It is offical, the Palladium Games RRT Kickstarter and Game is dead

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Karagin
02/28/18 11:39 AM
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So back in 2013 Palladium Games comes out and has this Kickstarter for Robotech Roleplaying Tactics, aka their miniatures game for Robotech, okay cool Robotech was one of the 80s cartoons that I would get up on Saturday to watch at 6am in Richmond VA and enjoyed. Cool a check to miniatures I can use for both this game and BT as well, double win. Hey even better I can a MAC II out the deal...did I mention Palladium Games was doing this?

So fast forward, the game that was promised in 2014 arrives in 2015 and then from that point forward excuse after excuse over Wave 2 has been pushed out from Kevin and company. We have heard everything from weather issues, to the Chinese New Year to factory issues, to customs issues to 3D model issues, to them blaming other folks and even trying to use another member of their team who well tried to commite suicide for reasons that Kevin made public in a rant that attacked the backers because we called them on their excuses and how it was our fault that this tragic event happen.

Now here it is 2018 and today we get notice that Wave 2 won't happen and that PG has lost the their licenses, again, to sell any thing related to Robotech. So their offering to meet the Kickstarter is to offer Wave One items in place of Wave 2, and yet they want the backers to fork out shipping and handling of these cause the cost is something PG can't cover.

So many are stuck with getting just what they put in, none of the extras that were pushed as if you give us the extra money you can unlock...and nope. And they also removed some of the extras from folks' orders and that has cause more to get mad, me included. So their offering is this you have credit, say you picked a Wave 2 package that should have netted you several things, but their math seems to think you only have $30 worth of credit, so you can get ONE box of Wave One miniatures and shipping and that is it.

How Palladium has stayed in business this long is beyond understanding and how Harmony Gold didn't step in and do something is also a bit of puzzlement, but all I can say is I learned two things, never do business with Harmony Gold and two think twice about supporting a Kickstarter again.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.


Edited by Karagin (02/28/18 11:40 AM)
wolf_lord_30
03/09/18 02:30 AM
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I bought the rulebook for cheap off of eBay. Haven't had a chance to play it yet, even after 6 months. I did do a bit of work downloading everything I could from Drivethrurpg and then formatting them so I have pieces to use on my computer using Battlegrounds RPG.
But yeah, that is really low that they pulled that on people.
AmaroqStarwind
04/01/18 04:21 PM
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I still have all the First Edition Robotech RPG books (including Sentinels)... Been meaning to grab Second Edition and Tactics as well.

I have actually been wanting to do a BattleTech campaign where a group of humans, for whatever strange reason, decided to venture out beyond the Periphery... And then they start encountering all the various alien races from the Robotech universe.

The premise behind the adventure is simple; BattleTech and Robotech aren't completely separate universes, they're just different timelines within a larger universe. The reason humans took so long to invent BattleMechs (and never got attacked by aliens) in the BattleTech timeline is because a certain alien ship never crashed into their planet, meaning they didn't get a technological head start, and they also didn't get a giant bullseye painted on their planet for aliens to see.

One obstacle to writing the adventure, though is trying to keep things balanced when humans fight different aliens (so that nobody is too severely overpowered/underpowered without some weaknesses/strengths to counteract that), and another obstacle is trying to come up with backstories to explain where the hell each of these alien races was (and what they were doing this whole time) in the BattleTech timeline. Right now, the only thing I have set in stone at the moment is that the Zentraedi have turned to in-fighting over the last millennium because there's nobody left to conquer...

In order to flesh out these races, I actually want to look into the expanded universes and original plots for the three component shows that became Robotech, that way I have something to help me fill in the many gaps (did you know that in the original Southern Cross, the plot is that humans set up a colony on an alien planet and started terraforming it without permission?)
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Karagin
04/01/18 07:25 PM
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Yes well aware that what is called Robotech/Southern Cross is not the same as what it is in Japan, three different movies meshed together to make up the world of Robotech.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
AmaroqStarwind
04/02/18 03:24 AM
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Macross and New Generation (Genesis Climber Mospeada) were both pretty faithful to the originals, though.
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wolf_lord_30
04/02/18 11:34 AM
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Palladium still has their sale going on for it. Trying to get rid of it all. What's funny, though, is Saturday was supposed to be their last day of the sale. And yet, as of 10:30 EST today, it was still ongoing. I almost bought some of their stuff, but just couldn't follow through with it.
ATN082268
04/02/18 03:02 PM
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I've always been a little wary of Kickstarters in general. If it is such a good idea, why not put up your own money to do it? People who subsidize Kickstarters are like investors but without any of the benefits of one...
AmaroqStarwind
04/02/18 11:38 PM
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The Robotech RPG Tactics miniatures are alright for Unseen 'mechs. Not the greatest build quality, but very detailed. The scale for some of them might be a little off, though.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/02/18 11:48 PM
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Actually, I wonder...

