Koniving
06/09/18 12:48 PM
65.33.241.46
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There's an error on a page in which the notes specifically state that X source is the first source in which a mech design is given to us, which was produced in 2010. However, I have the same design on Y source produced in 2006, however at no point on the page is the true original source quoted, referenced, etc, not even in the notes. Granted, this source has a very different story, different year, etc., but it is still canonical source which also brings about a retcon that was quite possibly errorneous, completely leaves to question the age of Richard Sitwell (founder of the Sitwell Company, whom started it in 2795, but the first product of its line and the fruit of his labor according to the retcon of X source [see below] came out in 2764.... before he was born .)
How would I go about correcting this error in the notes without completely removing the actual error? Would I do it as a new note, or can it be struck through, or is it better to remove the error entirely? Also is there a way to contact Catalyst somewhat directly to inquire about it to get an official ruling as to which is canon? Considering the contents of Operation Klondike.. I'm certain they never even read the original entry, they probably just saw a mech design with a few notes and literally the only entries here are some variants (all made "XI") and... no story. In fact there's actually no year given for the Powerman models mentioned here. Given that all the numbers are reduced to make them seem like older designs for the sake of being a "Historical" operation, I think no actual research went into it.
Operation Klondike's introduction states "Operation Klondike took place more than 250 years ago," and the statement is made by "Dr. Andrea Paliwoda" with the date of "3074." Meaning Operation Klondike which created Clan society started in 2824 (or earlier as it says more than 250 years ago). While the Powerman does exist in the year, the first exodus was in 2781, 14 years before Sitwell Corporation was founded and the production of the first prototype Powerman ever created had happened. It shouldn't even be there.
I sadly cannot access the Vehicle Annex Revised to know how different the story is, but as far as I can tell the year changed... Considering that Richard Sitwell was a middle aged employee in 2795... there's no way in hell he could have made the powerman in 2764.
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The full details.
On the Powerman page (it says I can't post links), there's a thing under Notes stating that the first entry for the Powerman is in Operation Klondike (2010) and that it was later added to Vehicle Annex (doesn't specify but they mean the Vehicle Annex of 2013).
However, I found it in the original Vehicle Annex (2006) and soon began digging a lot considering that the stories don't match up. Indeed the earliest reference is in the Vehicle Annex of 2006. Inside of which it is specifically stated to be the Loadermech (most of the page goes by before the XV is added to the chassis, however the XV is listed next to Bluth Corporation's Buster Class XXI Haulermech which has Triple Strength Myomer; so I highly doubt the XV or the XXI existed in 2795 but is more of a mention of a more modern loader and hauler mech as up until that point the Powerman doesn't have any roman numerals, although the chassis is "PowerLift CXV"),
It very specifically states that the basic plans for the Buster was stolen, redesigned and improved upon all after the Sitwell corporation was founded in 2795. The prototype appears to have been made within the same year although this is implied not specifically stated. The term "Loadermech" is also indirectly explained in this 2006 Vehicle Annex as the distinction that the Powerman was strictly the preference for use significantly more efficient "loading" and unloading of cargo into various cargocraft (air, space, sea) than the Buster ever could. The Buster was still the preference for long distance hauling.
Now, Operation Klondike for no apparent reason and made 4 real years later, has them as something that can be rolled and used for operation Klondikewere around and went off to the Clans despite Operation Exodus occurring 14 years before the Powerman was ever created in the IS.
I'm certain that anyone actually reading this can see a problem, when the Powerman's sarna.net page notes state that Operation Klondike is the first mention and its inherent confusion about XI and XV.. However, it is understandable that there was confusion at Catalyst, considering that prior to them, WizKidz owned and produced that document prior to Catalyst producing the Op Klon.
Source: Technical Readout Vehicle Annex (2006) by WK Games. Page 206. "SC Powerman Loadermech / BC Buster Haulermech."
SC stands for Sitwell Corporation. BC stands for Bluth Corporation.
Can someone check vehicle annex revised for the production year? Its possible that only the year introduced is erroneous (as well as the "first mention" being operation klondike.)
