happyguy49
08/14/15 12:43 PM
98.30.242.159
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Rifleman IV
Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Mixed
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X-A
Production Year: 3150
Cost: 25,692,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 3,416
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
6 (CL) Large Pulse Lasers
1 Radical Heat Sink
1 C3 Computer (Slave)
1 ECM Suite
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
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Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 152 points 5.00
Internal Locations: 4 LT, 3 RT
Engine: XL Engine 300 9.50
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: (CL) Double Heat Sink 21(42) 11.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 HD, 3 LT, 3 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL
Gyro: Compact 4.50
Cockpit: Small 2.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 307 19.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 47
Center Torso (rear) 15
L/R Torso 21 32
L/R Torso (rear) 10
L/R Arm 17 34
L/R Leg 21 42
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Radical Heat Sink CT 0 3 4.00
C3 Computer (Slave) CT 0 1 1.00
ECM Suite RT 0 1 1.00
3 (CL) Large Pulse Lasers RA 30 6 18.00
A.E.S. RA - 4 3.00
3 (CL) Large Pulse Lasers LA 30 6 18.00
A.E.S. LA - 4 3.00
Free Critical Slots: 0
Six clan large pulse lasers, with AES (more efficient in this instance than a TC), -3 to hit at all ranges. With the radical heat sink system you can safely alpha-strike most of the time, going back to volley-fire to cool down and not burn up the radical heat sink system. C3 slave to be a kickass fire support unit to lancemates, ideally with such extreme accuracy (with average gunnery this thing could move at flank speed and still only need to roll 3 to hit) doing 60 points of damage every turn. Maximum armor and ECM is a plus; it could be a good bodyguard mech for a (C3 master toting, command-console having) command mech.
Fluff-wise this would be an expensive but very effective Republic or Great House design, or made by the Sea Foxes or a great big Inner Sphere megacorporation for general export; only in the Jihad or Dark Ages or beyond because of the mixed-tech.
My favorite book assault is the Hellstar, this "Rifleman IV" can do as much damage but much much more accurately! Thoughts?
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Retry
08/14/15 05:41 PM
76.7.232.58
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Interesting design, although I can't say I'm a fan of the RHS.
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Karagin
08/14/15 07:06 PM
70.118.139.48
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Munchy given the C3 and the Pulse Lasers, and its' weight. It's a Min/Max mech, nothing special and it will draw all of the fire on the board, since no sane player will allow it last more then a few turns.
As an in-universe mech, I don't see any one actually building it, if you look at the canon mechs, they each have something going for them and they have a lot going against them and it's a balance issue. No one mech is top dog and no one mech is worse of the litter.
This one has max armor, almost enough heat sinks to alpha all day long, then you have C3 Slave, shoot why not stealth armor as well since you have the mech being mixed tech and you have the ECM already.
The ability to do tons of damage doesn't make for a good mech, again look at the book mechs, it's about balance, but if your group likes to fight god machines then have with that style of play.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
08/15/15 12:53 AM
76.7.232.58
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C3, Targeting Computers, and Large Pulses. Fairly munchy, especially with 6 of them. These systems do make sense for what is essentially a development of an anti-aircraft Mech. The Rifleman IIC does the same concept on a much lighter 65 ton chassis, with maximum armor, 3/5/3 movement profile, and enough heatsinks to fire its 4 LPLs continuously in a cold environment. What you say about drawing fire would be true for just about any other 100 tonner going the "walking gunboat" route.
Can't disagree about no one actually being able to built these. Mix-and-max tech isn't something you can mass produce and you need to use technologies available to you. Putting a Mighty 88 on an IS-1 with .50 cal Browning backups ensures a design cannot be more than a 1-off field modification. Yet I can't agree with the other parts either. The Mad Cat A doesn't have much of anything going against them, the Daishi A doesn't either. The Jenner X and C3 are both solid designs with more going for them than not. Archer 5R is similar in that they have more going for than against them, if slightly thinly armored. Cicada 3P is another very good IS spec design. Basically the blanket statement of "canon mechs are designed to have a lot of flaws" isn't true, it's just spotty with some very good designs and some very not-good designs.