How insulted do you think Harmony Gold would be if Catalyst Game Labs gave them (or Palladium) a free license to make BattleTech products?
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Karagin
04/03/18 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Actually, I wonder...

How insulted do you think Harmony Gold would be if Catalyst Game Labs gave them (or Palladium) a free license to make BattleTech products?



Doing business with Palladium is a very BAD idea, they can't do simple right and they have yet to get anything out on time. They are pretty much moving to being the new pariah in the gaming community at the rate they have been traveling at these last 5 years.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
AmaroqStarwind
04/03/18 02:56 AM
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No, no... Valve will forever hold that title. Still waiting on Half-Life 2: Episode 3...
I was still in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL when Episode 2 came out.
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Akalabeth
04/16/18 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Actually, I wonder...

How insulted do you think Harmony Gold would be if Catalyst Game Labs gave them (or Palladium) a free license to make BattleTech products?



Doing business with Palladium is a very BAD idea, they can't do simple right and they have yet to get anything out on time. They are pretty much moving to being the new pariah in the gaming community at the rate they have been traveling at these last 5 years.



Given that Catalyst doesn't give release dates and their starter box for Battletech has been out of print for more than a year I'm not sure that criticizing another company for tardiness is appropriate on this forum.

Also it's unclear how much of the RRT tactics boondoggle is on Palladium and how much of it is on Ninja Division. From what I could tell Palladium just sublicensed the game to ND, and they were creating it- so . . . people on other forums have claimed that Palladium screwed it up, not ND, but I've not seen evidence to that anywhere.


Edited by Akalabeth (04/16/18 04:44 PM)
Karagin
04/17/18 12:31 AM
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Really? Have you actually read the stuff Palladium put and it seems you have and bought it, they screwed up things, Ninja Division quit while they could and this AFTER they told Kevin and company why things were going wrong and Kevin didn't listen. I can see that you are support of Kevin based on your last comment above. Well hey I will call it as I see Kevin screwed folks out of money, lied, misled and out right tried to BS his way out of paying back refunds, and I wouldn't be surprised if he spent the KS money to shore up RIFTS and the other PB games. But if you feel it wasn't Kevin's fault, well I guess you can believe that, but the facts of the matter speak far more that Kevin DID indeed screw up and made what should have been a simple case of presenting a fun game with miniatures into a nightmare of 5 years of lies and BS, that most were calling out with in the first year.

So yes I think warning folks away from Palladium Books is a good thing, since they managed in 5 years to sour more people towards Robotech then Harmony Gold has every done.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Akalabeth
04/17/18 07:17 AM
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I don't support Kevin, he's just a name I've heard from time to time, I just want to know where the evidence is that he screwed it up not Ninja Division. You say Ninja Division told Kevin such and such, where is this information? What decisions did Kevin make that were against what ND wanted to do? You cite that there are facts? What are these facts and where is the information found?

I mean was it Kevin who decided that the miniatures should be a million pieces? That's the biggest problem with the quality of the game I found. Literally like 18 pieces just to build a basic destroid. Massive pain. That and some of the pieces are just too thin to survive any kind of use. Did Kevin decide the Glaug's elbow be super tiny?
Karagin
04/17/18 11:38 AM
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The information is on several Robotech Facebook pages as well as the Kickstarter page. Also Kevin did his best to **** blame from PB to ND in several of the updates to which ND responded back on in an open letter about the issue. PB per Kevin's actions CUT Ninja Division out of the process and stopped working with them when Kevin felt he could milk the cow even more, by splitting things up. Wave one items came out late but out, they were a mess, ND was then cut from the picture, and then starts the odyssey of lies, counter lies, excuxes like it's Chinese New Year that is why the stuff was late in 2015, or typhoon in the South Pacific that's why it was late later on in 2015 etc..

I suggest your reading of the updates on the Kickstarter page, which is still up. The count for the figures in pieces was approved by PB and Kevin was happy with it. Maybe you missed the whole debacle where another person who was trying to do a RIFTS KS and threaten the whole RRT group that if we didn't support his game he would not do anything to help us or get Kevin to actually do his job, then said person tries to commit suicide and Kevin proceeds to blame those of us who had become upset at PB's failings and lack of action. He publicly did this in an UPDATE about RRT and you expect folks not to point out Kevin's short comings?

