Panther IIC

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Requiemking
09/12/16 04:08 AM
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Type/Model: Panther IIC
Tech: Clan / 3088
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Experimental tech

Mass: 35 tons
Chassis: Clan Endo Steel
Power Plant: Clan 280 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Jump Jets: 4 Class V
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor Type: Clan Stealth
Armament:
1 ER PPC
2 Improved Heavy Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Alshain Weapons
Location: Jarett
Communications System: Series D8 CC-25X With Clan ECM
Targeting & Tracking System: Series XXX Multitrack

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Panther IIC PNT-IIC
Mass: 35 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 58 pts Endo Steel 14 2
Engine: 280 XL Fusion 12 11
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 4 .00
Armor Factor: 104 pts Clan Stealth 0 6.5

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3/ 9
Center Torso: 11/ 14
Center Torso (Rear): 7
L/R Side Torso: 8 / 10/10
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 5/5
L/R Arm: 6/ 10/10
L/R Leg: 8/ 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER PPC/ RA/ 15/ 3/ 7.00
1 Improved Heavy Medium Laser/ RT/ 7/ 2/ 1.00
1 Improved Heavy Medium Laser/ LT/ 7/ 2/ 1.00
1 Clan ECM/ CT/ 1/ 1
--------------------------------------------------------

Notes: Designed by the Rasalhague Dominion as a replacement for their ageing Panthers, the Panther IIC is a complete redesign of the older models. A lightweight Clan Endosteel structure frees up considerable space, while an all energy loadout consisting of an ERPPC and two improved heavy medium lasers allow the Panther IIC to operate on extended missions. The most radical change of all is the inclusion of Clan stealth armour. This allows the Panther IIC to execute long-range sneak attacks with ease. With an XL 280 engine providing considerable speed and four Jumpjets allowing for jumps of 120 meters, the Panther IIC is a mobile, stealthy hunter and a terror to enemy units.


Edited by Requiemking (09/13/16 03:05 AM)
CrayModerator
09/12/16 06:00 PM
72.189.109.30

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Quote:
Requiemking writes:

Name: Panther IIC
Mass: 35 tons
Chassis: Clan XL
Power Plant: 315 XL engine
Cruising Speed: XXX(I don't actually know how to calculate this)




Once you know your walking movement points (engine rating / tonnage), you can multiply the movement points by 10.8kph to find out the speed in kilometers per hour. You have 9 walking MP, so you walk at up to 97.2kph.

Running speed movement points is walking MP x 1.5, rounded up. That'd be 14 in your case, so maximum speed in kph is 151.2kph, which you already listed.

Note that most readers here prefer a more detailed readout so they can review the tonnage of all components and armor placement. Happyguy has a detailed example:
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/181312/page/0
And Karagin has a beautifully formatted one here:
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/181289/an/0/page/0#181289

An easy way to mirror that formatting is to go into a thread like Karagin's, hit reply to his original post, and then copy the whole technical readout into a thread you've started. By using the preview function before posting, you'll be able to fiddle with things until all the columns line up.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Requiemking
09/12/16 07:21 PM
70.77.94.142

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Ok, I'll edit the original post with that in mind.
Karagin
09/13/16 01:24 AM
116.44.84.2

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Or he can get Heavy Metal Pro or one the other Mech builder programs and use those. Which allows for the text info to be shared. Lots of options out there. Lots...in fact I need to get my BT stuff organized again...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.


Edited by Karagin (09/13/16 01:25 AM)
ghostrider
09/13/16 01:49 AM
66.74.61.223

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Do you have any of the rule books?
For an xl engine in a mech, the normal fusion engine, for this example the 315, is 21.5 tons, so the xl version is half that rounded up to the nearest half ton, so 11 tons. This is on page 112 of the battletech master rules. Page 111 has a full list of fusion engines as well as the xl weights.
Now the particular rule book I quoted from does NOT have the newer items in it, as it was done during the initial clan invasion, so things like heavy lasers and such are not there.

