ghostrider
03/01/16 02:02 AM
98.150.102.177
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Would it be against rules or policy to make a spot for such designs?
This would allow people to put up designs in an area that purist would not even have to look in,
Since technically all designs not endorsed by the developers would be considers non canon anyways, it would stop people from saying it doesn't work using game rules, such as alternative universes?
And since the actual name would say as much, there should be no mistaking it for canon rules or work. Maybe even allow further discussion on player made weapons without jacking threads.
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Karagin
03/01/16 06:35 AM
61.40.222.5
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As you said all the designs posted by us are non-canon since they are not in the TROs, so really we don't need a separate board for the designs.
Now if folks are using house rules, or alternate universes in which they allow crazy things, and are clear about from the start then the issues would not be that much.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/01/16 01:51 PM
98.150.102.177
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This is more for experimental ideas such as vehilces using endo steel or double heat sinks. Maybe a quad that puts its criticals in one location such as adding a major turret the diverts the criticals into one location. Or how about spreading a normal fusion engine into the side torsos to open up the center a little more?
The idea that an engine can not be used in a unit because the engine fall under a minimum, makes the unit illegal to the rule set, but that sounds stupid. The lighter fusion engines are supposed to put out the same power as the ICE version or even normal fusion engine and can't be used just doesn't make sense.
This would give people the area to put up mechs that don't fit the standard rules, but may allow some to enjoy a quirk and possibly use it in their campaigns. A new prototype unit that can show people why they can not be done like this or at least give others an area to show off an interesting piece of equipment.
It is a suggestion and opinions is what we need here. It may be something nic doesn't want, so this might be a dead subject.
As it would be labeled not within the rules, people the don't want to even see it, don't have to look into the area at all.
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Cray
03/01/16 06:05 PM
72.189.109.30
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
And since the actual name would say as much, there should be no mistaking it for canon rules or work. Maybe even allow further discussion on player made weapons without jacking threads.
There used to be quite a few player-made designs and alternative universes posted on Sarna without problem. You just made a notation that this was "player made" and spelled out how it was meant to fit in a home game, or the canon game.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Akirapryde2006
03/01/16 07:15 PM
71.100.132.249
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I don't think that it would be a bad idea for people to post designs that deviate from the cannon rules as long as they are viewed with an open mind.
If a person posts a design and is attacked because their design violates a rule here or there, then we are crushing a potential conversation about why the design deviated from the rule.
Take my own Viscount Hall design. I knew that I was treading in to unknown waters with the concept of Warship mounted turrets, instead the topic was railroaded by my choice to deviate from the standard crew quarters rule. A choice I made many times before with hardly a mention. Aside from ghostrider, hardly a mention has been mention about my concept (and for Cray and his friends, the rules) of warship mounted Turrets.
At one point, we all have to understand that this is a game supported by the players who spend their money to support the game and the designers who continue to put new material out. For as wonderful that Cray is as a human being, I am sure he doesn't write things for Mechwarrior simply out of the love for the game. I am sure that he has a family to feed and a household to support.
When we as members of this aging community crush new ideas, new concepts and conversations, then we might as well be telling Cray and his friends to just let the game die. Despite as much as I hate the idea of the Jihad and the Dark Ages, I am not willing to let the game die because of it.
These are just my thoughts,
Akira
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ghostrider
03/02/16 02:40 AM
98.150.102.177
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As I said. It was a thought to get ideas going on things without having people like me attack it because it is not canon, or doesn't fit with what I think is the concept of the game. I was hoping to avoid having people give up showing designs because of this, such as a mech using 2 swords, as you can only use one in an attack.
I know at least one person that I had to step back and try to avoid my dislike for some things. I failed on it for some of it. There are times when I have to rewrite a full comment as it sounds like more of an attack then I want it to be.
The name of the area doesn't have to be non cannon units, but anything. It could be experimental units or weapons. What ever is deemed appropriate. And it would impress the designs don't fit canon rules, so there is no arguing it isn't legal.
The idea of using less rooms for crews came up, and frankly there are rules for having more then needed such as a bonus to morale, but you can not have the crews share bunks as those off shift sleep while other crewmembers are on duty. No penalties for it. You just can't do it. It may open up an argument infested area, or it might get some other ideas flowing.
I will say it, as it does come to mind. I would think it would be an argument area, maybe even to the point of people being banned. I would hope it didn't, but that would be what I would expect from it.
Now before people get in an uproar, I am not saying people will do so. I am saying it is a possibility. I am guilty of it myself.
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ghostrider
03/05/16 04:37 PM
98.150.102.177
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Ok. I have seen 3 people put in something here, with Karagin looking like they don't think it is something to do.
No one else has an idea or opinion, weither the idea blows chunks, is good, or not worth specifying an area for it?
Even suggestions on how to improve the idea if it is not in the blows chunks area would be nice.
