AmaroqStarwind
04/23/18 12:15 PM
174.235.17.105
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Far too often, my designs had an extra ton of weight that I didn't know how to use, and also far too often, I can't decide between a Nova CEWS (which doesn't require a Master Computer, but is not backwards compatible and limited to 3 nodes), or a Watchdog and a separate C3 Slave (much larger network size and doesn't produce heat, but fails if the Master is not present and is incompatible with Nova/C3i networks).
So I would like to know: Is it even legal to put a C3 Slave and a Nova CEWS on the same mech, provided you only use one such system at a time? For example: Nova functions as Watchdog when the C3 Slave is working, but then the Nova takes over as soon as C3 network goes down and connects with any surviving units also equipped with a Nova?
If such a thing were allowable, then a lot of units equipped with a C3 Slave and a Watchdog CEWS (which admittedly isn't very many) would basically be getting a free upgrade path, and the two systems could also be used for the same weight as an Improved C3 computer (even though the Improved C3 and Nova can't be used on the same networks, and the Nova's network is have the size of the C3i's network).
Thanks in advance, and please don't kill me for violating Zellbrigen!
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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04/23/18 12:25 PM
64.189.130.11
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I highly doubt that it's illegal to be part of 2 different C3-like networks at the same time, if that's what you're asking. There's several battlemech designs that actually use two C3Ms (Battlemaster BLR-CM) and I do believe there's Bolla Stealth Tank variants that mount both a C3 slave and C3 Master for some reason.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/23/18 01:42 PM
174.235.17.105
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I think a C3 Slave and a C3 Master is how you join two C3 networks together.
Two C3 Masters though... That's exactly the kind of thing the Battlemaster's engineers would do. "How can we use up as much tonnage as possible for something pointless?"
That why one of the Battlemaster's variants has an 8-ton Heavy-Duty Gyro even after Armored Gyros became a known-quantity.
- - - - - - -
Still, those are both standard C3. I think I remember something about C3i and normal C3 not being allowed on the same unit (or at least not being able to be used at the same time), but I can't seem to find that particular blurb anywhere. That's why I wanted to ask.
My memory has proven unreliable in the past, like when I thought the Nova CEWS could be carried on non-Heat Tracking units as long as they either carried enough Heat Sinks or became Heat Tracking units, but neither of those turned out to be the case.
If the Nova CEWS and C3 Slave can be used on the same mech, however, then I think I might start doing that more often whenever I want to upgrade from a C3i (provided that there are C3 Masters around). That also means that the Watchdog truly is obsolete.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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Edited by AmaroqStarwind (04/23/18 01:54 PM)
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04/23/18 03:22 PM
64.189.130.11
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Quote:
I think a C3 Slave and a C3 Master is how you join two C3 networks together.
Two C3 Masters though... That's exactly the kind of thing the Battlemaster's engineers would do. "How can we use up as much tonnage as possible for something pointless?"
That why one of the Battlemaster's variants has an 8-ton Heavy-Duty Gyro even after Armored Gyros became a known-quantity.
The Battlemaster is a command 'mech, and the CM is a company command variant. A single C3M is enough to command a company so it's curious why there's two, but it's not exactly pointless. A 2nd C3M is enough to command basically a 2nd company worth of armored units, after all.
It's not the only Mech ever built with a double C3M system. There exists twin C3M variants of the Cyclops Battlemech, Maxim I Heavy Hover Transport, Morningstar City Command Vehicle, Naginata Battlemech, Partisan Air Defense Tank, Sunder, Tai-Sho, Ares Colossal Tripod, and the Tenmaku trailer (dragged around by Teppo tanks).
Quote:
Still, those are both standard C3. I think I remember something about C3i and normal C3 not being allowed on the same unit (or at least not being able to be used at the same time), but I can't seem to find that particular blurb anywhere. That's why I wanted to ask.
You may be confusing a non-existing construction limitation with the very real limitation of C3i not being able to connect to Master/Slave systems. There's no reason you can't stuff a Mech with both C3i and a C3 Master rules-wise, it just wouldn't make much sense to do so.
Quote:
My memory has proven unreliable in the past, like when I thought the Nova CEWS could be carried on non-Heat Tracking units as long as they either carried enough Heat Sinks or became Heat Tracking units, but neither of those turned out to be the case.