The endo steel should weight 1.75 tons. as it is half of the 3.5 tons the normal internal uses.
Also the gyro should be 4 tons, if it used a 205-300 sized engine, it would be 3 tons.
And it looks like you forgot to add in the jump jet weights. For mechs 55 tons and under, they are .5 tons. So 2 more tons right there.
With those things fixed, you are 3.25 tons over weight.

Dropping to 8/12 movement means you go to 8 tons with the 280 rated xl engine, and 3 tons with the gyro. This option would give you .75 tons left for something else.

Not sure how you want to go to fix this. The engine is the easiest way to do it without changing armor or weapons.

Shouldn't have a problem with critical spaces, but I don't know how much the stealth armor takes up, if any.

There are some programs out there that do mech stats, but I have not used any of them.


Edited by ghostrider (09/13/16 01:52 AM)
Requiemking
09/13/16 03:05 AM
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I've modified the original post.
happyguy49
09/13/16 08:57 AM
98.30.242.159

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If I recall correctly, the Clan ER PPC is only 6 tons, not 7. That gives you an extra ton to work with! Something like either a couple more jump jets, or a third Improved Heavy Medium for close range wreckoning.
Requiemking
09/13/16 11:15 PM
70.77.94.142

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Ok, I'll modify it here.
Requiemking
09/14/16 01:22 AM
70.77.94.142

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Quote:
Requiemking writes:

Type/Model: Panther IIC
Tech: Clan / 3088
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Experimental tech

Mass: 35 tons
Chassis: Clan Endo Steel
Power Plant: Clan 280 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Jump Jets: 4 Class V
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor Type: Clan Stealth
Armament:
1 ER PPC
2 Improved Heavy Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Alshain Weapons
Location: Jarett
Communications System: Series D8 CC-25X With Clan ECM
Targeting & Tracking System: Series XXX Multitrack

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Panther IIC PNT-IIC
Mass: 35 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 58 pts Endo Steel 14 2
Engine: 280 XL Fusion 12 11
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sinks: 11 Double [22] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 4 .00
Armor Factor: 104 pts Clan Stealth 0 6.5

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3/ 9
Center Torso: 11/ 14
Center Torso (Rear): 7
L/R Side Torso: 8 / 10/10
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 5/5
L/R Arm: 6/ 10/10
L/R Leg: 8/ 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER PPC/ RA/ 15/ 3/ 6.00
1 Improved Heavy Medium Laser/ RT/ 7/ 2/ 1.00
1 Improved Heavy Medium Laser/ LT/ 7/ 2/ 1.00
1 Clan ECM/ CT/ 1/ 1
--------------------------------------------------------

Notes: Designed by the Rasalhague Dominion as a replacement for their ageing Panthers, the Panther IIC is a complete redesign of the older models. A lightweight Clan Endosteel structure frees up considerable space, while an all energy loadout consisting of an ERPPC and two improved heavy medium lasers allow the Panther IIC to operate on extended missions. The most radical change of all is the inclusion of Clan stealth armour. This allows the Panther IIC to execute long-range sneak attacks with ease. With an XL 280 engine providing considerable speed and four Jumpjets allowing for jumps of 120 meters, the Panther IIC is a mobile, stealthy hunter and a terror to enemy units.

I now have to make further edits like this because I'm no longer allowed to edit the original post.
ghostrider
09/14/16 01:46 AM
66.74.61.223

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Just don't get discouraged. It is easy to do, as trying to get things straightened out can get on your nerves at times.
Once done, you will be able to do it faster and easier.

I admit, I am one of those that likes to be able to see everything with a glance. Some aren't as concerned, since their end has all the information needed to use the unit, from some of the programs.
As for the mech itself, it does look to be useful. Really changes the idea of the panther.
Used to be slow for a light mech, with the ppc giving it a good punch. Only thing I can think of that is slower or close to the same speed for light mechs is the urbanmech.
If not for heat issues, I would think that keeping with long range strikes would use ermls or maybe an lrm system.
Don't get me wrong, the heavy lasers are good in normal ranges. But the clan ppc has no minimum, so can be used point blank. Might be good for a variant.
Requiemking
09/14/16 04:30 PM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

Just don't get discouraged. It is easy to do, as trying to get things straightened out can get on your nerves at times.
Once done, you will be able to do it faster and easier.

