Requiem
04/16/18 12:53 AM
58.175.193.140
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Consider the State of the Inner Sphere prior to the one year lull in hostilities and the availability of resources / manufacturers of ‘Mechs …
During this one year lull each House would forbid the production of new single weapon designed ‘mechs (given their poor performance so far) in favour of that of omni mechs …
(This being another huge plot hole – each successor states at this time would have salvaged clan omni ‘mechs and thus …. )
Considering the advantages of fielding an omni over a standard ‘mech (ability to repair (replacement parts) / rearmament for mission specifics / efficiency increased and costs decreased etc ) – one unit with only a couple of ‘omni designs could last longer and inflict more damage as their spare-parts availability (even cannibalizing one for another) wold be above that of units with multiple ‘mech designs that require specialised parts from a limited number of manufactories all throughout the IS.
I would therefore contest that all Houses would begin a crash course within all their most effective battlemech (at the most earliest point in time/availability of clan salvage) factories to either take an existing design and convert to omni (i.e Firestarter) or design a new omni that would not require a great deal of maintenance to each ‘mech manufactory to convert over - thus producing the largest quantity in the quickest possible of time.
The Inner Sphere would also consider (at the same time) the dimensions of clan weapons pods and their interface units with their ‘mechs operating system thus in the event clan weapon pods are obtained they can be quickly interfaced into IS omni 'mechs weapon systems.
Rather than allowing multiple new Battlemech production facilities to be established , therefore reducing their Houses overall available resources as well as reducing their effectiveness on the front line due to having only a single weapon system.
Thus over time Front line units would swap out their single frame units to that of an IS omni.
Then over time their single framed ‘mechs could be utilized to establish new second line units (sold to mercenary units).
Requiem
Adelaide, Australia
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
07/06/18 12:17 AM
58.175.193.140
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Omi-Mechs allow for tactical flexibility by modifying the weapons package to fit the mission parameters;
Omni-Mechs allow for ease of maintenance and battlefield repair;
Omni-Mechs allow the state to purchase an economically viable weapons package – more bang for your buck (thus you can purchase more ‘Mechs – More RCTs etc) ;
Just because your Mk1 Omnis are not considered to be perfect does not mean the entire project should be disbanded – have a look at the WOB Omnis (though most have a design error when it comes to the claws – have a look at the rules for these and then look at their critical slots for these – missing something?)
As stated previously ….
All IS elite units should have been converted into anti-Clan strike forces – armed with the most advanced tech. the IS could devise. As for their former ‘Mechs – new second line units.
In addition some of the militia units should have been brought on line as regular forces …. Therefore increasing the number of regular units available.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/06/18 12:54 AM
66.74.61.223
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The argument was already done in the past.
It surfaced as someone said another board had people saying it would not reduce overhead, or the need for that many spare parts if I recall right.
Same with using the same chasis on vehicles, but just changing weapon loads. The basic suspension and such would save alot of head aches as you could stock 30 struts for one unit, instead of being forced to deal with 5 struts each for 6 units.
The pods means you can use ANY weapons made, not just ones made specifically for that unit, but having them installed in the pod. Doesn't mean you won't have issues mounting it there, but that is done behind the lines, not scrambling to change out a destroyed weapon and you have no replacements.
One of the excuses of not using omnis is the lack of tech training. Why don't the techs get trained? Because the governments don't want their secrets out there. Which doesn't explain why their loyal techs never got trained.
And I can see the crap of not wanting omnis, as it would destroy the developers ability to put out dozens of books with new mechs in them. So again. This comes down to money.
Looks like most of the writing errors follow that. To make money, you have to keep the fights going with the most weapons you can get, and not have it all being condensed into something like an omni pod.
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Requiem
07/06/18 01:21 AM
58.175.193.140
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QUOTE: …. it would not reduce overhead, or the need for that many spare parts if I recall right.
Economics.... Economies of Scale …. Purchase 4 products from for different organisations – you don’t have a competitive advantage re price; also with spare parts you have to get these from four different locations (chain theory) – costs increases due to multiple supply chains – on both cases you end up with a higher price
However, with 1 product you can reduce the cost and the cost to replacement parts due to mass production - 1, 000 widgets could cost $50 per unit ; however when you increase the cost of widgets produced to 10,000 cost per unit decreases – thus a cost savings …..and having one supply chain source will decrease the overall cost – it also will improve your stock (inventory) management procedures – again reduced costs / higher efficiency etc. The only problem is hat you could be stuck with a Monopoly company (but you can factor into it laws that will restrict them from price manipulation) .
