Fafnir - Red Dragon Edition

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Silverwing
10/20/15 08:30 AM
174.91.246.19

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Hi!
I'm new to this forum and to Battletech. I've design my first mech and would like your opinion on it...

Fafnir FNR-5D Red Dragon Edition
Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 32,4 km/h (43,2 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 54,0 km/h (64,8 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 30 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor

Armament:
2 Gauss Rifles
2 Medium Pulse Lasers
6 SRM-4s
1 Flamer

Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 152 points 10,00
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 9,50
Walking MP: 3 (4)
Running MP: 5 (6)
Jumping MP: 1 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 RL 2,00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2,00
Gyro: XL 1,50
Cockpit: Standard 3,00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
TSM Locations: 3 LA, 3 RA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 288 18,00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 44
Center Torso (rear) 15
L/R Torso 21 30
L/R Torso (rear) 10
L/R Arm 17 30
L/R Leg 21 40

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flamer HD 3 1 1,00
Gauss Rifle RT 1 7 15,00
Medium Pulse Laser RT 4 1 2,00
Gauss Rifle LT 1 7 15,00
Medium Pulse Laser LT 4 1 2,00
3 SRM-4s RA 9 3 6,00
3 SRM-4s LA 9 3 6,00
@Gauss Rifle (8) RT - 1 1,00
@Gauss Rifle (8) LT - 1 1,00
@SRM-4 (25) RA - 1 1,00
@SRM-4 (25) LA - 1 1,00
@SRM-4 (Inferno) (25) RL - 1 1,00
@SRM-4 (Inferno) (25) LL - 1 1,00
@Gauss Rifle (8) LL - 1 1,00
Free Critical Slots: 2


It's going to be use in duel 100 t. vs 100 t., various maps. I know I'm short on ammo, but I don't really know how much rounds last a battle, so it's hard for me to plan.

The concept of the mech is hard hitting from distance (since I'm a rookie better kill them before having to do fancy moves), and fire attacks for the dragon theme (I know flamer is not that good...;-)

All your insights all welcome.
Thanks
Silverwing
ghostrider
10/20/15 10:17 AM
98.150.102.177

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A lot of people here would think more lasers would be a start. No worries about ammo that way.

Inferno ammo is nice, but I don't know if you need 2 tons of it. Using one maybe 2 launchers should be more then enough for a dueling mech. Granted hitting might be the issue.
14 shots with both rifles might seem like a lot, but it is your main long range weapons. You will probably doing alot of pot shots with them.

The dual gauss set up is nice, but you also have to think of some of the maps. Yeah, that does help avoid not needing more ammo for them but for some, you will be relying on them hitting. Hope you have some decent gunnery skills.

The single jump jet is unusual. Not sure about the usefulness of it.

Now one thing that might help would be case for the ammo.

And one last thing for now. If you plan on punching, having your main short range punch in the arms isn't a good idea. Most here will say a kick is better.

Not sure but some would probably suggest moving the rifles into the arms for a better firing arc then the torsos provide. I like the extra protection of the torso armor, but it may limit you at times.
Still it looks like it will work as is. The main real suggestion is changing out a ton of inferno ammo. Better to use the weight for something else.
Drasnighta
10/20/15 02:25 PM
198.53.98.65

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For a Duel, bring enough ammo for 8-10 'turns' if you're not completely confident on hitting.

That would mean you're desperately short of Gauss Rifle ammo - only having 4 'turns' of shooting available.

Your SRM ammunition is overblown, at 16 'turns' of shooting - and this could be Gauss ammo instead, because you will usually get more Long Range shots than Short Range. You can drop a Ton easily - mostly because its Inferno rounds, not standard... That, and they're short ranged. I'd consider changing them for something else - if you want to keep the "banks of SRM launchers", then just go 2 each side, rather than 3. Utilise that tonnage for Gauss Ammunition.

Contrary to ghostrider, I will say "Keep the Gausses in the Torso." - because *if you move the Dual Gauss from the Torso, its arguably no longer a Fafnir.*...

The Fafnir has the Dual hammers in the Torso, and the spindly outarms. If you want to continue to keep the Feel of that BattleMech, then go that way - that is a potential sacrifice for fluff, after all.

You can also look at boosting the Jumping Capability at this point... One Jumping MP, I agree, is very Odd... The only time I've ever used a single Jump MP was to get un-Stuck from a MaxTech Swamp Hex. With 3 Jump Jets, you can start looking at making 3 elevation Changes, which takes you from Total Cover to Shooting Position and back the next turn. There is an argument that a Single Jump MP lets you spin a 180 degree turn with a one hex movement, even if your actuators are damaged - but the penalty for landing is usually prohibative at that point.

I'd advise some tweaking - fewer SRMs, more Gauss Ammo, try to add the Extra Jets if you want 'em.
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
ghostrider
10/20/15 03:03 PM
98.150.102.177

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One thing dras missed saying is you are medium range, possibly reaching short range with the gauss rifles when the srms are long. That little fact can change the roll needed by 2. Even moving to short range may still be medium with the srms.
I had forgotten about that until the range fire was brought up.

Unless they changed it, fire up less then 3 jets still produces 3 heat, and you are at a +3 to hit, without doing much for the enemies gunnery.

Now I am not sure if dfa can be done with a single jet or not. I don't know if you were looking to try it either, but the thought did come to mind with using a single jet.
Drasnighta
10/20/15 04:23 PM
198.53.98.65

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You can indeed DFA with a Single Jet.