I admit, I am one of those that likes to be able to see everything with a glance. Some aren't as concerned, since their end has all the information needed to use the unit, from some of the programs.
As for the mech itself, it does look to be useful. Really changes the idea of the panther.
Used to be slow for a light mech, with the ppc giving it a good punch. Only thing I can think of that is slower or close to the same speed for light mechs is the urbanmech.
If not for heat issues, I would think that keeping with long range strikes would use ermls or maybe an lrm system.
Don't get me wrong, the heavy lasers are good in normal ranges. But the clan ppc has no minimum, so can be used point blank. Might be good for a variant.


I might just design two for the Panther IIC. One for more of a long-range combat style, one for more of a close-range, aggressive style.
ghostrider
09/14/16 09:53 PM
66.74.61.223

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If you know anything about the omni mech concept, it may be wise to make this an omni. It will increase the costs some, but you could actually use a few variants with just leaving a set amount for weapons, ammo, electronics, jump jets and heat sinks above the 10 that come with the engine. The rest would remain the same.
This would allow a mix and match that is the cornerstone of the clans omni mechs.

If you wanted the 4 jets permanent, then hard mount them, and don't put the wieght into the pod space. I don't believe there is any innersphere mechs that were made into the IIC design that uses the omni set up. Then again, I don't have anything past the 3067 era for tros.

Not sure how many of the others feel about it, but it would be nice for some of them to chime in.
KamikazeJohnson
09/15/16 10:28 PM
24.114.38.28

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

If you know anything about the omni mech concept, it may be wise to make this an omni. It will increase the costs some, but you could actually use a few variants with just leaving a set amount for weapons, ammo, electronics, jump jets and heat sinks above the 10 that come with the engine. The rest would remain the same.
This would allow a mix and match that is the cornerstone of the clans omni mechs.

If you wanted the 4 jets permanent, then hard mount them, and don't put the wieght into the pod space. I don't believe there is any innersphere mechs that were made into the IIC design that uses the omni set up. Then again, I don't have anything past the 3067 era for tros.

Not sure how many of the others feel about it, but it would be nice for some of them to chime in.



This being a Panther, I'd mount the PPC on the base chassis, leave pod space entirely for the secondary weapon systems. That way, each variant in distinctly a Panther. But that's me...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Requiemking
09/16/16 02:20 AM
70.77.94.142

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Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:

Quote:
ghostrider writes:

If you know anything about the omni mech concept, it may be wise to make this an omni. It will increase the costs some, but you could actually use a few variants with just leaving a set amount for weapons, ammo, electronics, jump jets and heat sinks above the 10 that come with the engine. The rest would remain the same.
This would allow a mix and match that is the cornerstone of the clans omni mechs.

If you wanted the 4 jets permanent, then hard mount them, and don't put the wieght into the pod space. I don't believe there is any innersphere mechs that were made into the IIC design that uses the omni set up. Then again, I don't have anything past the 3067 era for tros.

Not sure how many of the others feel about it, but it would be nice for some of them to chime in.



This being a Panther, I'd mount the PPC on the base chassis, leave pod space entirely for the secondary weapon systems. That way, each variant in distinctly a Panther. But that's me...


Well, I was thinking of having three versions of the Panther IIC. The first one, which I designed in the above post, is a bit more of a generalist, capable of delivering a solid punch at any range. The next variant, the PNT-IIC-A, would be more of a cool-running build, swapping the Improved Heavy Medium Lasers for ER Medium Lasers. Not much of a modification, but makes it a little cooler running in close quarters. However, it is the third variant that excites me. The PNT-IIC-B. This variant is a radical change from the Panther IIC's normal role. It drops the ERPPC for two more Improved Heavy Medium Lasers, and spends the remaining tonnage on an increased engine size. This makes the Panther IIC into a terrifying hit-and-run striker, as well as a solid duelling mech in my opinion.
ghostrider
09/16/16 12:12 PM
66.74.61.223

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You may have to add in a few more heat sinks using 4 heavy mls. From the looks 7 heat each will overpower the 10 or even 11 double sinks quickly if you use 4 of them. Not including movement, which 4 jets is another 4 heat.

