ghostrider
11/04/15 12:22 PM
98.150.102.177
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What is your opinion of mechs and their roles in combat?
I put forth in the moved crew size that maybe the issue with game balance for mechs might be changing their role from the main combat unit to more of an elite strike force.
I think that is the problem with the whole tech not being available to all units and logic.
Instead of using them as the front line combat units, they be used to recon, perform the rapid strike and retreats, also infiltration roles. Other units, especially infantry can be used for it as well, but mechs with their mobility (not necessarily speed) would be better then vehicles.
Using them in front line roles would still be an option, but only as a last resort. The only reason they seem to be more appealing in that role is one person can operate them, while being effective. Prices should exclude them from the front lines, but somehow it is almost cheaper to run a mech then an equally armed vehicle. Fusion plants seem to be the key expense for units. ICE's might need to drop in price and weight to make them more effective to be used as a throw away piece, since 50% of all criticals against it cause crew fatalities.
Tanks should be the main fighting units in a battle. Infantry second, while mechs should be more support then they are.
A thought. Maybe the game should focus mechs doing the things spec ops forces do. Fast raids, recon, rescue, sabotage, and such instead of trying to plow down a regiment of tanks with a single company that seems to be how they want it to appear.
Then again it could just be how I see it, hence the question of the mechs role in combat.
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TigerShark
11/06/15 05:39 PM
12.130.166.32
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This is how the Late Succession Wars did go about things, regarding planetary defense and invasions.
A huge problem comes in with player participation. Nobody ACTUALLY likes playing the Succession Wars. What they enjoy is Intro Tech, 'Mech-only battles and calling it "3025." Tank-only battles, or those fought primarily with vehicles and other conventional forces, are incredibly rare. People will want to play with 'Mechs for the most part, so I imagine the fluff drifted in the same direction as play testing.
But, in reality, armies would reserve their best units for the most dire of circumstances and most important missions; not scouting out enemy positions and handling civil unrest.
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Karagin
11/06/15 07:50 PM
72.176.187.91
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I see mechs as both offenisve and support units, I don't see them as they are shown in the novels as knights duking it out etc...no military would allow their soldiers to go off and do that, and while the idea is that mechs are similar to fighter planes is a good one, it differs in that ground tactics do not allow for the lone wolf idea of fighter tactics. Mainly because of the terrain.
Also we would not see single pilot cockpits, instead many of the mechs should be two or more in control, just like ground vehicles. Makes things easier and allows for a better response and control.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akirapryde2006
11/09/15 06:58 AM
71.100.132.249
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I can see the battlemech as elite units on the battlefield. Piloted by only the very wealthy (and in this universe the very wealthy are Nobles) who can afford the training and maintenance of such expensive units. Which fits the universe. I can understand what the authors of the universe are trying to accomplish here. The battlemech pilot was meant to be a knight of old.
The only problem is the numbers don't add up. The scale of the universe doesn't support this concept. I think someone realized this around the creation of the 2nd Addition Rule Set and the Clan Invasion.
The shift brought the mech more in to mainstream military concepts. Much like the tank or the airplane, the mech was a very expensive weapon system that would match any other unit on the battlefield. One of the problems with the shift was that the cost was never really addressed. Someone said in a thread for warships that building a warship was ton per b-bill cheaper than building a Battlemecch. A logic flaw that simply doesn't make sense.
If this is true, than the mere financial weight of these units would crush house lords. It doesn't explain how the lesser houses and bandits (let alone the Clans) can afford their units. For me, there are things I can't overlook and these little logic errors worm inside my mind and force me to think about it.
The future of the battlemech might be linked in understanding where it fits in the battlefield and more importantly how it makes this fit.
Akira
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TigerShark
11/09/15 05:36 PM
12.130.166.32
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Actually, the "feudal" concept isn't entirely true, in modern BT. It was the core of the 1980s literature, but has been relegated to footnotes in the current timeline. For example, you'll read that a Notable Pilot's family owned their AWS-8Q or something. But by no means is that true of every pilot, or even a majority.