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Karagin
03/06/16 05:25 AM
61.40.222.5
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I say if hey it's clearly stated this is not for use in the normal BT universe then there is no issues, but when folks post their designs and it's clear after looking at the load or the fluff (if any is given) that it is not really designed to play nice in the BT universe then things should be cleared up when asked.
98% of the stuff posted here on Sarna are built, even when crazy, to fit in the universe and not wipe out the exist mechs, ships etc...the 2% that is posted that is built so who ever is using it can win every time up sets the game's balance. A good rule of thumb, if you can take down an Atlas with your 20 ton death machine in three turns and the Atlas is a slagged mess, you might want to rethink things.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akirapryde2006
03/06/16 03:55 PM
71.100.132.249
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Quote:
Karagin writes:
A good rule of thumb, if you can take down an Atlas with your 20 ton death machine in three turns and the Atlas is a slagged mess, you might want to rethink things.
That is not very fair. I built a 30 ton LAM for a challenge from my friends. I first used an XL Engine to max out its movement (7 - 14 - 7). I armed it only with a Large Pulse Laser. Gave it enough double heat sinks to deal with any heat issues. I had paper thin armor though (counted on them not scoring a single hit).
I took this LAM up against four of my friends who were all piloting Clan Assault Class Omnimechs. The battlefield was chosen by me. I picked a map with lots of trees, lots of elevation to hide behind. It was perfectly suited for my little LAM
I dropped two, badly damaged two before a lucky hit with an LRM (the only hit that any of them were able to make on my little LAM) shredded my paper thin armor. But it was the last hit that got them out of their chairs. A dang lucky hit that caused a Cockpit Critical. Even though my LAM was crashing and would never survive, they cheered as my pilot was killed by that LRM.
It was still an epic game of Cat & Mouse till I was ready to strike. At times they were so made at my little LAM lol
Akira
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Karagin
03/07/16 08:40 AM
61.40.222.5
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The LAM has far more advantages that power gamers can exploit.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akirapryde2006
03/07/16 02:44 PM
71.100.132.249
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lol Well I wouldn't call it all advantages. Keep in mind, to ensure I don't take hits I played the map, and my mech's maneuverability. I also traded off armor for this. Which ultimately cost me the entire match. twelve LRM missiles crushed my mech. Even without the head shot critical my mech was done. I lost my wing armor and was about to crash to the ground. Even if it survived the crash I couldn't hold my own anymore against the remaining mechs. At that point the advantage went over to the two remaining assaults. Game Over....lol
This is a prefect example of why I love this game. No single mech can claim to be the best in all matches/scenarios. Each mech/LAM has its advantages and weaknesses. The LAM is no different.
Sure I did an amazing job with my little LAM, but the game was over with just one lucky hit.
Which is why we love this game. It can all change just like that. In one action the entire game goes from victory to crushing defeat.  yeap, why I love this game.
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 Drasnighta
03/07/16 07:33 PM
198.53.98.65
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I'd personally just prefer it if people didn't "attack" designs, one way or another...
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
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Karagin
03/09/16 08:10 PM
61.40.222.5
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No one attacks a design, normally what happens is folks post their thoughts one it, listing what they like or don't like and a reason why or some times not, and then we have many who feel their wonder toys are just that wonderful and perfect and get upset and take everything as an attack.
Then again if you feel it's a personal attack then I suggest talking to Nic or the moderators. Best rule is this if you can't take the heat from folks who play differently then don't share your design.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akirapryde2006
03/09/16 09:05 PM
71.100.132.249
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Constructive Criticism and ideas to make a persons wonderful toy better is one thing.
However I have seen some pretty ugly things said about designs.
But at the same time, you have to take all comments in stride. You never know what you will learn from what is said.
But Karagin is right. If you don't have thick skin, than I would suggest holding your designs back.
I know I have personally taken some spirited words about how I handle Crew Quarters and as of lately, Warship Turrets.
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Karagin
03/10/16 05:51 AM
61.40.222.5
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We all think our designs are the best or greatest, which is fine. And defending them is fine, and yes I know I am one to talk about this, but even still nothing said on here should ever be taken personal.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akirapryde2006
03/10/16 10:48 AM
71.100.132.249
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Quote:
Karagin writes:
We all think our designs are the best or greatest, which is fine. And defending them is fine, and yes I know I am one to talk about this, but even still nothing said on here should ever be taken personal.
Karagin, I agree with you. But I think what some people are annoyed with is completely useless posts like this one as seen below.
Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:
When you post one of your illegal ship designs will you please say so in the title so people that don't want to look at an illegal ship designs will know to pass on clicking on it.
This post was made in my Moje Class Troop Transport. Despite a disclaimer asking others not to make posts like this, and even offered a invitation to continue the issue in another thread, Our Royal Donkey here felt so inclined to make his post in the thread I was trying to protect.
This kind of complete disregard for posters is what sets people off and causes them to feel attacked.
I challenge you, to look at the disclaimer that was posted clearly at the top of my post and what Donkey wrote. Please explain how his post shouldn't be taken as a ding against me.