The Jump Jets are more about Mobility than anything - especially when you might be dealing with a constrictive environment, and low overall MPs for turning/terrain.
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
Retry
10/20/15 09:40 PM
76.7.232.58

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Other than the odd jump jet it looks like a decent, conventional assault mech. The gauss ammo is low but I think that's fine for an arena mech, you'll probably be depending more on your sheer SRM volume anyways.
Silverwing
10/21/15 12:07 AM
174.91.246.19

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1) Yes the single jet was indeed intended for DFA. I thought it would be epic to see a 100 tons Dragon fall from the sky. But then again, I went back reading the Death From Above rule and here my conclusion: NOT.

DFA: I do 30 pts on punch table, but get 20 pts in my leg.
Attack at range 1: Possibly 80 pts + kick (if I understand everything well)

2) Yes I will change one ton of inferno ammo for 1 ton of Gauss Rifle ammo. This will give me 12 turns of SRM (8 normal + 4 inferno) and 16 turns of Gauss. Logically, I will shoot more Gauss then SRM because of the range.

3) If I understand well I don't really need case for my Lt/Rt because if it blow, 3 of my XL engine will already be dead, and so am I. That's why a like Fafnir with the Gauss in the torso where there is more armor/structure. Of course original Fafnir had Heavy Gauss Rifle so it was the only place anyway (but I don't like damage at different ranges, and pilot roll for moving and shooting)

4) So if I remove the jump jet, that's leave 2 tons and 3 crit. What do I do with it? 1 ton of armor and 1 of ammo? Two heat sink? What about anti-missile system or ECM suit ?

Thanks again for helping me with the design!
Silverwing
ghostrider
10/21/15 02:07 AM
98.150.102.177

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Armor is a good thing at times, but so is ecm if the enemy uses streak launchers or narc equipped units.
Heat sinks might be a problem as critical spaces for innersphere double sinks are 3 spots in the same location per sink.
A possible replacement would be an erml. I would honestly think dropping the pulse to er style might be an idea, but that is iffy. You want striking ability as well as range. If you can't hit, then all the weapons in the world are useless.
The ams would be helpful if you're opponent is using lrms and srms.

Now as a side note, a double punch or club does your 20 points on the punch location (unless newer rules changed that). The kick has a better hit, but missing it causes piloting roll on top of any other rolls needed. Not a good thing if your piloting sucks.
Falls from a miss are nasty.
Also limited arcs for the kick, but still worth the shot most of the time.

Granted, you could gain a critical space or 2 by removing some hand/lower arm actuators, but that might not be a great idea either.
Silverwing
10/30/15 12:35 AM
174.91.246.19

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Here's my final version. It will be battle test next week. I keep you inform.

Fafnir FNR-5D Red Dragon Edition
Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 32,4 km/h (43,2 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 54,0 km/h (64,8 km/h)
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor

Armament:
2 Gauss Rifles
2 Medium Pulse Lasers
6 SRM-4s
1 Flamer
2 Anti-Missile Systems

Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 152 points 10,00
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 9,50
Walking MP: 3 (4)
Running MP: 5 (6)
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2,00
Gyro: XL 1,50
Cockpit: Standard 3,00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
TSM Locations: 3 LA, 3 RA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 288 18,00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 47
Center Torso (rear) 15
L/R Torso 21 32
L/R Torso (rear) 10
L/R Arm 17 30
Left Leg 21 36
Right Leg 21 37

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flamer HD 3 1 1,00
Gauss Rifle RT 1 7 15,00
Medium Pulse Laser RT 4 1 2,00
SRM-4 RT 3 1 2,00
Gauss Rifle LT 1 7 15,00
Medium Pulse Laser LT 4 1 2,00
SRM-4 LT 3 1 2,00
2 SRM-4s RA 6 2 4,00
Anti-Missile System RA 1 1 0,50
2 SRM-4s LA 6 2 4,00
Anti-Missile System LA 1 1 0,50
@Gauss Rifle (8) RA - 1 1,00
@SRM-4 (25) RA - 1 1,00
@Gauss Rifle (8) LA - 1 1,00
@Anti-Missile System (12) LA - 1 1,00
@Gauss Rifle (8) RL - 1 1,00
@SRM-4 (Inferno) (25) RL - 1 1,00
@Gauss Rifle (8) LL - 1 1,00
@SRM-4 (25) LL - 1 1,00
Free Critical Slots: 0

I changed a few weapon locations, to maximize my punchs and took the 2 tons and 3 criticals for a double AMS (I know only one per missile attack).

Silverwing
ghostrider
10/30/15 03:55 AM
98.150.102.177

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Are you playing house rules that allow you to pull heat sinks off line so they don't cool the unit?
If not, you may be firing the pulse lasers at nothing along with wasting ammo for the srms.
I know one person that tried that, and caused a few playing to question if it was legal. It was since there is nothing in anything that says you can't shoot to shoot, but it slows down the game, and cost him in the end.
The game master used fires and he ended his turn in one. Which pushed him just that much over what he was looking for, and a bad die roll ended his ammunition.

Hope it does some good.

One more thing you might want to find out before playing. With multiple ammo bins, can you pick which ones you drain first?
If so, I would suggest the ra ammo bin for the srms. Just incase you take an arm crit. Would suck to lose the arm plus additional damage from an ammo explosion.
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