[MMORPG.COM] "General: Battletech Headed to Kickstarter for Reboot"

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NeverSayNever
07/30/15 05:51 PM
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http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/437472

Quote:

From the same team that brought the world Shadowrun Hong Kong, Harebrained Schemes, comes the news that a Battletech reboot is on the way pending a successful Kickstarter initiative. The Kickstarter will take place later this fall, but the team has unveiled a brand new site to give potential backers information about their vision of the game.

Quote:

Jordan Weisman, the creator of BattleTech and MechWarrior, is back with the first turn-based BattleTech game for PC in over two decades. Steeped in the feudal political intrigue of the BattleTech universe, the game will feature an open-ended Mercenaries-style campaign that blends RPG ‘Mech and MechWarrior management with modern turn-based tactics.








http://battletechgame.com/




------------------------

From the same team that brou"ght the world Shadowrun Hong Kong, Harebrained Schemes,"

Uhm, "Harebrained Schemes", credible / legit source / developer or hoax?

"Kickstarter initiative" = jumping on the KS bandwagon for a pre-release cash grab?

'Vaporware'?

'Tech demo'?



Only time can / will tell. I'll just keep my wallet closed while waiting for a _finished_ product. Yeah, crazy idea these days, I know ...
Karagin
07/30/15 06:10 PM
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This for the computer game, NOT the board game, very misleading subject title you went with.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Firestarter
07/30/15 07:55 PM
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I just found out about this early this morning. I was going to post something about it.
But I forgot.
Firestarter
07/30/15 07:59 PM
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Sadly there isn't much information on the site :\
happyguy49
07/31/15 12:02 AM
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I was in the kickstarter for Shadowrun Returns... the game was pretty good, I thought. So was the free Dragonfall expansion. Harebrained seems to do isometric turn-based pretty well, but it is so early we have no idea what the gameplay will be like. What I DON'T want is for them to change anything regarding the Battletech ruleset or unit stats and design.
ghostrider
07/31/15 03:44 AM
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Did you do any due diligence before implying they were a scam company?

And as much as some of the people on kickstarter are scams, it is a good way for developers to bypass the big corporations money sucking schemes to bleed the programmers and designers dry. The people that actually do the work and make the games should benefit more then just having their names on the box.

Now since nothing has been done, saying it is vaporware or tech demo is a little premature.

I am fine about warning those about issues that may happen, but how about a little more information before blasting them?

As links are a good way to viruses and trojans, I think I will avoid using it.

As a side note, you had an issue with another turn based game on the net. I will reserve judgement until I see more about the game.
From the sounds of it, the company is not a fly by night scammer.
NeverSayNever
08/01/15 03:09 AM
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http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/fe...ed-Schemes.html


More info, enjoy.
NeverSayNever
03/21/16 02:02 AM
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I just stumbled upon this:

"Major Issue with Purchaseables"

https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/1723


started wading through the thread - a few highlights so far:

"Simply put, purchaseable direct damage abilities are kind of getting ridiculous."

"Being able to nuke the battlefied"

"you got two sides basically donating to screw with this game as an extension of playing another one"

"If i'm not mistaken we're presently at ~70 damage from purchases. And that's before the 4th arty strike is resolved."

"The other problem I noticed is that the artillery strikes are far more accurate then they should be."

"Donations impacting the game... literally... is part of what makes DFA so FUN."
Justin_Kase
03/21/16 04:18 AM
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That can be taken a bit out of context - even if someone bothers to read the link. This has very little to do with the Video Game - other than HBS employees are playing this BOARD game.

The issue with purchasables has to do with a weekly HyperRPG Twitch channel series called "Death From Above"

They play a version of Mech Warrior based on Tri Tracsystems every Tuesday night, then on Friday nights they play a game of Battletech Table Top based on the scenario setup on Tuesday.

On Friday the Player Characters often face off against guest players (sometimes from other Hyper RPG channels, other gaming organizations, HBS employees, etc). They are playing with some large 3D printed mechs (using MWO frames), that stand around 5-9" tall (from what I can see) - and as they take damage, the players hand the mechs/vehicles over to a guy who dremels/melts/hammers the models to create some real time damage

Now, to your misconstrued "Concerns". During the show, people can donate money to the Twitch channel to impact the game (no pun intended). The channel posts a list of available perks and the cost.