Vehicles for example – mass produce reduction in overall cost = a better sales margin = more profit.
As for pods … they are usually mass made = lower cost … if you want a custom mount then call Battle Magic (just remember the price will increase for this one off)
Training techs as a reason why Omnis are not built … can I laugh now at the absurdity of this statement …. Omis will allow for greater number of Techs ( if you have only 6 types of omni mechs in the unit easier to train – higher efficiency) in comparison with a unit that cold have 20-30 different types of mechs all with their own parts and means of repair)
The developers …. They still could have had the books … you just include those for frontline house units and those for everyone else … so again that does not make any sense …. If that was the issue they why create an omni in the first place for the clans – they should also have the same as those in the IS more books thus more money.
No it is about hamstringing the IS yet again by the writers - Oops again !!!!!!!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (07/06/18 04:51 AM)
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ghostrider
07/06/18 12:27 PM
66.74.61.223
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I said the argument was about those principal, not that I agree with them. In fact I pointed out that they do save money and overhead.
It surfaced as someone said another board had people saying it would not reduce overhead, or the need for that many spare parts if I recall right.
See. It says another board had people. Not I said.
No oooops about it. To sell books, you need wars. To have wars, you need conflicts. Once you get to a certain point, it all starts becoming the same thing. One state runs it all, so rebellions would have to go off simultaneously to have any sort of chance of succeeding. Then assassinations of head of state. Wether it follows logic or not, this is set to sell books.
Asking a question then saying that isn't the way it has to be, looks like saying everyone's games should be done one way. Canon is what keeps everyone's game close to each other, so you could use one group in another's campaign.
You want to rip on the developers, then rip on why the rules have some huge holes in them, and weren't fixed.
The original strafe of a fighter was a full map sheet. Then after BMR they figured out it was too powerful, and reduced it to barely larger then a bombs spread?
A few games I played with fighters pretty well decided the battle, as a full map sheet, 3 hexes wide, took down a whole lot of defensive and attacking units. With that gone, alot of the battles in their history would not have gone the way they did.
The canon game says techs are not trained to deal with the omnis. especially the clan ones. When they first hit the IS, that would be true. Yet it seems mercs have the best techs as they seemed to be able to adapt quicker then the house.
Which to be honest, there should not have been parts for clantech for a while after the first strikes. No way to make them, as you need the blueprints for them.
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Requiem
07/06/18 05:35 PM
58.175.193.140
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QUOTE: To sell books, you need wars
Yes, but there are skirmishes, battles and wars – most of the wars proposed with the introduction of the Clans onwards are not that great as they lack a continuality of going from one battle to the next – Think Archers Avengers during the Civil War – that would be good (yet in the end the unit apparently disbanded)
This is what the current Cannon lacks – continuality – the long campaign.
No the developers need to be ripped on – with a little more though it could have been better – case in point the spread of Clan Tech in the IS Post Operation Serpent – not taking a copy of all clan technology + taking home many clan factories? Then rebuilding – spreading the technology to all facets within the IS – thus after 20 years the IS has a very close if not parity and in some areas better technology than the Clans – you can’t tell me that was a good idea by the developers (it is hamstringing the IS plain and simple).
Canon is not required – you don’t have to keep everyone’s games close to each other – ever played Dungeons and Dragons? This is the best Role Playing game out!
Aerospace fighters are too powerful? – what about Clan Tech Vs. Inner Sphere Cira 3050 was this too powerful too? May-bee they should have reduced both?
When aerospace fighters are sent in by one group have you sent in their opponents at the same time? What air defence units did you have on hand? Or have you removed all air assets except VTOLS? Since the introduction of air power many wars outcomes have been determined by air assets alone so why complain when there are groups more powerful than the other – again IS Vs Clans during the initial invasion of 3050 if you were IS you got kicked again and again so why not allow air assets to even the kicking ….or were you always playing the Clans and you enjoyed kicking the IS forces? So if you are going to complain about one should you not be complaining about both?
As for mercenaries having the best techs – yes they do because they can pay for the best – whereas state units are assigned their civil servant techs.