...There's no such restriction. From Interstellar Operation pg 66:
Nova Combined Electronic Warfare System (CEWS)
Game Rules
Nova Rules Level: Experimental
Available to: BM, IM, CV, SV, AF, CF, SC
Tech Base (Ratings): Clan (F/XXFX)
Game Rules: The Nova CEWS operates as a combination of ECM,
active probe and C3i equipment, with the following exceptions.
The Nova CEWS can link up to two other units mounting a Nova
CEWS. A unit wishing to link with another unit must declare the
connection in the End Phase. Beginning in the next turn, the two units
are linked and operate per the rules for C3i (see p. 131, TW). Units may
not link to more than two other units at a time. ECM does not affect
the link, unless it originates from another hostile, active Nova CEWS.
The Nova CEWS does not provide the abilities of TAG.
The Nova CEWS may be mounted on units with the Null Signature
System or Chameleon Light Polarization Shield. These systems will
function normally.
Units with multiple Nova CEWS may only use one at a time in
game play. Fighters and small craft may only use Nova CEWS when
interacting with ground units. Nova CEWS can be turned off in any End
Phase. While active, Nova CEWS’ effects are considered active even if
the unit’s pilot or crew is rendered incapable of acting in combat, but
will shut off if the carrying unit is shut down or destroyed.
The Nova CEWS generates +2 heat while active.
Construction Rules: The Nova CEWS can only be mounted on units with
a fusion engine (including standard, compact, light, XL, and XXL engines).
The only construction restriction is that the vehicle must have a fusion engine to mount Nova CEWs. No mention to whether or not the unit is heat tracking or not.
Ex:
I'm a crazy scientist from the Society trying to retrofit Nova CEWS on a bunch of stuff I've found at the junkyard so I can hire the Clan's downtrodden and undesirables to protect my lab long enough for me to do ethically dubious experimentations on live subjects.
I could refit a Badger, Donar, or Bandit to house my Nova CEWS, as they all have fusion engines.
I could not scrounge up an Agromech to house my Nova CEWS, as it has an ICE engine.
Quote:
If the Nova CEWS and C3 Slave can be used on the same mech, however, then I think I might start doing that more often whenever I want to upgrade from a C3i (provided that there are C3 Masters around). That also means that the Watchdog truly is obsolete.
Since the Watchdog is just a combination ECM-Light Active Probe that has no weight saving or crit space savings on a battlemech, is far more expensive than simply mounting the two individually and loses the capability of both on a single critical hit (while an ECM mounted individually will not be affected by the LAP taking a crit and vice versa), the Watchdog CEWS is a completely pointless piece anyways.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/23/18 05:34 PM
174.235.17.140
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Actually, the Watchdog CEWS packs in a full-fat Clan Active Probe into that 1.5 ton package...
And if you check the Sarna page on the Nova, it cannot be mounted on anything that doesn't track heat.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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04/23/18 05:48 PM
64.189.130.11
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Quote:
Actually, the Watchdog CEWS packs in a full-fat Clan Active Probe into that 1.5 ton package...
Also wrong. Tac Ops pg.278
Watchdog Composite Electronics Warfare System (CEWS)
Rules Level: Experimental
Available To: PM, BM, IM, CV, SV, AF, CF, SC, DS, MS
Tech Base (Ratings): Clan (F/X-X-F)
Game Rules: In an effort to streamline their electronic warfare packages, the Clans developed the Watchdog as a one-piece combination of a light active probe and ECM suite. The system works in the same way as the Clans’ standard ECM and Light Active Probes (see pp. 129 and 134, TW), but lacks the range of the Clan-made systems.
Quote:
And if you check the Sarna page on the Nova, it cannot be mounted on anything that doesn't track heat.
The rules in the actual book Interstellar Operations says nothing of the sort. The primary source trumps the wiki.
Additionally, the Wars of Reaving book has more on the Nova, which explicitly states that non-heat trackers need enough HS to account for the Nova (implicitly meaning they can carry it):
PAGE 203
The Nova CEWS generates +2 heat while active. Units with this system that do not track heat must have enough heat sink capacity to deal with this.
Cost: 1,100,000
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ghostrider
04/23/18 07:22 PM
66.74.61.223
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unless they change the c3m, it controls 3 other c3 units (master or slave).
You need 3 or 4 masters to control a company. I think 4 as one master runs one lance, while the 2nd master would tie into the other lances of the company.
They do not have to be on the same unit.
And the network as restricted to 12 units max, including those that use the master.
The c3i changes this some, but only to deal with comstars 6 unit configurations.
The cews is something beyond bmr so don't know.
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