Some perks are bought prior to the game (between Tue and Fri), others are purchased as the game is being played.

The perks can be bonuses to hit, artillery strikes, strafing runs, support vehicles (eg: tanks), smoke barrage, minefields, etc.

What happened in the last match (3.3) is some of the people that watch the ShadowRun Hyper RPG Twitch show have been supporting their ShadowRun agendas by messing with cross game players (good and bad). It allows for some massive swings in the game at times, and makes for an unpredictable battle.

The people running the show are still working out the kinks, but are trying to reign it in a bit, so as to still keep the game entertaining, but not just a boring spending war.

As to why they need the money - they are providing their channel as free to view, so you don't need to pay a Subscription - and these shows can be seen in the same light as Public Broadcasting, they need community support to survive and thrive. They also do frequent fund raisers for charity (go watch the beard off event, that was a riot!!!) Think of the episodes as mini-telethons.

The actual Battletech Game HBS is developing may share some over arching plot elements with the RPG campaign, and maybe we will even see some of the Player Characters or NPCs appear in the game as hire-able Mercs, or as opponents. But the donation system is not going to mess with your game play.



Links :


Watch the first episod of DFA on YouTube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhrDrkfUYvs

Hyper RPG Twitch Channel : https://www.twitch.tv/hyperrpg

HBS DFA Sub Forums : https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/categories/31


Edited by Justin_Kase (03/21/16 05:11 AM)
Sterling
03/21/16 09:14 AM
159.14.241.230

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As the person who started the thread in question I wanted to take a few minutes to clarify things. As Justin_Kase said, this thread was specifically referring to the DFA twitch show, *not* the Battletech game being developed by Harebrained Schemes. The HBS team has been adamant from the get go that microtransactions will not be a part of that title. Furthermore, microtransactions have never been considered for any of their Shadowrun titles either. That has even been reiterated in the thread in question by Tyler, one of the developers who also serves as the GM for the DFA twitch show (HBS_Adarael if you're perusing the thread).

The subforum this thread was created in is specifically for discussion of the DFA twitch shows. Being a fairly active member of the Battletech community site in general, and the DFA subforum in particular, I felt that the situation that arose this week, most notably in the form of unlimited purchaseable air strikes and artillery, was not one that was fun to watch or in the best interests of the show as a whole moving forward. So I put in my two cents. Tyler was considerate enough to respond, and a community discussion on the topic ensued.
ghostrider
03/21/16 01:09 PM
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May need to start a new thread, but there is a big problem with money in games. Those with it, can use it to drive out others that like to play, but don't have even 10 bucks a week to pump into the game.
Instead of dealing with random dice rolls, they buy things that allow them to do stuff no one would even attempt if not for being able to pay to do it.

DFA is a good example. Risk being blown out of the air trying to jump on someones unit. Need a roll of even 8. Pay for an automatic hit. They would never have tried it otherwise. And what do you know. The mech doesn't even have any weapons on it. It is only a physical damage unit. Charges and dfas.
Neveron was good about this bad style of play. You could start a war with someone, buy these muchy units and just walk thru an otherwise difficult defense set up, with units that are purchase only. No other way to get them other then real funds.
And to survive, you had to buy those same type of units, or forever be the whipping boy for that person when ever they could attack you again.

Even the peaceful games quickly turn into spending matches. Yes, the goal for game developers is to make money, but there are times when it destroys the game. No one wants to admit it, but when you introduce money perks, you need to actually have 2 games going, as you can not allow free to play, with pay to play. Some games have disallowed areas to the free to plays, but yet the pay to plays can bring in things that can't be gotten by the others and just walk all over them with it.

It gets worse when someone is able to dump alot of money a week into a game, and starts running out everyone they don't like. And normally the threats come hard and fast, with it seeming the eventual hacks or someone destroying the money logins get the entire game involved in legal actions. The ability to change it during the game play seems to be the issue.
Out of ammo. Spend some money and all the sudden your units is in perfect condition. That drives people away from games as well.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/21/16 05:57 PM
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Stuff like this REALLY pisses me off. Kickstarter should only be used by new stating companies that have a great idea but dont have the economic resources to get going. It should not be used by well established companies that just dont want to pony up the money to pay for there own R&D to expand their product line.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ghostrider
03/21/16 06:48 PM
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I agree.
But what is the difference between someone asking for money for a project, and never delivering, over a large company that is not willing to put up the funds to make a project with their own money?
There are a few projects with ongoing issues of need more money, though it seems the money was made and spent on other things like parties and such for the people doing the work. Now they ask for more.
Honestly, there are some things that should be publically funded by some of the larger companies, otherwise they would not get done. Remaking some of the older abandonware games would be a good example.