You want the info, read the Kickstarter stuff, go to Facebook join these two pages
https://www.facebook.com/groups/772684339447170/?ref=bookmarks

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1440349382851175/?ref=bookmarks

And read the postings look for the ones that say updates and read about the BULL that was shoveled out to excuse their actions of NOT doing what we gave them money to do.

And again Kevin DID sign off on parts count and in one of the updates he defended it as well that was fastest and cheapest way to get the products out.

So go read the 289 updates for the RRT KS and you will see the nightmare and then come tell me that it's still wrong to point out PB's short falls and lack of concern to keep a customer base happy and supportive.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Akalabeth
04/17/18 05:08 PM
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Thanks I'll check the links.

Few points, the fact that Kevin signed off on the parts count is irrelevant. If Ninja Division is a miniature company, surely Kevin who makes books would be trusting them to do a good job, so- if the miniatures sucked its on them not on Palladium I would say. The fact that he's defending it doesn't really mean he's responsible for the original decision. Now if Kevin was pushing for higher piece counts that were more complicated or was otherwise meddling in a subject that he knows less about then they do then yeah it's his fault but from what you're saying that's not the case.

As for the Rifts Kickstarter, yeah I know about that and read the update when it came out. It's drama, but it's wholly irrelevant to the Robotech kickstarter and the game was already on full stalling mode when that happened.

If Robotech failed as a game, I don't think it was a distribution problem which would be Palladium's job to do because I saw it in plenty of stores. And the starter box seemed to be well priced with good value, 100 CDN for two armies. It would instead be down to the game and its components and from what I know the responsibility for that falls on Ninja Division.

The Kickstarter itself failed because they expected Wave 2 components to be paid from a successful launch of the game using Wave 1 stuff- now, that is probably a Palladium decision. BUT- that still doesn't account for the game not catching on.

I can't imagine any miniature gamer was happy with those miniatures, the piece count was simply through the roof.
AmaroqStarwind
04/18/18 03:35 AM
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When I first saw Robotech RPG Tactics, it was at a game and comic store a year-and-a-half ago. I didn't pick it up though, as much as I wanted to (I still jealously guard my first edition Robotech RPG books) because my dad had just gotten me BattleTech for my Birthday.

On the subject of Robotech, though, in 1994, somebody actually recreated the Southern Cross Veritech Hover Tank in BattleTech, and even used custom rules for it. Attachment (38 downloads)
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AmaroqStarwind
04/18/18 03:38 AM
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By the way (because the Edit button is literally unclickable on my phone, and also due to copyright laws), I am unable to share the two previous pages (which have all of the fluff and rules) in a single post, but I can email the PDF (or just those missing pages) on private request. The pages are from my watermarked digital copy of Mecha Press #13.
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wolf_lord_30
07/07/18 08:25 PM
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Miniature Market is having a good sale on all Robotech Tactics minis. And has preorders available for new games with the Robotech name.

I may have also taken the stats from the rulebook and converted them into megamek just so I can play a version of the game. It doesn't translate the best, but seems to be a fun enough mix of RT and BT. Now I just have to figure out how to create decent sprites for the Zentradi.

And on another failed kickstarter note, Space Goat Productions totally botched both their Evil Dead card game and their Terminator game. Something about not enough equity. They said they needed 120k, got 220k, and last month, I think, they sent out an update that it was killed. And that right there is why I don't like the idea of backing games before they're done. Even for HBS BT I waited and paid a little more for the peace of mind it was really coming.
Karagin
07/09/18 07:52 PM
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I hear you. So far the only Kickstarter that has proven to me that they know what they are doing has been Reaper Games and their CAV and Bones stuff. I put my money in, I got what they promised and I was not lied to or misled and when things hit snags they told us, had solutions and moved forward, unlike PB.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Rotwang
07/27/18 11:18 AM
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Quote:
I hear you. So far the only Kickstarter that has proven to me that they know what they are doing has been Reaper Games and their CAV and Bones stuff. I put my money in, I got what they promised and I was not lied to or misled and when things hit snags they told us, had solutions and moved forward, unlike PB.



Reaper is an established company, they have the means and the experience to produce models and can very effectively calculate what it will cost and how long it will take. They are not a first time company that has to outsource everything only to discover that everything goes wrong and massively over budget and their business model turns out to have a hole to drive an Atlas through.
Karagin
07/28/18 06:09 PM
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Palladium isn't a first time company nor is Ninja Division, the issue came when Kevin S. felt he knew more then a company that dealt in miniature games (ND) did. That and PB's inability to handle money worth a damn added to the issues. A simple reading of the BS that were the updates during the Kickstarter clearly shows that.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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