Getting back into the game - which rulebook

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FrederickSteiner
06/07/15 08:54 AM
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Greetings, we played a lot of Battletech back in the 90s. We used rules up to the Battletech Compendium and Maximum Tech.

All we have left is a hoard of miniatures and the maps. What rules set should we buy?

We want to restart on a 3025 level, vehicle heavy at that, probably going up to 3039.

Is the Total Warfare book a realistic start point if you have played a lot 20 years ago? Or did concepts change in a way, that we'd need the BattleTech Master Rules, Revised? (If these are even the current rule books...)

Thanks for your time.
Drasnighta
06/07/15 09:55 AM
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Total Warfare is the current book.

Pros: Most of the Game Rules you want are right there. Only real major change I found in going back was the change to Partial Cover. Which I prefer. There are no LAMs at that point, either - the LAM rules havn't been officially rewritten apart from the TRO 3145 or something. Maybe Project Phoenix?

Aerospace integration is straight in the Total Warfare book (No Aerotech needed), as are Infantry (no Citytech Needed)

Cons: Construction is outsourced to the Techmanual. So you'll need to run Stock 'mechs from TRO 3025 and equivelant.

The BMR,R is no longer the most current rules.
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
CrayModerator
06/07/15 01:35 PM
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Total Warfare is a good starting point. It will be compatible with all your old material. The basics haven't changed much; partial cover works a bit differently and it'd be worth keeping an eye on Total Warfare for your first game, but otherwise it's the same old game. Though because the game has changed so little, you could pick up an old, cheap copy of BattleTech Master Rules on ebay for pennies and play with that.

Tech Manual has all the construction rules for everything short of WarShips and some exotic super-sized vehicles.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
06/07/15 11:45 PM
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one major thing did change. How infantry takes damage from energy weapons. For some battles, that would have altered how the game history went. Alot more infantry units in cities would have destroyed more units especially mechs.
Not sure if anyone is going to disagree with this thought.

But this is only a big deal if you have or fight with alot of infantry.
CrayModerator
06/08/15 05:04 PM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

one major thing did change. How infantry takes damage from energy weapons.



Oh, right. Infantry now generally only take 1 to 3 points of damage from big guns, like AC/20s, medium lasers, and PPCs. They're assumed to be spread out so a BFG can't hurt them easily. You need a weapon that can really spray an area, like an MG, to do so something. The change was implemented to make infantry and light weapons (like MGs) more useful, based on playtester feed back.

Quote:
For some battles, that would have altered how the game history went. Alot more infantry units in cities would have destroyed more units especially mechs.
Not sure if anyone is going to disagree with this thought.



I don't agree. Infantry don't deal a lot of damage and. generally, they lasted a lot longer in novels than they do in the board game. This brought the rules a bit closer to the storyline.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
06/09/15 12:17 AM
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So you do not feel that infantry not dieing as fast would not have caused more damage to the units they were fighting?
That the extra damage or even extra rolls would not have resulted in more units being destroyed from things like a lucky hit?
Even just surviving longer meant more damage done, that would allow other units to finally punch thru weakened armor?
I know from some of the battles I have done with infantry, if they did not die as quick, theot point blank hidden attacks would have destroyed most units I was using. But then then being hidden until they fired is a big game changer.
And that is just regular foot rifle infantry. Not even going into smr or laser infantry. Or them being able to move undetected in buildings to hit from a different location.
But then the mission was to avoid excessive damage to the buildings as well, so that might have something to do with it.

Still. from what I have seen, the newer rules covers some of the gaps and questions the older rules missed.
As a side note, I would suggest you find out if the people want to use house rules as well. Some can make the game very interesting, while others might be a little much.
ghostrider
06/09/15 07:58 PM
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That last post sounded a little worse then I wanted it to. It sounds more like a personal attack then it was meant to.

I had to think about how the games story went, and realize they did NOT fight out alot of the battles and just wrote what they wanted to.
If they had, and used the new rules, they would have seen alot of light mechs, as well as heavier ones die quickly from massed infantry attacks.
Considering the lowely 7 points of damage from infantry it applied to the same location. That is enough to go internal on most 20 ton mechs. Now that means they could possibly take out the leg with a crit of 12. And that does not include the heavier mechs having their rear torso armor pierced in such attacks.
And that is not even including vehicles with their crit issues.
FrederickSteiner
06/11/15 03:02 AM
2.206.145.105

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Thanks for your answers. We'll get Total Warfare and the 3025 and 3026 Readouts.

We'll start vehicle only then gradually introduce Mechs, perhaps up to 25% of the tonnage. We hope that may lead to interesting combined arms tactics. Though with the Mech bias in the rules, I'm not sure.

We'll be playing on a 75x75(cm) table to have enough room for maneuveing.

Have all the rules from Maximum Tech made it into Total Warfare? Or would detail enthusiasts still want to get Maximum Tech?


