rare to know such information. In fact it is the nature of military intelligence to know these kinds of things before the military goes in to battle. This way a military commander can construct his force and plan his tactics to most effectively face his enemy. I know the jokes about Military Intelligence but the truth is we haven't won a war without the help of Military Intelligence.


Edited by Akirapryde2006 (07/28/15 01:20 AM)
ghostrider
07/28/15 01:57 AM
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Anything can be neutralized when you know what is there. One issue that seems to be missing is how many vtols are needed to take out a unit that might be with said unit?

And with war, enemy composition is not known initially. That is why scouts are sent out on recon duties. It is why the clans had such an advantage over the inner sphere when they first showed up. The lrm armed unit you first encountered is a laser boat today.
Without the intel, you run into issues with countering it.

And the one I just send this to counter isn't something that just happens. So you have the forces with you when you encounter the enemy?
Having a McKenna warship with a pair of vengeance carriers would allow me to blow away what forces you put in the air. The other 4 dropships would allow me to have the Excalibur drop a combine arms battalion on the ground with a pair overlords for the rest of the mech regiment. as well as the Fortress dropship used for base security and command while on the ground.

I think not allowing the improved heavy gauss in arms or turrets is crap. If it is that powerful, then it should not have been put in the game. And since the long tom is allowed in a turret, I do not see why the improved gauss isn't. But then I don't agree with alot of the newer things they put in the game.

I said it before and will say it again. When are the coming out with the cloaking shields and capital weapons that can be mounted on a jeep with armor that would make a fleet of warships cry?
ATN082268
07/28/15 03:35 AM
69.128.58.222

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<<It is rare indeed when you know the exact composition of an enemy force, exactly where/when they will be to engage them and also be able to construct (literally) a customized force to tackle them. In general, do your scenarios use cost to construct forces for each side and do you opponents let you have the tactical advantages as I have outlined above?>>

<<Not to speak out of turn but you are mistaken ATN.....

It is not rare to know such information. In fact it is the nature of military intelligence to know these kinds of things before the military goes in to battle. This way a military commander can construct his force and plan his tactics to most effectively face his enemy. I know the jokes about Military Intelligence but the truth is we haven't won a war without the help of Military Intelligence.>>


Are you talking about the Battletech Universe or real life? In any case, while Military Intelligence can certainly help in planning, it is absolute fantasy land to think you will *normally* have a virtually exact enemy roster of forces, be able to engage the enemy at an optimum time/ location of your choosing and have the friendly forces on tap to perfectly tailor a force to most effectively engage the enemy.

For the sake of argument, let's say you are basically right and I am wrong. Before you get too sidetracked into Military Intelligence (in the real world and/or the Battletech Universe), I don't think you'll find many real world Battletech players willing to grant you all the advantages of perfect intelligence, a battlefield of your choosing and a complete customization of your forces to be used against them. Just saying...
Retry
07/28/15 05:11 AM
76.7.232.58

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

Anything can be neutralized when you know what is there. One issue that seems to be missing is how many vtols are needed to take out a unit that might be with said unit?

And with war, enemy composition is not known initially. That is why scouts are sent out on recon duties. It is why the clans had such an advantage over the inner sphere when they first showed up. The lrm armed unit you first encountered is a laser boat today.
Without the intel, you run into issues with countering it.

And the one I just send this to counter isn't something that just happens. So you have the forces with you when you encounter the enemy?
Having a McKenna warship with a pair of vengeance carriers would allow me to blow away what forces you put in the air. The other 4 dropships would allow me to have the Excalibur drop a combine arms battalion on the ground with a pair overlords for the rest of the mech regiment. as well as the Fortress dropship used for base security and command while on the ground.

I think not allowing the improved heavy gauss in arms or turrets is crap. If it is that powerful, then it should not have been put in the game. And since the long tom is allowed in a turret, I do not see why the improved gauss isn't. But then I don't agree with alot of the newer things they put in the game.

I said it before and will say it again. When are the coming out with the cloaking shields and capital weapons that can be mounted on a jeep with armor that would make a fleet of warships cry?


AFAIK, in the BTU, people have troubles gathering intelligence, with the only way to physically get ships to places by waiting for your jumpship charging thingy to absorb the sun or something.