Stealth Armor will not fit on this design for numerous reasons. The first one is critical space; it has 0 free crit slots left, and even if it had the 7(?) necessary the guns are positioned in such a way that the system wouldn't fit anyways. The second is that the extra 10 heat points would further throw this design out of wack. The third is that the C3 system cannot work with stealth armor. What's up with you and stealth systems anyways? I think I've only seen you say something positive about stealth on ground assets when it was mounted on an Urbie, and that seemed fairly tongue-in-cheek.
The Mech does not have enough heat sinks to alpha strike all day long. This can only alpha strike every other turn safely (in which case it can use 4 of 6 lasers) and there's still a 1 in 36 chance to break the radical heat sinks. Try to alpha strike more often, and you either get stuck with 20 or so extra heat points that you have to sink, or run a greatly increased risk of breaking the radical heat sinks. Your luck won't hold forever, and when they break (or get shot up) you basically have a slightly more accurate Rifleman IIC without jump jets.
For a non-canon high-tech mech, it does have clear flaws. The weapons are all mounted in the arms, making it vulnerable to loss half or all of its firepower on lucky 12 hits, or simply by attrition. The C3 won't work in the presence of a hostile AECM suite, and the lack of any anti-infantry weapons while being slow makes the mech vulnerable to infantry, especially against advanced types of PBIs and swarm-capable elites. Having an all-energy setup, anything with laser-reflective armor will be extremely resilient. I happen to have an 85 tonner that would absolutely wreck this alleged "min-maxed" mech due to this trait, for example.
The book mechs vary greatly, from Mad Cats to Charger. Some aren't great, some really are. For a top-tier Mech, this is a very powerful design, but it's not unbeatable from other top-tier mechs. There's no such thing as not min-maxing, or everything's min-maxed, even if what you're minimizing is efficiency and what you're maximizing is fluff or the other way around.
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ghostrider
08/15/15 02:43 AM
76.89.121.69
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It would be effective for a short while, then anything with an er(large laser/ppc) gauss rifle, lrm, ac 2 would make it a death trap.
As with all ultimate ideas, it can be countered. A pair of puma would be enough, and it would take a LOOONG time, room and open space, but they would take it down.
I am not a fan of the mixed tech base as it makes me feels wrong. Not a fan of stealth armor either.
Since the game really doesn't deal much with costs or worry about materials, trying to lighten it up probably wouldn't be worth it.
Though a faster version might be something to see.
Still a good design for say short ranged arena combat. Anything at lrm or less to start and you got it made.
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Retry
08/15/15 02:45 AM
76.7.232.58
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They're clan large pulse lasers. LRMs have a whopping 1 hex advantage over them, not exactly an ideal margin-of-error.
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ghostrider
08/15/15 10:40 AM
76.89.121.69
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No, they aren't but when you have archers and lrm carriers you do with what you have. Even hunters and such.
And since you are talking all eras, the elrm would fit into this catagor as well.
Still a very dangerous design for up close. It is very much the type of unit that fits with the original demolisher. If you had the shot, you did what you could to take it out first.
Though it does make me wonder when they will finally come out with a physical combat move to allow units with hand actuators to grab a mechs arms like this and nullify their attacks.
But I don't understand your statement about mix and match technology.
Mix-and-max tech isn't something you can mass produce and you need to use technologies available to you.
The radical heat sink and c3 is the only thing that looks like inner sphere. The aes I'm not sure of. The c3 would fit into a pod and easy enough to use on a omni mech. I could see this being massed produced especially in the crossroads scenario.
This is definitely a mech that could take on your 100 tonners with a very good chance of removing them from the field. You cloaking style systems would give you a some advantage, but once it is damaged, you would be hurting. Yeah, the hardened armor makes it that much harder, but it doesn't stop it entirely.
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Karagin
08/15/15 06:43 PM
70.118.139.48
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Retry you are assuming that the other side will know how to fight against this mech, and that is not always the case. Many do not know that AECM will jam C3 systems, in fact many don't know you can jam ECM with other ECM working in an counter role.