Edited by FrederickSteiner (06/11/15 03:03 AM)
ghostrider
06/11/15 05:07 AM
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Depending on the vehicles you use, you may need to watch the edges. I believe the savanha master is 10/15 move in the 3025 era.

You can get by with one set of rules. If you want to collect, then that is your choice. The later rules explains more, but they also include tech advances that just weren't around in the 3025 era. So if you don't know which is which, then you might have issues.

Word of warning. Some of the fluff in the read outs doesn't hold anything in the game. The earlier prints of the 3025 tro has something about the javelin being top heavy and has a +1 to piloting when running. It isn't there in later printings, and doesn't affect the game other then just added reading.

Also if you like using lams, they were left out of the newer versions of the rules.

If you get bored, the house rule section has some things that might be interesting to you, or might be a waste of time. That is for you to decide.

Hope you have fun with the game.
Drasnighta
06/11/15 09:10 AM
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Total Warfare takes on a few things from Maximum Tech, but not entirely. Total Warfare is more the integration of BMR+AeroTech+CityTech sort of thing.

Maximum Tech is still useful if you want ultra-detail, but really, its an extra - get Total Warfare first and see what you think... You might want to instead look at Tactical Operations / Strategic Operations for addions and additional rules instead.
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
CrayModerator
06/11/15 05:54 PM
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Quote:
FrederickSteiner writes:
Have all the rules from Maximum Tech made it into Total Warfare? Or would detail enthusiasts still want to get Maximum Tech?



The MaxTech rules mostly went to Tactical Operations, the third book in the core rulebook series of:

Total Warfare (basic, combined arms play)
Tech Manual (basic construction of almost all unit types)
Tactical Operations (advanced and optional rules)
Strategic Operations (advanced space combat, logistics, etc.)
A Time of War (Mechwarrior 4th edition RPG)
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
FrederickSteiner
06/14/15 10:59 AM
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Thanks again for your input.

An additional question: Does the Technical Readout 3039 contain the entries from 3025/3026 in their original (i.e. Readout 25/26) configuration? Or have changes been made?

I read they introduced a handfull of post-3025/pre-clan Mechs and toned down versions of 2750 Mechs, but did the original designs remain untouched?
CrayModerator
06/14/15 12:09 PM
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Quote:
FrederickSteiner writes:
An additional question: Does the Technical Readout 3039 contain the entries from 3025/3026 in their original (i.e. Readout 25/26) configuration? Or have changes been made?



A quick skim suggests TR:3039 appears to have all of TR:3025/3026 vehicles and 'Mechs in their original configuration. I haven't spotted any changes. There are two caveats:

1) Vehicles now are made with rounding to the nearest half ton, like 'Mechs. There might be minor changes to accommodate that, a few points of armor removed or cargo gone. It won't make a big difference.

2) Any of the "Unseen" 'mechs ('mechs based on Robotech or other anime) are not in TR:3039. Those are 'Mechs like the Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk, Shadow Hawk, Battlemaster, Crusader, etc.

TR:3039 also collects a lot of 'Mechs, tanks, and fighters that were referenced in old sourcebooks.

It separates a lot of new designs (the first new BattleMechs to be created since the fall of the Star League) into their own chapter. Those tended to appear in the House Sourcebooks and include the Raven, Hatchetman, and other new-to-3025 designs.

Quote:
I read they introduced a handfull of post-3025/pre-clan Mechs and toned down versions of 2750 Mechs, but did the original designs remain untouched?



To fill in the gaps left by the removal of the Unseen (copyrights, bleh), dumbed-down versions of Star League 'Mechs were introduced for 3025. These represent the versions of Star League 'Mechs that could be built and maintained in 3025: no fancy technology. If you're playing in 2750, you can still use the high-tech Star League versions. If you're playing in 3050+ you can also use the original high-tech Star League models since they're once again producible. Clans, of course, might also have the Star League 'Mechs for their second line troops.

TR:3039 has the low-tech versions of those Star League 'Mechs.

The so-called Unseen are perfectly usable in your games. They meet the rules and you can find their stats (with new art) in TR:3039 in the "Project Phoenix" chapter. FASA/FanPro/Catalyst just had to get their images out of the game to avoid copyright issues, so now they have new art to go with the original stats.

I haven't flipped through TR:3039 often since reviewing the draft, but after doing that to answer your questions I'd say it's a good Tech Readout for someone getting back into the game. It compiles several Tech Readouts into one place (TR:3025, TR:3026, lots of stray designs from other books) and adds a couple of chapters of extra 'Mechs.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
FrabbyModerator
06/15/15 01:27 PM
87.164.156.46

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Quote:
FrederickSteiner writes:
An additional question: Does the Technical Readout 3039 contain the entries from 3025/3026 in their original (i.e. Readout 25/26) configuration? Or have changes been made?



The fluff text in the entries has been updated a bit. I don't think the actual stats/configurations for the boardgame units have changed. A few corrections occurred, and famously, the Long Tom mobile artillery piece got its corrected stats for download, um, somewhere (the main BT homepage I think).