There's both a gameplay and logical reason for not allowing the HGR in turrets yet allowing Long Toms. The first is that allowing Long Tom Artillery Pieces to be turret-mounted requires much more tonnage, necessitating a bigger vehicle for an advantage that isn't really all that big, while HGRs and iHGRs would be borderline overpowered if they could be turret mounted (More damage than a AC/20, more range than a AC/20.), and the restriction forces you to be more creative if you wish to deploy the weapon. The second is highlighted in the fluff:
"The recoil from the weapon is so great that the rifle cannot be mounted in a vehicle's turret or 'Mech's arms, as firing the rifle would essentially rip it off. A 'Mech firing the rifle may even be knocked down by the recoil."

With this fluff, clearly the Heavy Gauss Rifle is clearly at the edge of practicalness for Mechs and Vehicles alike. And honestly, a 250 kilogram projectile being propelled at around Mach 10 would generate an incredible amount of recoil. The normal gauss rifle doesn't rip off turrets, but it's also not as heavy.

As for the Long Tom, it fires projectiles that takes several turns to cross several mapsheets, making the gun a low-velocity howitzer. I'd imagine that it has a muzzle velocity less than Mach 2. That's not nearly as much recoil as a Heavy Gauss Rifle would generate, so you'd be in the clear as far as using it safely on a turret. Besides, turreted artillery guns have been used in real life. See the 105mm Sherman and the KV-2 for examples.

As for the last part of your post, please stop it with the technological "slippery slope" fallacy. The new technology changes aren't nearly as bad as you make it sound.
Retry
07/28/15 05:19 AM
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Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:

Oh I don't see what is all scary about this. I can send a flight of my 15 ton VTALs after it and you will lose a major investment. Yes I will take losses from some lucky hits but that is nothing compared to the big loss when this tank goes down.


I'd have to question the wisdom of deploying 3 to 6 helicopters (in other words, one "flight") to attack something that happens to have one of the best anti-aircraft guns in the game. Especially when, considering the C3 slave system, it probably won't be operating alone.
Karagin
07/28/15 06:22 AM
70.118.139.48

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The only time folks have issue with getting Intel is when TPTB want it to happen ie the Jihad and WoB.

This vehicle suffers the same issues as does every vehicle, mobility crits kill it. Yes it has harden armor, but that won't save it in the long run. A swarm of VTOLs can kill this fast and cheaply.

And no the SB Gauss is not the best anti-craft gun in the game, the best is the LB-X series of weapons and the very best is another aircraft.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
happyguy49
07/28/15 07:38 AM
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...I hadn't even thought of VTOLs. Honestly I feel like killing VTOLs is a job for fighters or on-board artillery or artillery cannons (just shoot at its hex, don't bother trying to directly shoot the fast-moving little ****) . That said, this design DOES have an LB-X cannon! That's what the Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle is. It is a "LB-15x", with a range of 22! And you can use it in a flak role. From TO:

"The Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle operates under the same rules as an LB-X Autocannon using cluster munitions (using the 15 column of the Cluster Hits Table), including the ability to be used as a flak weapon (see p. 114, TW) and the inability to make use of a targeting computer."
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/28/15 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Retry writes:

Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:

Oh I don't see what is all scary about this. I can send a flight of my 15 ton VTALs after it and you will lose a major investment. Yes I will take losses from some lucky hits but that is nothing compared to the big loss when this tank goes down.


I'd have to question the wisdom of deploying 3 to 6 helicopters (in other words, one "flight") to attack something that happens to have one of the best anti-aircraft guns in the game. Especially when, considering the C3 slave system, it probably won't be operating alone.



I was talking about a heck lot more than a half strength (3) to full strength (6) squadron of VTAL's. I was talking of a full flight aka 20 (3 squadrons + 2 command) VTAL's.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Retry
07/28/15 06:05 PM
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@Karagin
You can't do much about the mobility crits except position yourself well in your terrain so you don't need mobility. If you can hull down in prepared terrain, your sides and front get a nasty to-hit modifier (which can combine with woods) and you'll be immune to mobility crits from those locations as all of the shots that do happen to connect will hit the turret (which is almost as well armored as my Nephilidae's center torso).

First of all, I said the SBGR is one of the best AA weapons in the game. Those who've used it numerous times realize it's definitely better than any of the LB-X Autocannons in this role.