The Stealth comment was not something I was suggesting, it was more of why not go that route if possible, might want to read it again, since we already have a munchy mech as it is.
And your point to counter mine, about flaws shows that they do have flaws since they aren't built to be the end all of everything they face, thank you for point out as well though, I do enjoy that you took the time to explain it out.
The flaws this mech has are not going to be noticed till after it has inflicted it's damage and possible taken out few of the other side. Yes it's weapons are in the arms, then again so are the vast majority of mechs both canon and non-canon. And you are not understanding or you are trying to start another tit for tat argument, you know what I mean about min-max and we see it a lot from power players, the whole, here let's use the best of the best and then want to have the best pilot skills and gunnery skills, so let's not rehash that argument again, thanks.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
08/15/15 11:08 PM
76.7.232.58
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If the other side doesn't use advantages available to them because they don't know how to completely and effectively utilize the equipment available, their ignorance is hardly my problem (though sometimes it is my weapon).
In Paragraph 3, I've explained exactly why stealth armor simply cannot be fitted onto this mech.
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Karagin
08/16/15 10:09 AM
70.118.139.48
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And you missed the point, yet again, with my comment on the stealth armor.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
08/16/15 10:31 AM
76.7.232.58
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I understand your point, you find this gun platform to be incredibly munchy. It's still not a possible route and the "stealth armor" stuff is completely irrelevant.
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ghostrider
08/16/15 12:48 PM
76.89.121.69
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There is not enough criticals for stealth. Yes we get that. Karagin mentioned it as sarcasm to increase the munchiness of the unit.
Just like if they would have said add a partial wing to it.
They need to put something in the game to make the techs have issues working together to remove this whole line of thought. The best of both worlds without any of the downfalls. Or just make it so there is only new tech and everyone has the same level of old tech, ie everything is clan tech except the newer stuff.
The unit itself it set to do maximum damage each round. With the combo weapons/targeting, it is set for min/max configuration. Maybe this is a good mech to wade into infantry with...
It is an interesting design that does show there are mechs designs that are why certain items should not have been used as such, or had an advantage that was greater then it should have been. +1 instead of +2. Targeting comp should not have worked with something with 'micro motors' that move the weapons to increase the ability to hit. But the total +3 was something they seem to think was ok for abuse. If not for the innerspheres crappy range with the pulse tech, you would have seen that become the favorite unit fighting the clans.
But this does make you wonder why they don't go back to the icbm style missiles and just wipe out a grounded dropship, or enemy encampment. Oh wait. there is no fun with that.
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Retry
08/16/15 03:25 PM
76.7.232.58
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The Partial Wing would not fit either, and the system would not provide any serious benefits to this anyways, seeing as it lacks jump jets of any sort.
Many of the advanced techologies do have disadvantages which prevents them from working together, either indirectly or directly. Null sig system produces waste heat which makes it difficult to do other functions on the mechs. C3 and Null sig systems are entirely incompatible regardless of what little innovation you create. The trick is incoporating these issues in the design stage to retain the subsystem's usefulness without compromising the mech itself, so in a way you have to design around the technology you want to incorporate to get the desired results.
If by "micro-motors" you mean the AES, they don't work with Targeting computers.
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ghostrider
08/16/15 08:54 PM
76.89.121.69
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Looks like they pulled that out of the description of the pulse laser. Any one with access to the original printing of the 3050 tro, would you look to see if they had under the pulse laser something about the laser using a micro motor system to adjust the aim of the laser to give it the increased accuracy.
The current definition is crap, since it's machine gun like firing doesn't give actually machine guns any better chances to hit.
Also doing damage because each pulse carries more power? The original said it allows the vapors of the material to dissipate some allowing the next bolt to not be defused by it.
And retry, I know there isn't crits or jets on the mech. It was meant as sarcasm. This and the improved jets should have a limited amount of use to them, but this is moving off the mech thread.
Ok. I found the copy of the original information that was pulled out of the newer editions of the 3050 tro, and I am wrong on the micro motors being there. It is possible I am getting the definition of one of the video games mixed up with it, or maybe one of the novels. I don't know.
Edited by ghostrider (08/16/15 09:14 PM)
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