As these are all suggestions, you don't have to do a single thing. Keep the mech to your original specs. The main thing was the weight issues.
Omnis are good for weapon packages, since one unit can do most varients. When changing engine sizes or armor points, then you can't use the omni option.
Where I do agree the Panther feel has always been the ppc, There is nothing wrong with using something else. Just wouldn't feel like the Panther.

Now if you wanted a closer feel, using a streak srm 4 pack would help. Some would suggest a clan normal 4 pack and use the weight saved for something else, which is another option, I think the lock or no fire would help with heat management. I think the fire support option for the mech would be better, but that is me. The speed with the xl engine makes it as dangerous as the Jenner for the speed. If you want a dueling mech, the shorter ranged weapons make sense. Not sure if the heavy lasers is the best way to go, but that is me. The damage they do can not be ignored.
Retry
09/16/16 08:12 PM
129.237.108.67

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Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:

Quote:
ghostrider writes:

If you know anything about the omni mech concept, it may be wise to make this an omni. It will increase the costs some, but you could actually use a few variants with just leaving a set amount for weapons, ammo, electronics, jump jets and heat sinks above the 10 that come with the engine. The rest would remain the same.
This would allow a mix and match that is the cornerstone of the clans omni mechs.

If you wanted the 4 jets permanent, then hard mount them, and don't put the wieght into the pod space. I don't believe there is any innersphere mechs that were made into the IIC design that uses the omni set up. Then again, I don't have anything past the 3067 era for tros.

Not sure how many of the others feel about it, but it would be nice for some of them to chime in.



This being a Panther, I'd mount the PPC on the base chassis, leave pod space entirely for the secondary weapon systems. That way, each variant in distinctly a Panther. But that's me...



What precisely would be the point of Panther Omnification if you're just going to mount most of the equipment (in this case the primary gun, ERPPC) on the base chassis anyways? Picking if you want the other guy's PBI's chunky, creamy, or fried?
Requiemking
09/17/16 03:09 PM
70.77.94.142

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

You may have to add in a few more heat sinks using 4 heavy mls. From the looks 7 heat each will overpower the 10 or even 11 double sinks quickly if you use 4 of them. Not including movement, which 4 jets is another 4 heat.

As these are all suggestions, you don't have to do a single thing. Keep the mech to your original specs. The main thing was the weight issues.
Omnis are good for weapon packages, since one unit can do most varients. When changing engine sizes or armor points, then you can't use the omni option.
Where I do agree the Panther feel has always been the ppc, There is nothing wrong with using something else. Just wouldn't feel like the Panther.

Now if you wanted a closer feel, using a streak srm 4 pack would help. Some would suggest a clan normal 4 pack and use the weight saved for something else, which is another option, I think the lock or no fire would help with heat management. I think the fire support option for the mech would be better, but that is me. The speed with the xl engine makes it as dangerous as the Jenner for the speed. If you want a dueling mech, the shorter ranged weapons make sense. Not sure if the heavy lasers is the best way to go, but that is me. The damage they do can not be ignored.



Well, the reason I chose not to make the Panther IIC an omni is because, as far as I know, none of the IICs are omnis. I chose to drop the SRMs because I feel that the weight they take up could be better used for something else, plus I imagine the Panther as an ambushing headhunter, and having your only backup weapon be ammo dependant really hurts that purpose in my opinion.

As for the IIC-B, the reason I came up with that design is because of what I know about the Clan's style of combat. The Panther is a sniper, and as far as I know, Clans hate that style of combat, hence the fluff for the IIC-B is that it was designed with the Dominion's Clan warriors in mind. Plus, I have an idea forming for a hero mech for this chassis.
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