Rotwang
12/30/14 05:36 AM
94.226.248.136
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HMP hasn't been updated since there was a Holy Roman Emperor, SSW had a minor bug fix in September, but little else, MML seems to give odd results and Remlab is still in the early stages.
Most of the older software is either hopelessly outdated or refuses to work on newer machines.
Battletech is getting to be extremely complex with Colossal mechs and the new LAM rules, and it's getting harder to make all the small details work. Making a mech by hand/spreadsheet is becoming a major chore because there is always a detail that's hard to figure out correctly.
But at the moment the software is not following ...
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Karagin
12/30/14 01:05 PM
70.118.139.48
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Rick is still working on HMP, granted it is out of date but you can get the new weapons into the program with an update found on the HMP page.
As for the other programs, they are not user friendly and are not even official, and given that these are side projects for the folks making them, well I am not expecting them to be fully devoted to things.
With the changes to the game and the new rules and the loss of the simple yet challenging rule set of the game, we are seeing a turn to a clone of Warhammer 40K as far rules go if nothing else.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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TigerShark
01/04/15 01:48 AM
104.49.175.97
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I've yet to see any proof Rick is working on HMP. He openly admitted he's stopped working on it, in fact. That and it doesn't take 8 years to write a program. lol
Rick: "But yeah, it's been a long time, and I've not said much here, mostly, to be honest, because I'm embarrassed that it's taken so long. And, to be honest, THERE HAVE NOT BEEN ANY REAL UPDATES RECENTLY. I still intend to complete the program, but real world concerns have trumped my programming time and inclination. I won't insult you, or myself, by giving an estimated completion date; I just don't know."
So I know there are fans of his work who are pushing for support, but it's lip service at this point. Nothing is getting done and nothing WILL be done, most likely. The excuses about 'updates' are rubbish. Programs have patches. You know... the same ones he's been making for the previous version? lol If it was complete, he'd publish it and offer patches when rules or BV errata occur.
He admitted earlier that he bit off more than he could chew. Chose a concept which was time consuming and just lost interest. So that's fair. People don't always finish projects. But after 8 years, turning the thing over to another developer should be in order.
Hmm. And the other programs aren't "user-friendly?" Could you explain..? What are you haven't trouble figuring out? I and every MegaMek user have been running MegaMekLab and Solaris Skunkwerks for years. Seems to work fine for making MTF files and printing record sheets for table top.
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Karagin
01/04/15 11:23 PM
70.118.139.48
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Yes I can explain, SSW has a clunky interface that does not work well, it is not simple to install and over all isn't set up to be simple to use.
I am glad you can speak for every one else who uses MegaMek and SSW, I doubt very much that your statement is actual fact, but that is your opinion, my opinion is compared to programs like Mechworks or HMP they are not user friendly and are hard to install and use in manner that is enjoyable and simple.
HMP is still usable, and as I point out, there are updates that include the new weapons for use with in the program, I guess you missed that part there TigerShark, in fact Rick made a point of put it on the forums and the main page. You can also talk to Merdon Pryde he has the files as well to share on his site.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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TigerShark
01/05/15 10:03 PM
104.49.175.97
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SSW = download a ZIP file. Unzip the file. Double click on the java file and open. lol Yes. SUPER difficult to install. Haha. Something tells me you've never even used it. I always get a good laugh out of these posts.
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TigerShark
01/05/15 10:07 PM
104.49.175.97
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And again, I don't care about updates to an out-dated program. You can update Windows 3.x if you want to; doesn't mean it's still competitive. If he can update THAT program, he could have updated HMP 6. I think it's more that you don't bother to step out of your box and try anything else. Judging from your inability to unzip a file, I can see why.
And yes, I can speak for them. Since HMP is almost beyond being supported by the current versions and SSW / MMLab are the only other two programs people use. If there are more, none of the groups I've come into contact with seem to apply them to their games. And if you have any knowledge otherwise, do tell.
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Karagin
01/05/15 10:56 PM
70.118.139.48
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You can not speak for them, but it's your opinion based on your group and in my area and others I know I find more still use HMP with the updates and find it far easier to use.
Something tells me that you will continue to bash Rich since he has not dropped everything and worked solely on HMP6 and something tells me also that you are not going to see or even listen to the fact that the program is far from dead.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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TigerShark
01/06/15 01:07 AM
104.49.175.97
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As usual, you're basing your findings on a voice in your head. Care to ask Rick himself what he has completed on the program? He doesn't seem to answer messages on his own board and has stated, openly, that he stopped working on it. But that must have been a fake Rick. 
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TigerShark
01/06/15 01:08 AM
104.49.175.97
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Also, you've stated that you don't use MegaMek before, when I asked you for a game. So what exactly would you know about it? Go to MegaMek's boards "megamek.info/forums" and ask them if anyone still uses HMP for MegaMek gaming.
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ghostrider
01/06/15 12:20 PM
75.80.239.165
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I thought megamek could run a game.