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Another funny note of much less importance, is that the Powerman on this 2006 entry is stated to have a wider stance than the Buster, but the artwork of the Buster has a wider stance than the Powerman. But as I said that's not important.
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AmaroqStarwind
06/09/18 07:39 PM
108.255.82.176
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Correct it as if it is an in-universe source clearing up an in-universe misconception. For example, when errata removed the Beagle Active Probe from the Raven (a move which I absolutely despise because it was done for literally no reason, and destroy's the mech's identity), I played it off as "earlier reports indicated that the Raven may have carried a Beagle system, but more recent sources of information by military historians have found no evidence to back up these claims."
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
Koniving
06/11/18 10:42 AM
65.33.241.46
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Another issue is making a correction on the MUL.
After all, the fluff available to me all state its introduced in 2795. Yet the MUL says 2764.` So even if I correct the first introduced to us in Vehicle Annex (2006), (which even if you ignore the real life introduction, the times these publications are written in character still put vehicle annex first), I still have the original problem that Catalyst made a mistake.
So I would still need to get word from them as to which version they will keep as canon.
How might I do that? I'm sure Beas is no longer the man for this if I remember correctly.
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Frabby
06/12/18 02:37 PM
79.224.69.23
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There's a dedicated forum thread for reporting (possible) errors in the MUL:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47774.0
As for the TRO:Vehicle Annex Revised, it doesn't explicitly state intro dates. But the combined text for the Buster/Powerman LoaderMechs states that Richard Sitwell was released from Bluth Corporation in 2760, then formed Sitwell Corporation with disgruntled former Bluth employees.
This and the fact that the subsequent litigation took place throughout the First Succession War establishes that the Powerman design predates Kerensky's Exodus.
I imagine the error is the supposed creation of Sitwell Corporation, which must have been in 2760 (or perhaps 2765), but certainly not in 2795.
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AmaroqStarwind
06/12/18 04:06 PM
13.84.155.127
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To be fair, real-life founding dates for big companies tend to get lost over the years as well, and there are still people arguing whether BattleTech came out in 1983 or 1985.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
Frabby
06/14/18 05:38 AM
79.224.82.160
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Someone has been jumping to conclusions - even the original TRO:VA entry didn't say Sitwell Corporation was established in 2795, only that this was the year Richard Sitwell was laid off. That one date has been corrected to 2760 in TRO:VA Revised. I've changed the articles and put a note into the Sitwell Corporation article. (It must have been founded between 2760 and 2764.)
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Sabrina
12/19/19 10:39 AM
165.225.72.121
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Hi guys,
Since I've joined only now and don't want to risk stepping on anyone's toes or breaking anything on the site, I'd like to ask somebody to update an entry on my behalf.
"- Clan Snow Raven
saKhans
Thorsten Magnus, 308? - ???? (or Thorston Magnus, the spelling seems to vary.)[42][43]"
The spelling "Thorsten" should be correct, it is the name of an old friend of mine, Thorsten Lankenau (yes, that's a real person and yes, that is the bloodname source), so Thorston is most likely an error of the author.
Thank you for helping out 
~~~
Sabrina
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Frabby
12/19/19 12:13 PM
91.39.164.192
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Thank you Sabrina for asking first.
Technically, anyone can simply edit a page - you don't even have to have a registered user account.
However, your proposed change would indeed likely be reverted or otherwise challenged by the community, as there is no source beyond "most likely an error" to overrule a canonical entry in a sourcebook. (Though I haven't actually checked the two references given.)
I grant you that it is most likely an error on behalf of the author - but "most likely" boils down to opinion, not fact.
May I suggest that you raise the issue of the correct spelling on the Ask the Writers section of the official BattleTech forum to obtain an official ruling. If any when that official ruling is issued, the Sarna page can be updated accordingly. The ruling can be cited as a reference.
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Sabrina
12/20/19 06:49 AM
165.225.72.121
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Thanks for the clarification, that aspect was included in 'not stepping on anyone's toes.'
I can see your point and will debate if this typo is important enough for the effort involved. It's been 20 years and my interest has been rekindled only recently.
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