However, with my idea of sending in the commandoes to capture clan techs …. Once captured they can be assigned to your house units as bondsman, so your house units now have the best techs …. That is until the mercenaries capture their own bondsman….
As for Clan Tech Spare parts – some could be reverse engineered with the assistance of Clan techs or even fixed with IS Tech or replaced with IS tech to keep it operational – giving it a quirk or two, but it is still in the game fighting is it not? You do not need the blue prints – mechanics can work on a problem that is right in front of them and create a work around / patch / fix for the problem you don't always need blueprints.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/07/18 12:01 AM
66.74.61.223
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Have you gone to the battletech site? The one the developers might actually read?
I doubt it, as any of this would probably get a ban.
The fights we did used the few units we had. There was no bs of having 3 dozen units waiting incase there was a change in the defense. You had one mech, maybe two under your control. There was no bs of fitting the units to the fight. Then again campaigns tend to run like that. You don't swap out units because the enemy has something you can't deal with well with the current units you have.
Those games we had fighters was because we had air superiority. When we got hit by them, the enemy had it. You know. Like a raid should be. If you can take out defending fighters in a raid, then you should really think of taking the world, not just raiding it.
Clan tech, and later WOB crap was put in to give the players a strong boogie man they had to work to defeat. There is no way they could match the IS in numbers, though if they had not created the FC, they may not have needed it.
Reverse engineer is fine. It is the amount of time required to do so that is in question. There are a few things that if you pull it apart to look at it, you destroy the ability to function again.
There is a lot of ignoring the fact that intel on the clans was not there. For an alt history, that is your choice. But saying the rest have to do it outside of canon is the issue. Guess to many games of just changing out units to fit has been done. Try using very limited resources and do all the missions you do without tailoring the unit to fit that one. BV matching is bs. Use your lance against all, and not swap out anything, unless it is destroyed. Then go without.
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Requiem
07/07/18 06:00 AM
58.175.193.140
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QUOTE: I doubt it, as any of this would probably get a ban.
So, criticism isn’t allowed …. ? that’s surprising ….
QUOTE: Clan tech, and later WOB crap was put in to give the players a strong boogie man they had to work to defeat.
How did that work out?
The Clans – initial invasion – a rout comes to mind followed by being saved by the ComGuards – Followed by only taking out one of the Clans – Followed by going to the Clan Home Worlds – Capturing one planet ( though you are not allowed to bring back any technology or Manufactories) – end the war but all the planets that were captured by the clans remains with the clans – hence they are in the IS to stay forever – (Can I say from a political and a military standpoint this is quite unacceptable)
Also what did the FC or the RR get out of Operation Bulldog / Operation Serpent - did they get any worlds back? - So only the DC were a clear winner out of this joint operation - (Can I again say form a FC or RR point of view this is also unacceptable - they people died for what? an end to the war - but they still there - not going anywhere - so if you are a FC or RR how would your feel about this? P____offed?)
The WOB – The universes largest dummy spit over not being allowed to play with the cool kids in the Star League that resulted in a nuclear and chemical war together with death camps – oh what fun – you assemble your forces ready to begin the game and are told WOB Has just nuked you – you no longer exist – what ever forces survived have been sent to a re-education camp….. yay, that was a fun game!
And both the Clans and the WOB military came from nowhere to invade the inner-sphere – yes that is a believable story to get the writers out of a hole of their own making (4SW – Pax FC and Clan War – Pax Clans)
And what did we get post Jihad – a complete and utter diatribe in which you are expected to suspend reality for the creation of a new and utterly unbelievable realm and changes to the entire IS – no mechs / no mercs????
QUOTE: if you pull it apart to look at it, you destroy the ability to function again.
What a load of …….. do you believe a ‘Mechs parts are that delicate? Or their Techs are that incompetent? …. What if you got Battle Magic to do it or/ Wolfs Dragoons Techs assisted you or/ You have Clan Bondsmen to assist you or/ you have been trained in Clan tech by the any of the previous entities….. you cannot make absolute statements like that ….
For the real delicate stuff these are done in labs with teams of experts who know what they are doing – and if it is destroyed then it was done to undertake further analysis…. To further the R&D and the reverse engineering process.
For those in the field they would have been told what they can and cannot tinker with …..
