AmaroqStarwind
05/16/18 11:51 PM
99.203.27.133
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The wiki describes the "Fax Machine" as being the size of a suitcase, so would it be possible to cram one onto a mech?
For instance, for the purpose of scouting on a remote planet and reporting back to friendly forces elsewhere in the solar system (or even in an adjacent system), and/or not broadcasting conventional radio signals which can bw intercepted?
If it were possible, what would you use it for?
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Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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csadn
05/17/18 03:27 AM
50.53.22.4
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Nothing in-game. I'd see it more as a "campaign-level" item -- something which allows one's side to send and receive messages without having to worry about the local HPG operator's personal politics. For "official" examples: Think of what the Gray Death Legion could have done with a set on Verthandi, or Helm.
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Cray
05/17/18 10:11 PM
67.8.228.37
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There is a book - covert ops? - with a listing of Faxes by grade and capability. I think they run toward 1 billion CB, though.
[edit] Historical: War of 3039 has some performance details on p. 68-69 sidebar, but not cost. What was that covert ops book?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (05/17/18 10:27 PM)
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Requiem
05/18/18 03:15 AM
58.175.193.140
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Economies of scale refer to reduced costs per unit that arises from increased total output of a product.
Also as time progresses the cost of a single item reduces as efficiency of scale and technological advancements improve will also reduce the cost of a single item – in this case a “Fax Machine” in early 3030 would/could be considered to be very expensive. However, within 50 years and the correct application of technology costs can be reduced “to an almost negligible amount”.
Therefore, if it was decided every unit and planet in the realm FC and DC would have a “Fax Machine” by 3060 what would be the per-unit cost? Could it be economically viable for this to occur due to the reduced costs? (Unknown as to its viability)
Also the effects of the dark times would be severely limited/ minimised within the FC and DC if these machines were also opened for important government traffic (such as those concerning vital economic/social information of importance) for their respective world, until such a time as the HPG transmitters are repaired. This would provide these realms with a competitive advantage not only financially but also militarily.
Requiem
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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AmaroqStarwind
05/18/18 12:38 PM
108.255.82.176
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Naval C3 systems, Autonomous Planetary Defense Systems and Tele-Operated Cruise Missiles would benefit from 'Fax Machine' technology as well.
I do wonder, though; did the FedCom Civil War hurt the distribution of Fax Machines, or if not then did the destruction of NAIS do it?
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Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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ghostrider
05/18/18 01:00 PM
66.74.61.223
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Not sure about after the clan invasion, but I thought the ability to make the tech was the slow down in even 3039. It is highly unlikely they would even allow them to be used by normal agencies in the government. Military, intel, and that would be about it. Using them for something important, like commerce may be out of the question. The idea is keeping this advantage secret, and having the local branch of even Defiance Industry would not allow it to remain unknown.
It would come to comstar/wob attention, and they would try to destroy them all, or atleast cut out their comms for a while, trying to punish the FC for having them. It bypasses their abilities to regulate, and inspect information being sent on the HPG network.
If they were as high price as Cray believe, at 1 billion, you could buy 2 full assault mech battalions are 10 mil each, and have enough left over for the recon battalion. Hell, even several dropships. So the cost would be worth it, but trying to hide it as well as justify it to those that need water purifiers and such would be very difficult.
And with that, in the novels where Luthien is going to be invaded, they said they had upgraded versions of it. The fax to the FC border was relayed with the newer ones.
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AmaroqStarwind
05/18/18 05:15 PM
108.255.82.176
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I actually think I remember something about Hanse Davion. Whenever he received a message from a secret facility via HPG, he would ask his advisors if they had a fax machine at that location, and if not then to get on it ASAP.