But that is just a point of view.
This goes beyond just games being developed, as so many other companies are using tax payer money to line their rich pockets. The rams for instance. St. Luis spent 16 million dollars of tax payer money to build a new football stadium, that the rams would NEVER pay a cent for, to keep them there. The rams are still moving, and the owner of the Rams doesn't pay a single cent in taxes as some stupid loop hole allows them to avoid it because they employ so many people. All NFL teams as well as other sports teams gain this benefit.
So it isn't just games, or software. That is the most disgusting thing about it. Even the wealthy investors get free money from the government to invest and we pay for it.
Akalabeth
03/21/16 08:42 PM
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Harebrained schemes does keep asking for money through their various kickstarter, in the same way that Double Fine has financed two-three games via Kickstarter as well.

I do in part agree with the sentiment that they should be funding their own games but the games they have delivered have been good, and often updated for free, so in this case I give them a pass. Ultimately it's up to the player whether they want to fund it or not.

So kickstarter, I don't mind.

The one crowd-funding system I DO despise these days is Patreon.
Sterling
03/22/16 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Akalabeth writes:

Harebrained schemes does keep asking for money through their various kickstarter, in the same way that Double Fine has financed two-three games via Kickstarter as well.



HBS kicked in a million of their own capital to make the Battletech game they're currently working on. The purpose of the Kickstarter campaign was to get the resources necessary to make it the full game experience that they wanted, and not just a one-off skirmish game.

They did this as a phased progression where certain features and milestones were added when pledges reached certain levels. The full breakdown is available on the project page over on Kickstarter (which unfortunately I cannot link to with a newly registered forum account,but if you google "battletech kickstarter" it is the first result).

I highly recommend folks take a look at it, as I think it'll speak to many of the concerns that were raised in this thread (and in my opinion are unfounded concerns). HBS has a very solid record of delivering on their Kickstarters.

Also, please allow me to reiterate that DFA is an entirely separate entity from the PC game. I'm seeing a lot of griping regarding aspects of the Twitch show being transferred over to the video game. There are no microtransactions, and no pay to win elements of any kind.


Edited by Sterling (03/22/16 10:44 AM)
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/22/16 12:47 PM
70.122.160.150

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Sterling you missed my point entirely. Anyone that has been given the rights to do anything with Battletech which is a well protected copyright has the money to pony up the money to pay for their own R&D. What they are doing is wanting to make millions with zero risk to their own pocketbook. That is entirely wrong! Instead of saying hay supply me with investment money and I will give you part ownership they are saying if you want this you **** well pony up the money or you will get jack **** because I am unwilling to take any risk to make my millions.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ghostrider
03/22/16 12:49 PM
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The issue with this seems to stem from others in the past asking for funds and not delivering. Not just companies but individuals as well. One person said something about a band doing the same thing.

I do think some people do not realize, there are alot of things out there that the rich execs would never agree to do if it was their money that had to be put at risk. Something as stupid as a bug in the coding before going to market with it can destroy a perfectly great game. Not testing it thouroughly can be faulted for that. Other things could be just the interface is too screwed up for the common players to do much with it. Mass effect changed some controls between their 3 games out, and if you play them back to back, it gets frustrating when x pulls you out of menus in one, but b does it in the other. Even between different games, like gears of war and mass effect can get frustrating, even though they are SUPPOSED to be different commands. But it is enough to get people to stop dealing with them.
Even thins like steam. Can't stand the fact you have to log into that crap the moment you boot up if you have civilization 5 installed. I hate anything that is constantly online looking for things. I had an issue starting civilization 5 when I first got it. Online activation took almost 3 hours as the steam servers would not finish the install. Keep having issues at 99% most of the time. So I will not be buying another game that needs steam to do anything.