As for intel on the Clans – AGAIN – for the first wave yes – but thereafter NO – we have wolfs Dragoons filling in the blanks we also have people captured on the battlefield who are subsequently interrogated (Remember the TV Comic series –they got a bond’s –woman)
Also my idea of Commandoes – Snatch and grabs – we have been over this before and yes they can acquire Clan POWs – also intelligence data grabs yes they can penetrate Clan computers and download information)
So yes there is information to think otherwise is a little naïve.
QUOTE: But saying the rest have to do it outside of canon is the issue.
No, what I am saying is choice is what is needed … just blindly following the Canon … if you want to do that fine.
But how many out there want something else, and this is what is required, the something else that others want something with a little more bite to it!
For it feels like your saying the only way to play is Canon only and if its not canon then I'm not allowed!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (07/07/18 06:53 AM)
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Cray
07/07/18 09:31 AM
67.8.230.40
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Quote:
The WOB – The universes largest dummy spit over not being allowed to play with the cool kids in the Star League that resulted in a nuclear and chemical war together with death camps – oh what fun – you assemble your forces ready to begin the game and are told WOB Has just nuked you – you no longer exist – what ever forces survived have been sent to a re-education camp….. yay, that was a fun game!
The Succession Wars were not tickle and pillow fights. They had nuclear and chemical warfare, death camps, tortuous POW camps, and more. The Jihad wasn't as deadly as the First or Second Succession Wars.
And on that note, nukes were relatively scarce in the Jihad. Most of it, even the liberation of Terra, was completed conventionally with BattleMechs.
Quote:
And both the Clans and the WOB military came from nowhere to invade the inner-sphere – yes that is a believable story to get the writers out of a hole of their own making (4SW – Pax FC and Clan War – Pax Clans)
The Clans were foreshadowed years before the 4th Succession War. The build-up to Kerensky's return began with the 1985 product "Black Widow Company."
Likewise, WoB's Jihad was telegraphed years in advance with the ComStar Sourcebook. Planning for the Jihad started when the Clan invasion was written to end at Tukayyid.
Quote:
And what did we get post Jihad – a complete and utter diatribe in which you are expected to suspend reality for the creation of a new and utterly unbelievable realm and changes to the entire IS – no mechs / no mercs????
That statement has a couple of errors in its premise.
1) The Dark Ages featured plentiful mercs and 'Mechs, even division-scale 'Mech battles. The Republic of the Sphere tried to ban personally-owned 'Mechs, not 'Mechs in general, and the rest of the Inner Sphere didn't entirely follow its path. I mean, the MechWarrior:Dark Ages sets "Fire for Effect" and "Age of Destruction" both featured mercenary units, while mercs were prominent in some of the novels' story lines. The entire storyline of the Dark Ages hinged around BattleMechs. Check any of the novels, sourcebooks, or Clickytech publication about the Dark Age.
2) Republic of the Sphere is an extension of centuries of canon about its member worlds. RotS is made of worlds that used to be part of the most powerful nation in the Inner Sphere, the Terran Hegemony. They were shat upon by the Houses for three centuries. Much of the Blake Protectorate was formed from these worlds not because they liked Blake, but because they liked Terra, its businesses, and its promises. Just as they were getting on their feet from being ground zero in the First, Second, Third, and Fourth Succession Wars, the Houses tore up the Star League and wrecked them again. Few of them wanted to rejoin the Houses - the Republic of the Sphere was much more interesting to them. Meanwhile, the Jihad had focused on the future RotS worlds, which means they were among the worst-damaged worlds and the bankrupt Houses were talked into shedding those costly reconstruction projects.
Given the errors I've seen stated about the Jihad and Republic of the Sphere here, I'd recommend reading "How it Began" in the publication, "Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents." Pages 11-14 were meant to be the definitive explanation of the Jihad and birth of RotS. JHS:Terra's "Touring Terra" (p. 170-173) also looks at the roots of RoTS. The sections, "No Love for Blake" and "No Love for the Coalition" expand on what I said above.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (07/07/18 10:52 AM)
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ghostrider
07/07/18 11:56 AM
66.74.61.223
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Dragoon techs should be trained in clan tech to begin with.
The mechs may not be, but the parts for say the ERPPC may well be fragile enough, that if not opened properly, destroys connections or where they even go. Then the issue of materials. But that is something still not addressed for launchers.
