Rules Question: ProtoMech AC's and Special Munitions?

Pages: 1
happyguy49
06/05/16 08:44 AM
98.30.242.159

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Basically, can the autocannon "special munitions"

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Special_Munitions

i.e, precision, armor-piercing, flak, smoke, tracer, etc. be used by ProtoMech Autocannons? I've got two apparently contradictory citations from rules and one strongly supporting bit of fluff from a book design. Here goes.

From "TechManual" (the entry on Autocannon, page 208): "Only standard and light autocannons may make use of specialized ammo beyond LB-X cluster munitions. LB-X cluster munitions may be used only by LB-X AC types, which may also use standard AC ammo (but no other special ammo types). Ultra and rotary ACs may not use specialized ammo." (ProtoMech Autocannons aren't mentioned in TechManual.)

however, in "Tactical Operations", (the entry on ProtoMech Autocannons, page 286): "ProtoMech Autocannons use the same rules as standard autocannons."

As for the supporting fluff, it comes from the entry in "TRO: Prototypes" for the Clan Ghost Bear Ursus 3, page 146. It is armed with two ProtoMech AC/8's. From the "Capabilities" section:

"...the new ProtoMech autocannons in the right arm can use a variety of munitions, including Inner Sphere-made flechette rounds against people or armor-piercing rounds against buildings."

Protomech Autocannons weren't introduced yet in TechManual, but later in Tactical Operations. Does the later book (TacOps) therefore overrule the earlier book (TechManual)? I think that would normally be the case, with the TRO published fluff tipping the scale. (My personal opinion is that they SHOULD be able to use specialty ammo.. cause they are somewhat terrible in other respects.) I'd appreciate anyone weighing in Cheers!
Shadrak
07/22/16 12:15 AM
98.101.165.111

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Without a hard input from a developer I would say special munitions are usable with ProtoMech ACs...

That is what I do.

The rule that applies is that the newer publication (in this case, Tactical Operations) trumps the older publication in cases of discrepancies.
Akalabeth
07/24/16 10:14 PM
108.180.183.124

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
I dunno, in the construction rules in Tac Ops (p 285), it says that the autocannons listed can only use their normal munitions unless otherwise noted. And for the Protomech AC it doesn't specifically say that it can use special munitions. So I would actually tend to say no and believe that the Ursus 3 TRO entry is wrong.

But you'd need to ask a developer on bg.battletech.com to be sure
happyguy49
07/25/16 09:25 AM
98.30.242.159

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
I looked through the answered questions on the official forums, and in a reference to a Tac Ops errata, protomech ACs can indeed use special ammunition. Cool beans!
AmaroqStarwind
03/26/18 03:20 AM
174.235.19.144

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Guess it's time for me to update the wiki page.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus

The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
TigerShark
03/26/18 02:08 PM
12.130.166.32

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
The question of whether the specialty munitions are even being made is unanswered, though. A ProtoMech AC/2 doesn't use the same munitions as a standard AC/2. If it did, it would have the exact, same range brackets. i.e.: whether you fire a 7.62x39 cartridge from an AK-47 or an SKS, they have the same range.

The ProtoMech version seems to have bulkier and less-efficient rounds (40 per ton vs 45 in the standard AC/2). So if they did use Precision ammo, it would need to be specifically manufactured for this gun, IMO. EDIT: Rules for quality degradation exist in StratOps. Very cool.


Edited by TigerShark (03/26/18 02:09 PM)
AmaroqStarwind
03/27/18 12:21 PM
174.235.19.144

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Ammo Per Ton is weight, not bulk. And the shorter range is because of a shorter barrel. Take a look at Light Autocannons.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus

The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
ghostrider
03/27/18 11:54 PM
66.74.61.223

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
You miss something about ballistics suggesting the short range is do to barrel length.
The more charge you put behind the shell, the further it should go.
The barrel length would be more for precision.

As for the original thoughts, some munitions seem like they would be available to all types of weapons that can use them. A ppc will not be able to use smoke rounds, even catching a forest on fire.

But the whole idea of this shows the look great, but doesn't really fit continuity in the game.
The fact the ac 2 is only 3.5 tons and range of 20 shows the issues of the game developing.


Edited by ghostrider (03/27/18 11:57 PM)
TigerShark
03/29/18 05:54 PM
12.130.166.32

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
It's definitely about bulk as well.

2,000 lbs / 40 = 50 lbs per shot
2,000 lbs / 45 = 44.4 lbs per shot

That's why the bin can only fit 40 rounds as opposed to a normal AC/2's 45. Unless you have a different theory about why a 1-ton bin can only hold 40 shots using the same ammo?


Edited by TigerShark (03/29/18 06:05 PM)
ghostrider
03/30/18 05:59 PM
66.74.61.223

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Tigershark is correct that bulk has to be included into the figures.
Took me a few minutes to figure out why special munitions has less per round then normal ammo, and how it would work.
Length of the shell would be why they have less ammo in the bin.

As for the difference in number of shot between the ac 2 and the protomechs ac 2 means it has to be different ammo, yet doesn't say it is.
And that goes back to other arguments, but that is another thread.
Pages: 1
Extra information
0 registered and 38 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Topic views: 6434


Contact Admins Sarna.net