If this is true, then it would have to use it's own mech lab program.
I don't think it would use information from another lab program.
But this is an assumption since I haven't used it, but most programs, of this sort, seem to use only the program IT is with.
Now this is based off things like modifying a mech in mechwarrior 2 game does not seem to transfer to mechwarrior 3. You physically have to remake it.
And the idea about user friendly problem here is definition. Using and installing it are different monsters alot of people don't take into account when claiming one is user friendly or not.
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TigerShark
01/06/15 04:54 PM
104.49.175.97
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@ Ghostrider, Solaris Skunkwerks has the ability to output MTF files. (Those are used for Mechs). Its vee program can output BLK files, but they're incomplete. You still need to hand-edit them. Not too difficult if you can open an "equipment.txt" file and type in some tags.
MMLab is "hooked" into MegaMek, so it pulls an equipment list directly from the equipment.txt file. It's more 'user-friendly' for the express application of putting out files for use in MegaMek.
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Karagin
01/06/15 10:42 PM
70.118.139.48
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Fair Point ghostrider.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akalabeth
02/04/15 02:25 AM
96.49.50.102
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SSW's interface is great in my opinion, but the java-based program can be difficult to install if only because it is not a traditional .exe program.
I've yet to be able to get SAW to work.
HMP is largely abandon-ware. The author doesn't seem interested in doing anything more than updates to the program. Given the prevalence of free alternatives I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't motivated to work more on it.
Edited by Akalabeth (02/04/15 02:27 AM)
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TigerShark
07/01/15 10:29 PM
104.49.175.97
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Quote:
Karagin writes:
You can not speak for them, but it's your opinion based on your group and in my area and others I know I find more still use HMP with the updates and find it far easier to use.
Something tells me that you will continue to bash Rich since he has not dropped everything and worked solely on HMP6 and something tells me also that you are not going to see or even listen to the fact that the program is far from dead.
Well, it's been 6 months. Any updates from Rick? Dying to know..!
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Niall
08/24/15 01:26 AM
213.233.137.200
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Time for Rick to pass on the baton to somebody who cares. Haven't heard of anyone using HMP in years - it's pretty much abandonware at this stage. It's mental that he is still charging money for this outdated program.
All the Megamek campaign server players have used Solaris Skunk Werks for years at this stage - easy to install, use and keeps up with the rules. It is a far superior product to one one that is nearly nine years out of date and fails to incorporate whole areas of the new rules.
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Karagin
08/24/15 09:09 AM
70.118.139.48
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HMP is not abandonware, in fact many still do use it and with folks adding in the new weapons it has lot of use still.
Megamek IS NOT BATTLETECH, it is a third party item, same with SSW. So until CGL cancels Rick's license HMP is still the official Design software.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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TigerShark
08/27/15 04:27 AM
104.49.175.97
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MegaMek has the exactly same rules coded as they exist in the books. It's a bit like saying, "playing chess online isn't chess."
Yes, it is unfortunately the official design software. Holding onto the license at this point is feeling more like a grudge than anything else. Or at least it's how I'm interpreting the comments on the forum. Like "it was difficult for me to get this, and I'm not giving it up cheaply." That's pretty much where we're at.
Edited by TigerShark (08/27/15 04:39 AM)
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happyguy49
08/27/15 05:07 AM
98.30.242.159
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Slight tangent hijack.. is there a design software that can do Tripods (including sub-100 ton tripods), Colossal mechs, superheavy tanks? SSW has tripod option, but it doesn't appear to be implemented correctly (clicking "Tripod" doesn't increase internal structure weight, for instance.)
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Retry
08/27/15 07:15 PM
76.7.232.58
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The most recent Megameklab software does Tripods of all weight classes, IS Colossal mechs, and superheavy tanks.
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Bad_Syntax
09/22/15 12:07 AM
72.190.114.13
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I hate to revive an old thread, but I'm going to do it anyway....
I announced a couple weeks ago I was going to write a windows app to design everything. I already had a website that validated everything and made record sheets for most stuff, but this will be a complete rewrite in .NET 4.5 so it'll run on windows 7/10/mac parallels/etc.
I've been posting weekly updates on my blog (link below) as well as *almost* daily updates on my facebook group (links a couple of posts down on that same blog).
I've gotten very little interest though, but I don't have a lot of following and the official battletech forum moderators have a personal vendetta against me so it isn't like I'll be able to get the word out much.
However, I am doing it, will finish it, and am far far closer than anybody else in the world I know of. I'm inputting IOBeta stuff this week (coding was the first week), but will make quick progress right after when I jump back into the code.
Anyway, there are some folks that are working on this. Personally I want to be able to make things like mobile structures, buildings, support vehicles, and infantry platoons (made one of these before) which nobody seems to like as much.