The thought of some companies using epoxy to conceal circuit boards comes to mind. So the only way to see what is there, is to destroy the board. Also, some items are set for a specific thickness of things like gaskets. You pull the head off an engine, and you lose what the CC of the cylinders are. Nascar had that issue for a while. One of the teams started winning by doing so.
And how long does it take to reengineer things? Tolerances in resistors, even materials used in wiring can make a difference. Getting the proper specs and putting them together right takes time. And even then, trial and error. Years may well pass and still not figure it out. But eventually they would.
As for WOB, I didn't say it was a good idea. The clans. Well it is possible, though somewhat weak. But the developers needed to make money, and move the game along, so superior tech, inferior numbers.
And they had to do something about the warships. It seems the screwed up with having them. So Turtle Bay, and the Wolves bidding them out, removed them from anything but defense of their fleets in the IS.
Presenting an alternative is fine, but constantly saying this is the only way to fix it isn't. The defense of the 'perfect' way to fix it, says there is no thoughts of any way besides that. In the alt where you can change the facts may work fine. Suggesting the writers are wrong because they didn't go along with them shows a lack of knowledge of their resources.
Doubt they actually had to figure out how many dropships were produced to keep the game going, but then, I don't know. They could just spew out numbers to make it sound good.
And saying they were wrong now, when you know the history of what happens, instead of doing this years ago when the books first came out is off. History is 20/20 in vision. Try doing it from the time frame that it is happening.
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Requiem
07/07/18 08:35 PM
58.175.193.140
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QUOTE: The Jihad wasn't as deadly as the First or Second Succession Wars.
Question how would you rate the Jihad to some of the most recent wars – Fourth Succession War, War of 3039, and even the Clan Wars as these are the games you played in before the Jihad and not the fist / Second Succession Wars?
No Nukes, a small chemical warfare attack within the Capellan Confederation … thankyou Kali, and as for death camps I didn’t know they had any .... maybe in the Clans but I don't know for sure ...
As for nukes et al being scarce – does anyone really want to play in a game where even one can be used upon your forces at any time by your opposition – in one strike everything you have worked for in creating your unit since 3000 onwards is gone – that is such a wonderful feeling, has it ever happened to you when you were playing in a club match? Then being told you have to start from scratch ….
The Clans may have been foreshadowed … but how many states were ready or even knew of their existence when the invaded?
As for WOB, were they not originally an anti-Clan Strike group that were to be used on behalf of the Star League as part of the SLDF …. That then went rogue …. Due to humanities decision to scrap the star League?
As for my statement re no mers – isn’t this an infringement by the state saying I am not allowed to personally own my own mech? Does this not go against everything the game previously stood for – you own your own mech, you create your own unit and go on your own adventures
By saying the state and some mercenary units only are not the states infringing upon individuals rights and the rights originally established by the game world?
AS for the Republic of the Sphere – I am a Machiavellian / Thatcherite – can you explain why any state would give up vast quantities of worlds that have a close proximity to Terra – without the use of arms – as this makes no sense whatsoever – he is a complete unknown why anyone would reward him with his own empire? You are just creating another enemy you will have to fight in the future – as has the ultimate game yet to settled – who will be the next Fist Lord of a united Star League – a Star League under one master – as this dream has not died (maybe dormant …for now ) so how long until we have a 5th Succession War when the dream resurfaces once again? Being a Machiavellian you know this to be true it is just a question of time …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/08/18 12:30 AM
66.74.61.223
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The clans did not have death camps. Show me where they did. Comstar had them. The IS had them. But no where in any books does it say the clans had death camps. Insertion of what is wanted, not what is there is big issue with this whole argument.
The nuke statement runs counter to the forced use of nukes against the clans. Loop hole in plot?
How many states were ready for the succession wars? The FC was ready for the 4th one. And that was about it. Hell how about the Amaris Civil war? Even if they knew, they would not stop their own fights to defend against them. Being first lord overrides all considerations, or so another thread suggests.
Read the invasion of Terra during the clans wars. WOB took it from comstar as comstar was busy fighting the clans. How this point was missed, I don't know. They took all of comstars factories, tech, research and what was stored on Terra.
So the IS turned into the government to disallow personal property of mechs? What is so hard or big about that? You should not own an abrahms tank now, why should people own something that can level city blocks quickly? I am not anti gun owner. I think all except criminals should own one. Gun laws need to be enforced, not a whole set of new ones made, then ignored. But then let's take this to the next step. Why can't I own a nuke? I need to defend myself from invaders.