And with this latest issue, there is 2 separate issues working her. Asking for money to develop something, with the side effect of feeling the donors are getting screwed, and the second being the pay to win effects. They both deal with money being dumped into games, but completely separate issues. Both are valid, but need to remain separate.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/22/16 01:18 PM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

And with this latest issue, there is 2 separate issues working her. Asking for money to develop something, with the side effect of feeling the donors are getting screwed, and the second being the pay to win effects. They both deal with money being dumped into games, but completely separate issues. Both are valid, but need to remain separate.



There are three issues.

Paying for a well established companies R&D who are not willing to pony up their own money to bring a for profit product to market. (My issue I raised)

People getting screwed and not getting what they offered the money to develop. (On a side note, I am surprised that "screwed" was not a censored word on the forum like *** and **** are.)

Pay to win products.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ghostrider
03/22/16 01:42 PM
66.74.61.223

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Screwed is not a bad term alone. The context is. You can join 2 things together with a screw and the process is screwing.
So it is not just a dirty term.

As for the established companies not putting up their money for a product they will profit on, I agree its crap, but that can be said for new companies asking as well. It is up to the people donating to decide if the rich should profit from their donations. I hate it, as the rich find ways to make the poor pay for them while they pay little to nothing, but fairness implies they have the same rights and abilities to do the same as the garage programmers do.

It sucks as we don't get the same fairness with avoiding paying our bills like the established people do, but that would require changing how the world runs.

And you can use other words like banged to imply the same thing, yet it is not considered a dirty word. And I half expect to get a warning about promoting the creative ways around the censor coding.
Akalabeth
03/22/16 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Sterling writes:

Quote:
Akalabeth writes:

Harebrained schemes does keep asking for money through their various kickstarter, in the same way that Double Fine has financed two-three games via Kickstarter as well.



HBS kicked in a million of their own capital to make the Battletech game they're currently working on. The purpose of the Kickstarter campaign was to get the resources necessary to make it the full game experience that they wanted, and not just a one-off skirmish game.

They did this as a phased progression where certain features and milestones were added when pledges reached certain levels. The full breakdown is available on the project page over on Kickstarter (which unfortunately I cannot link to with a newly registered forum account,but if you google "battletech kickstarter" it is the first result).

I highly recommend folks take a look at it, as I think it'll speak to many of the concerns that were raised in this thread (and in my opinion are unfounded concerns). HBS has a very solid record of delivering on their Kickstarters.

Also, please allow me to reiterate that DFA is an entirely separate entity from the PC game. I'm seeing a lot of griping regarding aspects of the Twitch show being transferred over to the video game. There are no microtransactions, and no pay to win elements of any kind.



Yeah I kickstarted the Battletech game and both of the Shadowrun games. I do so because they have a good track record so I view it more as a pre-order than anything else. But it is a bit odd to keep going back to the well for some more cash.

That said, there are some other practices which I despise even more. I kickstarted Massive Chalice for example from DF, and what I disliked about that game is that they put it into Early Access before releasing it. That to me was sort of dipping from two different wells. I don't think HBS has done anything like that yet though.

People will certainly disagree with what HBS is doing. But it's pretty par for the course in gaming today unfortunately. Another board game company for example just kickstarted a new expansion for their tabletop wargame. They kickstarted this game, despite having published 3-4 games previously and despite also getting a steady cash flow from Patreon. I understand KSing the first game, but doing more games beyond that seems out of place.

HBS's excuse both with Hong Kong and Battletech is that "we'll make this game, you'll help to make it better". How much truth there is to that I don't know but as long as they deliver a good game I'll give it a pass. If it were another company with another track record, I would probably not be as forgiving.

Quote:
ghostrider writes:
Even thins like steam. Can't stand the fact you have to log into that crap the moment you boot up if you have civilization 5 installed. I hate anything that is constantly online looking for things. I had an issue starting civilization 5 when I first got it. Online activation took almost 3 hours as the steam servers would not finish the install. Keep having issues at 99% most of the time. So I will not be buying another game that needs steam to do anything.




That's why I buy all my games from GOG.com
They don't have a lot of the newer games, with most of their library being older games or indies, but they're all DRM free. They have th Shadowrun games and will likely have the new Battletech game as well.


Edited by Akalabeth (03/22/16 03:15 PM)
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