But by-and-large, these machines are piloted by trained members of the faction's military. The only time this wouldn't be true would be in the later years of the Succession Wars, or in the Deep Periphery, where 'Mech production is slow or non-existent.
Edited by TigerShark (11/09/15 05:37 PM)
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by_the_sword
12/12/15 11:56 AM
70.192.131.215
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I never understood why it only takes one guy to pilot a 'mech, yet it takes a "crew" of guys to run a tank. I am sure that with the automated technology available, they could just have auto-loaders and targeting computers like the do in 'mechs.
There is a lot of handwaving in the BT universe. I don't love the game any less for it though.
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ghostrider
12/12/15 06:48 PM
98.150.102.177
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I imagined mechs being operated like the robots in Pacific Rim, more then sitting down in a chair and moving around joysticks. The fine motor skills needed for some things mechs are supposed to do, can not be controlled by such a method. Even a simple kick sounds difficult without moving your legs.
But then that is just me.
The novels and even the implications suggest a kick is more then just slamming your metal leg into another mechs metal legs. With some of the novels and scenario packs, a few kicks sound like it was in the torso or higher, almost like a dfa style dropkick.
It also calls into question the novels, like the Jade Phoenix novel where Joanna used her mechs jump jet in the one functioning leg to burn Natasha Kerenski's cockpit while laying flat on its back. How is that possible with joysticks or some such nonsense?
I will agree the game is fun, but it seems it will never expand past a certain point in a more realistic direction. Missiles that shoot thousands of kilometers in space, yet can't hit anything over 1km on a planet?
A system defense system capable of directing robotic controlled drop ships in a system with instantaneous reactions, but can not use drones on the planet it self or make missiles that can hit at longer ranges?
I do like seeing the novels suggest simply grazing the shoulder armor pieces on a mech and melting them with a large laser, yet supposedly you need a longer contact to do the damage really sounds stupid.
But this was asking about the place of mechs in the universe. It seems no assault would make it without using them, yet that in itself sounds wrong. It sounds like they are elite units in warfare, not the only or end all of it.
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Akirapryde2006
12/12/15 06:58 PM
71.100.132.249
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Quote:
by_the_sword writes:
I never understood why it only takes one guy to pilot a 'mech, yet it takes a "crew" of guys to run a tank. I am sure that with the automated technology available, they could just have auto-loaders and targeting computers like the do in 'mechs.
There is a lot of handwaving in the BT universe. I don't love the game any less for it though.
While normally I strive for realism in my BT Games (RPG), however in this one thing I hold true to the concept of game. Battlemechs are suppose Kings of the Battlefield. It only takes one pilot to command the level of firepower that often takes a crew to handle. This gives the Battlemech a commanding edge over all other units on the battlefield.
This edge in the game must be maintained for the sake that the game is called Battletech. A game about giant robots not tanks. lol
Akirapryde
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ghostrider
12/12/15 11:12 PM
98.150.102.177
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The neural helm is supposed to be how that is possible. That is why the concept of sitting in a seat moving joysticks doesn't make sense. You would be strapped in and your body movements should be how the mech moves. Push your right arm forward and the mech does the same thing. Point at your target and fire. Move your left leg and the mech does the same motion.
But that isn't how this works.
I can understand a tank with only forward facing guns with no turret could use a tank without anyone else, though changing some settings like comm channels or checking sensors might be a little difficult as you are moving out, but units like the savanha master come to mind there. A turret would need a second person, as trying to drive a tank in something like call of duty where the forward/backward directions change as you turn the turret. It is possible, but much easier with a person targeting, and some one driving. Crew communications comes in very handy there.
But this breaks down with aero fighters. One person flying dealing with all weapons and such. In close combat, a crash is more deadly then a slower ground vehicle. Maybe that needs to be addressed?
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