FRR should be a good example of giving up territory to stop attacks on your borders. I think it stupid, but it is what prevents more wars.
The Star League only exists when someone has the power to hold it together, or all involved actually follow the laws and orders. None of the states had the power, and eventually, all find it to restrictive to allow them to do as they want.
Asking about another war, yet suggesting nothing but wars in other threads sounds backwards.
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Requiem
07/08/18 02:34 AM
58.175.193.140
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Comprehension skills again?
Quote: The clans did not have death camps. Show me where they did.
My previous quote: as for death camps I didn’t know they had any .... maybe in the Clans BUT I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE ...
Though what about the 1st Somerset Strikers Episode 12 and 13 when they are within the Jade Falcon ‘Re-education’ Camp? and what about by any means necessary when the Clans were first established ... how far did they go then?
Again …. Going from draft to complete work … get a grip ….
Until when your personal liberties are infringed you never understand the importance of them
Have a read about how some people became part of the Civil Rights movement …. “It wasn’t until the police arrested me (just for the colour of his skin) and gave me a good kicking in the cells did I start my political education ….”
As for the Abrams … have a look into all the people who do own their own private tanks …. In game term though when you bought your first box you created your own mercenary unit and started working throughout the IS – most did – now they say only if you work for the state or certain approved mercenary units can you pilot a ‘Mech …. Thus an indictment upon our civil rights within the Battletech universe … a founding principle … al because someone wants to PC …. In the words / quote of Mr. C Heston, “I’ll give you my ‘Mech when you pry (or take) it from my cold, dead hands”.
You must remember most great houses military is almost, 25% plus, mercenary units – so getting rid of them would be counter-productive – especially if one realm said they were not going to abide the rule of doing away with Mercenaries (privately owned mechs).
So how would you feel if you were forced by the state to become one of the dispossessed?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/08/18 03:16 AM
66.74.61.223
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The subject of death camps in the clans was touched in previous posts. Maybe not the thread. If you did not look it up, that explains why the statement of them possibly having them was commented to.
What right do you have to own a mech?
And the way to do this is never sell to mercs. Hurts business. Even giving no salvage rights would help remove those units from mercs.
And the houses were reducing their forces at that time. With the RofS in place, the tensions lessened where the others could reduce the numbers of combat units. So why do you need mercs if there is no real fights?
Pirate hunting is about all. Well all that is legal.
Sending them in for raids would happen, but getting caught means more troubles.
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Requiem
07/08/18 04:12 AM
58.175.193.140
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QUOTE: What right do you have to own a mech?
How many of the early books cited the ‘Mech belonged to your grandfather when he was in this or that unit and then it as passed down to your father and now you have it …. This is all the right I need.
Salvage Rights:-
This is given in lieu of hard cash (your employer may not have much) and an inducement to fight hard and win – so it is very necessary, especially when you are trying to build up your unit and you don’t have the creds to purchase one off the lot.
QUOTE: So why do you need mercs if there is no real fights?
Just because the House units want to reduce theirs does not mean everyone will – secret rearmament could be occurring – remember Germany pre WWII – their air-force (due to legal restrictions) was established in Russia.
Also time for a little Classical latin - Si vis pacem, para bellum – an adage once translated is “If you want peace, prepare for war".
As how long did it take before the FS and the DC were back to fighting?
And how long do you think it will take before one of the new rulers wants to be First Lord over everything – thus a 5th Succession War Starts.
Trouble, if it is state sanctioned who is going to quibble about it?
Also if I remember correctly did not the warriors of the Draconis Combine be allowed to put their ‘Mechs into Dojo type buildings where their twin swords are also kept? …. Thus at any time they can be brought back into a war at a moment’s notice? … all because of their ancestral heritage re these weapons
Or do you want me to bring in football quotes next? Re how to achieve victory via offensive and defensive teams.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Cray
07/08/18 10:00 AM
67.8.230.40
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Quote:
So why do you need mercs if there is no real fights?
Someone needed mercs in the Dark Age. They were a healthy industry by the 3130s.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Requiem
07/08/18 10:15 AM
58.175.193.140
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And by 3134 we have (as per the Sarna Wiki Year in review page)
• Anastasia Kerensky leads the Steel Wolves assault on Terra. They are repulsed by the the Republic of the Sphere and the Northwind Highlanders.