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Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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Requiem
05/22/18 07:45 AM
58.175.193.140
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The point I was trying to make when putting these machines out there is 1st the order in which you would distribute them:-
The aim is to keep the military and the Orders flowing in the event the HPG system is shut down post 4SW so:- …
1st – A Grade RCTs (those units within a special combat zone), Regional Command Worlds then other worlds to relay the message from RCTs / Regional Command worlds (due to the range of the Fax Machines) to the Capitol World and then to send orders back;
2nd – All B Grade RCTs and Worlds of Importance based upon their economic / social / political importance;
3rd – All other RCTs and Worlds;
2nd. As for allowing Government Departments / Major corporations access to keep the economy ticking over – The reasoning behind this is simple, all Governments have contingencies just in case of disasters eg. Volcano, earthquake, tsunami, twister etc – this is just one more contingency plan that would be initiated – in the event all the HPGs go down (again) the military, government and the economy needs to keep working to keep the realm safe – thus they are also given limited access to keep the flow of information / realm ticking over / and safe (during this time of uncertainty).
As all the HPG going down at one time, this would be seen as a prelude for a major invasion by one of the major powers.
Thus having all RCTs and All Worlds linked up as a backup HPG Chain is another safety measure in keeping the realm safe.
All the Houses have felt the effects of an interdiction has had on them – only a ______ would not attempt to mitigate one of the biggest vulnerabilities they have (reliance on Comstar to process their messages in a timely manner and with impartiality).
After Hanse Davion initiated Operation Flush against Comstar’s spy network, the question should be asked then, why would he not put in place a contingency as it is quite clear they cannot be trusted?
(As he has the technology and the will to make it FC wide it just takes time to complete).
Requiem
Adelaide Australia
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/22/18 12:52 PM
66.74.61.223
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I will say there is one group that should receive or have access to them before the military and that would be the intel department.
And I am going to assume the FS portion of the FC was able to make them, as the implication was, they found them in a cache. I want to say a novel implied that, but don't remember which.
Now in game terms, to use it, do you need HPG comms skill?
I will say the command overlords would be a good place to have one as well.
One note. Not all regiments in the FS or FC were RCTs. Some were only mechs, while others only armor/infantry.
Which calls into question the Jihad. Why didn't the fax machines warn of worlds being hit in those nations that had this technology?
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AmaroqStarwind
05/22/18 01:27 PM
108.255.82.176
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I suspect the reason they weren't used in the Jihad is as simple as "the writers forgot about them". K-Series transmitters are pretty obscure as far as my knowledge extends, so it is entirely possible that they were forgotten about. Especially as both line writers change and intellectual property holders change.
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Cray
05/22/18 05:29 PM
97.101.136.19
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Quote:
I suspect the reason they weren't used in the Jihad is as simple as "the writers forgot about them".
Faxes were available in the Jihad, they just didn't add much. HPG service was available most of the time to most key planets during the Jihad, and the Houses and Clans were starting to build their own HPGs. Why depend on a slow, primitive fax when you could install a domestically-built HPG in your flag WarShip?
Quote:
K-Series transmitters are pretty obscure as far as my knowledge extends, so it is entirely possible that they were forgotten about.
The line developers and some of the writers involved in the Jihad had roots dating back to FASA days. Faxes weren't forgotten in the Jihad, they just didn't get much press time.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
05/22/18 05:40 PM
66.74.61.223
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How many non key worlds did the HPG service reach? And honestly. Would you trust the information from the HPG knowing the enemy could very well delete, change or even fabricate reports?
Or did that concept get left out of intel gathering.
You are talking about those that ran the HPG services, though the clans had their own HPG anyways. I was unaware the IS had their own large units
Or is that the basis for the jihad? To remove the tech from house hands?
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Cray
05/23/18 07:40 PM
97.101.136.19
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Quote:
Or is that the basis for the jihad? To remove the tech from house hands?
Oh, heck no.
The point of the Jihad was something like:
1) WoB plans to reward Inner Sphere for voting WoB into the new Star League as a full member by destroying the Clans except...
2) ZOMG! The Inner Sphere killed the new League! The Inner Sphere must burn!
3) ...oops, we didn't think this through. Fight for our lives by destroying the Houses and Clans!
4) Well, that didn't work.
There were also about a dozen border wars between the Houses and Clans during the early Jihad. After the Jihad, everyone tried to politely forget all that and blame everything on WoB, even when it wasn't WoB's fault.
Anyway, the shorter version is: no, WoB had no grand plan to nerf the Inner Sphere's technology, or even to fight the Inner Sphere. The Jihad is all one big improvisation based on bad initial decisions, like a lot of wars.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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