LB 2-X LB 5-X LB 10-X LB 20-X SBGR
2 5 10 20 15 Damage
1 1 2 6 1 Heat
4 3 0 0 2 MinRange
9/18/27 7/14/21 6/12/18 4/8/12 7/15/22 Range
4 5 6 11 7 Crits
6 8 11 14 15 Tonnage

Two LB 5-Xs have inferior hitting power to the SBGR, produce more heat, have inferior range brackets, require more crits and more tonnage.
One LB 10-X is lighter and one crit smaller than the SBGR, but produces more heat, has shorter range brackets, and deals less damage.
One LB 20-X is one ton lighter and deals a little bit more damage, but it produces much more heat, uses four more crits, and has far shorter range brackets, making it a short-range deterrent at best.
The magic BB is the lightest and least crit intensive weapon out of all of them while having the longest range. Unfortunately, the lack of stopping power really lets it down, making it unreliable as an anti-aircraft gun.
Of the one-pellet antiaircraft weapon designs, the SBGR is the most effective of all. Unfortunately, none of them can engage a helicopter or aircraft design that uses ferro-lamellor armor effectively, so you'd have to get creative fighting those.

@Happyguy, now that I think of it, the weapon arrangement reminds me of the M3 Lee. Powerful gun hull mounted, less powerful gun turret mounted. Also, I don't think simply firing at a hex that the VTOL is over would be effective at destroying them. After all, they do fly. Fighters can hunt VTOLs to an extent, but their limited radius-of-turn can be exploited. VTOLs can also hide behind friendly AA which tends to shred fighters.

@Donkey, I'm sure you could try to swarm just about every asset in the game with lightweight VTOLs if you had enough of them. That'd be true with and against just about anything in the game. I'd like to see your 15 tonner design, as my quick search only found one of your clan-based 11 tonners.
CrayModerator
07/28/15 06:05 PM
50.88.145.42

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Quote:
Karagin writes:
This vehicle suffers the same issues as does every vehicle, mobility crits kill it. Yes it has harden armor, but that won't save it in the long run. A swarm of VTOLs can kill this fast and cheaply.



Ain't that true. The vehicle battles my group has been playing thanks to Mad Max: Fury Road have degenerated into short, ugly battles of crit-hunting designs. SRMs and LBXs rule the day.

Quote:
And no the SB Gauss is not the best anti-craft gun in the game, the best is the LB-X series of weapons and the very best is another aircraft.



Yes, and LBXs chew the crap out of VTOLs. I ended another player's use of cheap VTOLs whether we were doing BV- or C-Bill-limited games with some cheap LBX tanks.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/28/15 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Retry writes:

@Donkey, I'm sure you could try to swarm just about every asset in the game with lightweight VTOLs if you had enough of them. That'd be true with and against just about anything in the game. I'd like to see your 15 tonner design, as my quick search only found one of your clan-based 11 tonners.



I was in error I meant to say my 11 ton VTALs, with the three medium lasers.

http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/150980/an/0/page/26#150980
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!


Edited by His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey (07/28/15 08:38 PM)
ghostrider
07/28/15 11:45 PM
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Turrets do take crits as well. Even turret locked can be a pain. But the move ones aren't as bad.
Only real issue is the use of artillery for hulled down units. But that goes back to having the items when needed, not just counter in a conversation.

From the little I have seen with air units, the best defense is having your own to take them out. Aerofighters tend to do well in that department, though they are expensive as hell to replaces when the plow fields.

I dislike the fact the game seems to want to be rid of the ac's. Now the gauss rifles have the range and punch that they never did, with the only issue being weight. The lack of heat makes it that much worse. Granted, the ac's are horribly outmatched by energy weapons, so this does seem to counter that a little. I guess the next step in the evolution of the gauss rifle is the rapid fire. Is that in the next upgrade?
Retry
07/29/15 01:44 AM
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The closest thing we have to a rapid fire gauss is the HAG series, which is closer to a LB-X gauss rifle.