• Clan Jade Falcon attacks the Lyran Commonwealth on their way to The Republic of the Sphere.
• The Capellan Confederation invades the Republic of the Sphere.
• Confederation forces, combined with the local resistance, fight the Republic for control of Liao.
• The planetary Governor of Liao orders the Republic of the Sphere to leave the planet and announces Liao's return to the Capellan Confederation.
• The Marik-Stewart Commonwealth fails to capture Stewart.
• Clan Jade Falcon conquers Skye.
• The Dragon's Fury launches a campaign against the planetary government on New Rhodes III.
Perhaps this is why you need mercenaries to be there when the regular military can’t .
In my opinion ...
Only a fool would reduce their military to such a state they then become an easy target – there are too many enemies out there and if you believe in a piece of paper to keep you safe (Chaberlin – piece in our time) you are not a true House Leader – protecting your realm can only be achieved with more and bigger guns held in the hands of good people who will protect the realm – anything else is fantasy. (PC gone mad)
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
09/11/18 09:15 PM
58.175.193.140
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With the effectiveness of the Second Generation Omni-Mechs designed by the Word Of Blake, together with their ‘underling’ technology for improving the pilot’s lethality I am at a complete loss as to why each of the Great Houses would not gather as much technological knowledge as possible regarding these new weapon systems and begin a reverse engineering process in secret.
Thus in the future when third generation Inner Sphere Omnis are being produced their lethality in comparison to single weapon systems ‘Mechs would be quite evident.
Establishing hidden research and development makes sense – together with establishing hidden military units that you can unleash upon an unsuspecting enemy
Can anyone say that the Draconis March would give up any advantage they could manufacture so that they could then (in the future) attack the Draconis Combine?
The games development has lost the plot when it comes to understanding the development of future advanced weapon systems. No Law would stop the state military industrial complex from developing new more lethal weapon systems (not hat the state would stop them) as who knows what the future would be.
Thus new Third Gen Omnis and new units would be established in secret by ALL combatant groups to think otherwise is quite laughable.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
11/24/18 04:53 PM
58.175.193.140
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In addition ….
Duration of time in placing third / Fourth Generation Weapon Systems into mechs when they come in pod form in comparison to having an entirely new mech made to house any new weapons system.
New weapons within pods could be easily manufactured and distributed to front line omni units and be considered a new optional weapons package for a pre-existing mech.
Thus your front line units have a greater tactical and strategic advantage when they are omni in comparison to single weapons packaged mechs.
So why keep producing front line single weapons mechs as it makes no sense?
And what about the size of the Inner Sphere lance when fighting Clans ….. increase the lance size to 6 company to 18 etc. to offset their increase in range.
So where are the new Drop-ships to accommodate this policy shift?
You can always leave those units second tier units Lances at 4 etc.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
11/24/18 09:42 PM
66.74.61.223
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Expense would be one reason to continue with hard mounted weapons on mechs.
Is it the smartest thing to do? Probably not.
New weapons in pods isn't really a big thing. The pods are made so they can fit any weapons into them, and be used on mechs. It was the issue of weapons of the same type, but made by different manufacturers that allowed pods to be the best thing to come out.
Such as the ppc that fits on a warhammer, is not the same mounting as one on a marauder or even the battlemaster one. So they were not really compatible with other units unless you modified them. The pods allowed you to use their multi brackets and hook ups to get around that. Even the medium lasers in the marauder would not work well on a shadow hawks wrist.
And to be honest, when the weapon first comes out, hard mounting would be best. It removes any issues the pods might have with the weapon.
Another issue is how many mechs were still in existence and not omnis? I have not seen anywhere, that you can retrofit pods into the units that didn't originally have them. So throwing out thousands of mechs because they couldn't be done isn't smart.
And I do know new units should all have it. Costs and training the techs to be able to deal with them come to mind. Is it enough to stop the wide spread use of them? Probably not. But it does add to cargo holds, having to have the pods on hand, and they take up more room then a nicely stacked pile of say medium lasers. So moving them could be considered.
And for another idea. Why are pods not used on dropships? Quick change of damaged bays to get them up and running would be a smart idea.