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Nic Jansma
10/07/15 11:21 PM
73.191.226.169
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Great seeing you make progress Bad_Syntax. Here's the link for all those interested: http://btengineer.blogspot.com/
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TigerShark
01/06/16 03:19 PM
12.130.166.32
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Well, it's 2016. Guessing no HeavyMetalPro updates? lol
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Poxinabox
01/17/16 11:07 PM
70.79.138.18
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As my battletech group is becoming more engrossed in the game, an updated easy-to-use software package would be awesome. So far we're using SSW and SAW, which have been SUPER easy for first-time users (considered by us all to be user-friendly, and no issues 'installing').
However as we get deeper into it (and having a full-blown campaign that may even lead to use of the RPG system), we find we're in need of a designer that will let us make Aerospace fighters and Super Heavy 'mechs. Any design program that will accommodate those while being up-to-date on rules will have my support (vocal and financial), and that of my group.
HMP, unfortunately, does not currently fall under the up-to-date aspect and so my group isn't willing to support it. So far we've done a pen-and-paper Superheavy and just used a few stock Aerospace record sheets, but those won't hold us long.
Is there anything currently that can do proper record sheets that goes beyond SSW such as Aerospace especially, but also maybe Superheavies and possibly LAMs in the future? Or is that still in limbo/unknown?
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Karagin
01/18/16 11:12 AM
72.176.187.91
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HMP offers the ability to include the new weapons, WHICH if folks would go to the main page and read has been done by others and so you can build mechs using the newer stuff.
Folks have used the custom weapons editor to include the new weapons and some of the other items to use. Granted it could be better, but it shows that if you actually play around with the program you can get it to do what you need.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
01/18/16 12:52 PM
68.103.19.152
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...You didn't answer his question at all.
Unfortunately I don't know any program that allows you to design legal superheavies, LAMs, or Aerospace *and* create proper record sheets for them. I know one or two that does one or the other, but none that does both for all of them.
I know REMLAB can do Aerospace designs and record sheets, but it's a bit buggy and rather ancient. Might make a decent interim measure.
MegaMekLab can make all of them, but I don't think it has a function to print record sheets.
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Poxinabox
01/18/16 10:54 PM
70.79.138.18
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Thank you for the insight, Karagin, but unfortunately that wasn't what I was looking for. SSW does what I need for Battlemechs through-and-through, including all the weapons I know of in the books I own. Adding these weapons myself into a program that is, simply put, out-of-date is not in my interest with such a complete alternative.
Retry, thank you very much for the suggestion. MegaMekLab can indeed do all including Aerospace, which was my biggest concern; I did have an odd issue printing in that it wouldn't print until I restarted the program, but after retrying just once I have my Aero record sheets - and they are every bit as canonical-looking as those from SSW! Minus the fluff image... for some reason that isn't working. No big deal.
MML will definitely tide my group over until something more complete comes up. We only have the two Superheavies, after all, and the interest in LAMs hasn't quite yet reached 'I wanna buy this!' status yet.
Thanks again for the replies, guys!
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Karagin
01/19/16 06:49 AM
72.176.187.91
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You don't have to add in any thing, it has already been done by others, as I said the link is on the Main HMPro page for the weapons and such. And seeing how SSW IS NOT an official BT product, well, I will leave that part for you decide what you are supporting.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Poxinabox
01/19/16 12:28 PM
70.79.138.18
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I'm supporting that which is most useful and easy to use, especially since a couple of my groupmates are first-timers.
I understand that, from this series of posts alone, you're a staunch supporter of Heavy Metal Pro (which isn't just fine, it's great). However, as I understand it, HMP is sorely outdated with no updates coming in sight (hence the point of the OP). Heavy Metal Aero is listed on the site to have been updated last in September of 2008. I don't pay for old and outdated programs if someone is putting out new, updated, and possibly better programs somewhere else.
SSW may not be the official BT product, but it's been so simply and easy to use that within a month of downloading it (for free), two friends decided it was the game for them and bought TW and TacOps at the local hobby store, which IS official, and they may not have done so if it hadn't been for the ease of access in figuring out their own custom designs. Further, I find it odd you'd take the stance that HMP ought to be sought out (even excluding the lack of updates) over third-party software because it's official, then go on to say it is made usable by third parties. One way or another, this official product is inferior to my needs.
Until HMP is:
- up to date on its own as a complete purchasable package
- is as easy to use as, say, SSW or MML
- contains all or at least most of the types of armoured units (Mech, Vehicle, LAM, Aero, Superheavy, Tripod, Proto) that my group has expressed interest in playing
then I'm afraid the OP is entirely correct that the official design software has gone by the wayside, and new(ish) players like myself and my friends need to seek out something else, such as SSW/MML and as we progress into greater details possibly BTengineer as put forth by Bad_Sytnax.
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Karagin
01/19/16 02:04 PM
72.176.187.91
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HMP is far easier to use and better supported then SSW.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Poxinabox
01/19/16 02:07 PM
206.116.4.63
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I'll have to take your word for it, but I find it difficult to imagine anything easier than literally just opening the program, clicking a couple times, and printing a sheet. And that still doesn't take into account the other things I mentioned in my previous post.
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