Quote:
Cray writes:

2) Any of the "Unseen" 'mechs ('mechs based on Robotech or other anime) are not in TR:3039. Those are 'Mechs like the Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk, Shadow Hawk, Battlemaster, Crusader, etc.



Happy to point out that Cray is wrong here. The classic 'Mechs are in the book, but they have been grouped into a separate section called "Project Phoenix" in the back of the book and naturally their well-known images cannot be shown. Instead, you get inkblot shapes of their 3067-era "Project Phoenix" redesigns.

In-character, TRO3039, which was written looking back at the era from 3073, explains that these are of course the baseline models that everybody knows and which did get a visual makeover in the 3067 Project Phoenix so that's how they're represented, even though they looked you-know-how back in 3039.
FrederickSteiner
06/23/15 03:13 AM
2.206.23.51

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We found a (heavily mishandled) copy of the 3025 Readout, so we ordered Total Warfare and the 3026 Readout.

The Total Warfare book already arrived and I'm impressed by the production quality. I like what I've seen of subtle rules changes so far (i.e. attacker and target hex not counting towards LOS, so if A can see B, B can see A as well - if I recall correctly that was not always the case with the right combination of heavy and light woods). I've been searching for fire and smoke and realized that those come with Tactical Operations.

Tactical Operations will be next along with the 3039 Readout. I'm not sure whether we'll need the Tech Manual as we do not want to construct our own designs. Is there anything in there except the construction rules?


Edited by FrederickSteiner (06/23/15 03:13 AM)
CrayModerator
06/23/15 05:57 PM
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Quote:
FrederickSteiner writes:

Tactical Operations will be next along with the 3039 Readout. I'm not sure whether we'll need the Tech Manual as we do not want to construct our own designs. Is there anything in there except the construction rules?



Tech Manual is pure construction.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Ironnerd
08/31/15 10:43 PM
68.184.124.238

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I was out for a while. I quit playing BT when the Proto-mechs came out. Neat idea, poor execution. Anyway... I wanted to get away from all the whiz-bang stuff and return to the roots of BT succession wars era - so I dug out my old "Battletech Manual".

Herbert's Hooligans have been having a blast with those old rules. If you can get yer hands on one, grab the "Battletach Manual" or even "Battletech Compendium" and play for the fun of blowing stuff up. And if you feel guilty about not giving your money to Catalyst, send them a donation - for the cause.

Over at Drivethrurpg, the Tech manual is marked down to $15, and Total Warfare is $15 also. Do get the TRO 3039, it's nicely done - even if the "Unseen" mechs are still "Unseen".

I would actually like to see more stuff come out for the succession wars. They lasted something like 300 years, so there must be some cool stories read and scenarios to play. I mean, Star League vs Amaris... so many battles on so many worlds! The first Succession War with all Star League tech... (I think I'm getting the vapors).
ghostrider
09/01/15 02:30 AM
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That is a small problem. The succession wars started out with star league tech in the beginning. It was during the destruction that the tech level slipped to the 3025 time era.
So technically the old books would not be everything needed to run the wars from the star league fall.

And not all the new rules are bad. Most seem to fill in the blanks from older rules. Now if you could start with agreed upon mechs and tech, then play it, I would think it would be fun to change history of the time line. But you could always do that without the full star league thing. Set up a few 'bandit' kingdoms and fight it out with them. Even rich houses in the league era as the house lords start pulling the league apart. Then you don't have to worry about keeping time in line.

But I do think the 3025 era of items was the most fun. Not because it was the first, but because there was some odd feeling that weapons were out of balance like some of the newer ones, or even some of star league. The gauss rifle comes to mind with out of balance. Range and damage negates the weight even without the single heat point it produces..
Ironnerd
09/01/15 10:27 PM
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Agreed. I would have to add in the 2750 to get the Star League stuff... A small price to pay especially since I bought it a couple of decades ago - a benefit of being an old dude, I guess.

With the addition of Maximum Tech you get a LOT of cool. Several really nice optional rules in there (burst fire machine guns come immediately to mind).

Yeah, some of the "new" weapons seem out there. Clan weapons more so that Star League.

I also agree with Ghostrider that 3025 was just the most fun. Cool, funky setting. Fun 'mechs. Not a lot of rules. Just running around blowing stuff up. I also understand the introduction of SLDF tech (to drive sales), and the Clans (to drive sales), and all the other stuff (Dark Age, Jihad, Moose-Jaw...whatever - to drive sales). I also understand that it's kinda hard to go back to 1st Succession War since all the 'Mechs are already available - and will not do much to drive sales, other than a few source books. Let's be honest though, TRO's make the money; everybody wants the eye-candy.

I also think the new rule books are very nice. COLOR! Better art. some nice new rules (I do like the updated partial cover rule), and some other stuff.
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