I could accept them not being air tight, but there are ways around that. Remote control use of the bays..
The size of the units would be the inability of dropships to move them without very costly upgrades or changes to them. Granted, no one says they have to move in the same dropship. Might require 2 or more.
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Requiem
11/24/18 11:55 PM
58.175.193.140
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Interesting view of basic engineering … however standardisation of all pods must be considered …
For example Pods are designed in such a way so that any pod from any mech can be placed into any other mech irrespective of its differences in model / tonnage – thus allowing for easy salvage and repair.
Ammunition bays can also designed so that they too are standardised to allow for any ammunition for any weapons package to be integrated into any mech model.
Thus cutting down upon repair time and survivability ….
Then you can create mutli sized brackets to place smaller pods into a larger access node upon the mechs – in addition with multi adaptors to connect the power.
(thus any pods from any other military unit could be utilized as long as they do not have an encryption access protocol that will be needed to be hacked prior to use)
Next you need a computer that can identify a change in pod / node and work with it for the benefit of the mech
This is not a difficult set up to complete … consider viable.
This system will also allow for new pods to be utilized within a very short period of time – new pod / update the computer – ready to rock-and-roll.
This is the best way forward for any military weapons system for Battemechs, aerospace fighters and armoured infantry.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
11/25/18 01:30 AM
66.74.61.223
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It is a bit interesting that pods cost no weight. For all the extra things they do, such as the mounting points, coolant, power, and such that have to be built into them to run anything connected to them, there is no weight to them.
And does a unit without a pod in it, leave a large hole?
Just a thought that if it isn't being used, then you could put it in storage, alone, or make a weapons package for a quick change with another unit.
And a rule clarification is called for. Does a pod for a mech work in a vehicle, and vis versa? Same with fighters.
I know the need for being simple, but a pod made for an arm, would not fit in a torso location and the reverse is even more unlikely.
But this does fit with the basic mech designs for the original invasion omnis.
As in one of the novels where Phelan gets into a kitfox for a fight, it says the system was confirming weapons package. So it should run a check every time it is started.
I thought, long before the omnis came out, that standardized weapons should have been in the game. The Mongoose was the first mech that seemed to go that route. Which does make you wonder if the League should have had pods in their spec ops teams.
I know the info said the League didn't get a chance to research this route, but with all the other things added in post release of the TRO 2750, as well as all the secret projects we find out about later, I don't see it being a big stretch.
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Requiem
11/26/18 08:02 PM
58.175.193.140
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Alt. History Question: Post operation Serpent – Huntress is captured and rather than taking home nothing of worth Huntress is ransacked for everything of any technological worth including Clan Omni Mech / aerospace fighters / Elemental Production Facilities - Plans for drop-ships etc – Medical Facilities –and all other technical engineering facilities that can be squeezed into the returning drop-ships plus the people to run them are taken as well …
Who gets what? And where are they placed? (for me on their respective Capitol Planets or hidden away upon an undisclosed planet)
These new facilities then produce IS Variants of the Clan Omni Mechs / Aerospace fighters etc and are distributed to their front line units.
Plus retrofit weapons packages from IS to Clan weapons
Would you use this scenario / plot for your game? Say 4-5 years post huntress is when the first new IS Clan Variant Omnis start coming off the line?
Thoughts?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
11/27/18 01:22 AM
66.74.61.223
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Half think Terra with it being a League mission, but WOB owns that at this time period.
I would assume they get as much information about the tech for making the omnis, and they go to all the houses except Liao. Mainly because they were not much help in taking Huntress. But that is for canon thoughts.
The alt?
Since WOB Jihad didn't happen, though forget if Terra was taken by them. If not, then Terra would be the most likely spot, with the house lords making sure Comstar did not try to stop it from getting to the houses. Most, if not all weapon factories should get the updated weapons and manufacturing info, ie the lighter missile launcher, as well.
Unless they are taking back hordes of salvaged mechs, there should be enough room on the returning ships, as a lot of units were destroyed as well as soldiers dying from this. And with the prize at stake, I doubt there would be many that could be salvaged.
But this poses a counter question.
Does the IS forces take the dropships and jumpships the Jaguars had under their control as Isorla? Or do they leave them in clan control, though not the jaguars?
The answer would solve the space issue somewhat, if they take it, but not sure if they have enough people to fly the ships. Full crews is out of the question here.
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