Look I got thick skin and Our Royal Donkey wont get under my skin. But his actions came at prefect timing for this conversation. Here you can see what the complaint from others looks like.
On a side note, I would like to point out that Donkey's name violates the posting rules of this site.
Quote:
10. There is an automatic censor function now activated on the forums. You will find the naughtiest words in your posts ****ed out. Bypassing the Censortron-2000 with misspelling will get you banned, even if you didn't mean to misspell Edited to avoid violating said rule
You can see it in his name. It is a clear violation of this rule.
Will the Mods or Admin enforce the rules of this site or is there a double standard?
Akira
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ghostrider
03/10/16 12:19 PM
98.150.102.177
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I was trying to avoid further degrading this thread from seeing if a rule bending or new ideas would avoid some issues and allow more things to come about without starting a fire storm, but there is a small issue with the definition of the foul language rule.
I personally don't consider the term **** that refers to a persons butt being foul. If you do, that is fine. Each person has their limits set for what is bad and isn't bad. And this does lead to opening a can of worms as people will try to distort the intention.
Trying to avoid politics, but it is like colored people and the n word. They claim they can not stand the use of it, yet a lot of them use it, and frankly, I have not heard any protests of the movie out of compton being critisized for the use of it. You can not sue someone because you can't stand it, but yet use it yourself.
Wording goes a long way between telling someone something is wrong or you don't like it, to sounding like they need to be purged from society. The chat rooms as well as the message board in the game of neveron had some really bad verbal wars going on there. It doesn't look like the person that bought the game will be able to get it back up, but I am sure there are more then a few times when the admins had to shut down, or even ban some of them from making threats.
The idea for a new area was to make sure there was no chance of reading something they disagree with as it does not fit with the agreed to rules. It would be something they would skip entirely.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/19/18 11:45 PM
174.235.17.105
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Looking back on this thread, I agree with both Ghostrider and Akira. On the subject of LAMs being death machines... Bleh.
Ever since Interstellar Operations, LAMs almost aren't worth the trouble of designing them anymore. Can't use XL Engines/Gyros, can't use Torso Cockpits, can't use Ferro Fibrous Armor, can't use any physical enhancements such as TSM or Partial Wings, can't use Improved Jump Jets or Double Heat Sinks, no Quad LAMs, etc.
And though they're not related to LAMs, ProtoMechs also feel increasingly useless the more I look at them...
On the subject of custom parts though, there is actually one I feel would be a complete game changer in the right hands, or perhaps even a gamebreaker in the wrong hands; the Lithium Fusion engine.
First shown in Mecha Press #15, the Lithium Fusion Engine took a standard Fusion Engine, and set aside extra critical space for Lithium Fusion batteries. The reason for this is that mechs are already unable to use 100% of the power produced by the Fusion Engine (the same reason a rule against Oversized Engines exists). As such, the Lithium Fusion Engine functions more like a Hybrid Car. Use a Fusion Engine for the main power, and use the surplus energy to charge up the Lithium Fusion batteries to be used when the mech actually needs it.
In construction, a Lithium Fusion Engine does not weigh any more than a standard engine, but you have 14 Lithium Fusion batteries to find space for (1 slot per battery). Batteries can be mounted inside the engine the same way that Heat Sinks can, dividing the engine's rating by 25 and then rounding down.
In gameplay, as long as at least 9 Lithium Fusion batteries are still functioning, the mech's Walk MP is increased by 1 (this also affects how many Jump Jets it can carry, and Run MP is calculated as normal). However, each time a Lithium Fusion battery is destroyed by a Critical Hit, the engine will produce extra heat, and when 5 or more batteries have been destroyed you will lose all the benefits of using the special engine.
In theory, it would be possible to combine Lithium Fusion Engines with XL Engines, allowing a mech such as the Timber Wolf to have a 6/9 movement profile instead of a 5/8 movement profile (since its Starfire 375 XL would be functioning as a 450). However, when the construction rules for the Lithium Fusion Engine were published, it was explicitly stated that you could not make an XL version of the Lithium Fusion Engine, and that there was also no Clan version. So in actuality, it is really more of a means of increasing speed than a means of saving weight.
If you don't care about XL Engines, however, then this does reveal another useful aspect of Lithium Fusion Engines: They are literally the only way that a 100-ton mech can ever have a walking speed of 54 km/h without using TSMs, since a 500-rated XXL is still nearly 200 tons for just the engine. (Check the Advanced Engine table in Tactical Operations)
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
Karagin
04/20/18 01:19 AM
72.176.187.91
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Home made tech with always be a game changer in one fashion or another. I have seen the silliest things thought up around here and folks are like WOW! My group loved it! Or UGH! It sucks.
We each play the game how we want, some use user made mechs all the time, others won't. Some allow mixing of tech, some won't. Some try to play via the canon timeline, others are line nope. As long as you have fun then it's all good.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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