That's a good little disposable chopper, but having a lot of disposable vehicles creates a bit of a logistical strain for the pilots, equipment when they break down, mechanics, replacement pilots. Helicopter pilots are not as simple to train as tank pilots. As for "life is cheap", well, skilled life is still in demand as you need the men to make your technology effective. Proper AA batteries and LB X turrets (including the 20 thanks to the short range of these aircraft), as well as the large pulse laser, will destroy these in droves as big as they come. The tank is fairly vulnerable, but not as vulnerable as you'd like to believe, considering the hardened armor and a turreted weapon that just so happens to be perfectly tailored to destroying this kind of asset.
ghostrider
07/29/15 03:59 AM
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Actually, that is a good point. Skilled operators are needed, as you have to hit something in order to have a chance of taking it out.
So can you ram a vtol into a ground target?

And I guess it's just me, but I lose more vehicles to crits then actual losing all armor on one side and destroying all the crits.
As for pumping out the units, it is a hell of a lot cheaper when you have a company that makes them, though getting the supplies to keep it going can be a pain.

And this has gotten away from the subject of the tank.
Didn't someone post a dual silver bullet gauss partisan type tank?
Might be interesting to make a 4 gun unit for defense. Wouldn't move quickly, but then it might be mroe of a semi mobile pillbox.
happyguy49
08/09/15 11:55 AM
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Many people have mentioned the high cost of the unit, so I fiddled with a few things. Dropping the movement to 2/3 and using a Fission engine cuts the cost by over half. (can't use a Fuel Cell, either type of Heavy Gauss Rifle requires a fusion or fission engine.) Switch the LAMS to a regular AMS and removing one ton each of gauss ammo (still 16/20 shots, plenty) enables carrying an Angel ECM really boosting defense. Cost, $9,492,000. Now it is as cheap as a 3025 era assault mech, but could realistically defeat several times its cost in enemy mechs before the huge amount of hardened armor gets penetrated. I'd like to price a version with a supercharger but the skunkwerks vehicle program incorrectly doesn't let you use superchargers on any vehicle? Oh well. Thoughts?
Demolisher III Gauss DM3G

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 9,492,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,368

Power Plant: 200 Fission Engine
Cruise Speed: 21.6 km/h
Flanking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Armor: Hardened
Armament:
1 Imp. Heavy Gauss Rifle
1 Silver Bullet Gauss
1 Small X-Pulse Laser
1 Angel ECM
1 Anti-Missile System
Manufacturer:
Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 50 points 10.00
Engine: Fission Engine 200 15.00
Cruise MP: 2
Flank MP: 3
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 5 0.00
Control Equipment: 5.00
Lift Equipment: 0.00
Turret: 2.00
Armor: Hardened AV - 172 21.50

Armor
Factor
Front 42
Left/Right 34/34
Turret 34
Rear 28

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Spaces Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imp. Heavy Gauss Rifle FR 2 1 20.00
Silver Bullet Gauss T 1 1 15.00
Angel ECM T 0 1 2.00
Anti-Missile System T 1 1 0.50
Small X-Pulse Laser T 3 1 1.00
@Anti-Missile System (12) BD - 0 1.00
@Silver Bullet Gauss (16) BD - 0 2.00
@iHGR (20) BD - 0 5.00
ghostrider
08/09/15 12:41 PM
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I would suggest moving a ton of ammo from the ihgr to the silver bullet, since you are more likely to use the turret more often then the front facing gauss. But this doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Not that it needs to be done, but could this weapons package fit on a smaller chassis?
Cost is a factor for reality, but unless you are actually dealing with funds, the game is not really that caring about how much something costs. It is just a means or excuse on why things like militia's don't have the numbers to prevent simple raids.
Retry
08/09/15 05:53 PM
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Well... It's cheaper, but now it's just too slow.
RockJock
08/10/15 01:12 AM
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As a MBT for a RCT or line unit I'm ok with it. It will be a drain on the suppy train with the Hardened Armor and SB ammo, but I could see it fitting, especially in the "modern" hodgepodge of tech. As a militia design it just doesn't fit for me. If I'm a militia commander I will field 2 platoons(2 Demolithers, 2 Partisans, 2 Partisan LRM and 2 Partisan AC2 just for kicks) of 80 ton ICE tanks instead of one of these and still have money left over for some spotters, either light hovers or hidden infantry. The ICE tanks are easier to maintain (espeically with parts compatibility), plus can be broken into two platoons if needed. Sure, they are much more fragile, but if we are talking militia with prepared postions the extra durabilty isn't as great, and modern ammo gives even more versatility to the ICE clunkers.

If you use militia equipment more modern then the succession wars it gets even worse.
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