Alternate Clan Invasion timeline

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Requiem
07/17/18 04:45 PM
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In my Opinion ….. ie. alternate universe view ….

In the Cannon era 7 March 3050 the first assaults by Clan forces included in Operation Revival broke over the core-ward edge of the Inner Sphere, thus beginning the Clan Invasion ….

Or perhaps not ….

What if we say then that the last great military campaign by the House Forces of the Inner Sphere was the war of 3039.

(choose your war at this stage – against Capellans – against the Combine – or an earlier Combine war during the Ronin War)

(plus you could also put in the Free Worlds League Civil War due to Thomas’ death within the explosion that killed the rest of his family – thus a war between Parliament Vs The Military as t whom the Captain General should be)

Thus we have an age of peace from this time (approx. 3039-3040) to that of (approx.. ?)

In this age of peace technology increased ….

So at this stage when the Clans did enter into the Inner Sphere we could then have a more “equitable” invasion and hopefully remove some of the issues and complaints regarding the 3050 invasion …

Thus Technical Readout 3055 or even 3058 are allowable for the initial Clan Invasion ….

I know “Cannonists” would be having a melt down at the suggestion of a delayed invasion and the idea that it was the Clan invasion that prompted technology within the Inner Sphere ….

However, suspend your belief for just one second, and what if …… for some “reason” during this age of peace we have a technological resurgence ….

And then the Clan Invasion begins …… in either 3056 or 3059 …..

Would, in your opinion, this Invasion have been more “fun and enjoyable” to run than that of just using the 3050 Technical Readout? ie. including the 3055 or 3058 Technical Readout?

Plus wouldn’t this explain number of new integrated weapons mechs versus the number of omni-mechs created for the Inner Sphere? Onmis can be seen as just a new R&D side project by the Great Houses and have yet to catch on …..

Your thoughts regarding this?
Change the Invasion Date?
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Votes accepted from (07/17/18 03:45 PM) to (No end specified)
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Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
07/17/18 09:18 PM
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I've said it before. Remove the clans from even invading.
Also said the IS should have been higher in tech as they had working models of the Star League long before the helm core. Every secret depot left would have had examples of it. The issue was not thinking about it at the time of the game being done.
There should even be tech examples of the naval weapons floating around worlds, as their power cores shut down and were not destroyed. Even some left on stations still functioning.

The new ideas being made are automatically lighter and less crits used when the clans get ahold of them.
How and why is the question here. Different materials? It takes more then a year or two to work on things. Or the clans would possess a much higher tech level then they do, because the scientists would be gods of coming up with new things.

Even then, why not just have the 4th war be the last one before the clans come in?
I know the writers needed conflicts to sell product and justify coming out with new tros. That doesn't happen if their isn't a war.

With being an alt time line, why isn't the IS in a better tech stage? The double sinks that are brittle. Why are they brittle?
To make sure they are useless in the future. Nothing was said they didn't hold up in the Wolf adventure pack. They suggested they would not faulter at all.
Better targeting systems is another that should have advanced.
The streaks lock on and all hit. So why are they still so short ranged?
Why don't they have a bonus to lock?
The extra weight is supposed to deal with the extra targeting/tracking/coms system to guide them in. Much steeper cost then a TC, yet nothing. ECM stops coms in their area, but not the streak locks.
There is a whole slew of other things that should be, but aren't.
ER fittings for lasers. No extra weight, longer range, but same damage. Not a single example survived in all the caches found in the IS, that they could not figure it out and start using it before the helm core?
There is some of the holes in the logic of the game.
As said. Start the rewrite much earlier then 3025. The League as more holes in it, that lead to bs in the succession wars. It would be more fun to play the wars if that was done.
Requiem
07/18/18 01:34 AM
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So in your opinion it would be more fun and enjoyable if the Inner Sphere has more technology?, so therefore allowing the 3055 and 3058 Technical Readout into the Invasion would be a good thing?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
07/18/18 02:29 AM
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Using logic, they should have far better tech then they did.
The Galtar campaign had the FS find a League storage base. I find it impossible for the rich find, as the book says, didn't have anything advanced in it. Not even ammo.
Which brings me to the League bs.
They were supposed to be more advanced then the other houses, yet ever unit you get from a warehouse is the same down graded ones built 300 years into the future?
I agree they would be expensive to make and keep, but the game itself says the Leagues units would put the ones in 3025 to shame with their performance.
I really don't see to much of that in the tech they had.

As for all the tech in being there during the invasion. Most of it. There are some things that I don't think the play testers did a good job on, as things can and did get abused. The TC/Pulse lasers is the prime example here.
The upgraded IS mechs were not all that great. But then the League tech wasn't as good as I think it should be. But I didn't make the game so played it with what was there.
The more advanced tech would give the IS a better chance to compete.
I do agree the IS should have been in better shape when they invaded as well.
But I do understand the writers not allowing either as it removes the urgency as well as makes it more likely they could not get out of the corner of the FC union.

As all stories go, a built in weakness is needed to make the story sound more urgent.

I thought the vengeance with full fighter compliments should have been common in the 3025 era. But that fell to the wayside when they nerfed the fighters ground attacks. Still. The idea is to prevent the enemy from getting to the planet, or get your units to their worlds. Fighters and assault dropships are key here. Not capital weapons carrying dropships. That would come later. But this is a mech combat game, so having the enemy not reach the battle field removes that.
This is part of why logic doesn't work right in the game. To have battles, you have to have the enemy on the ground with you. Otherwise, you play nothing but aerotech/battlespace.
Requiem
07/18/18 08:30 PM
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QUOTE: As all stories go, a built in weakness is needed to make the story sound more urgent.

However, considering the 3050 Technical Manual – wasn’t this “built in weakness” taking it a bit too far?

As for aerospace ….. Renegade Legion anyone?

I believe there should have been more balance in the use fighters / Dropships / Mechs etc so that you could start form Jumping in – cover fighters (aerospace battle) as you descend – Mechs out – continual strafing / bomb / missile attacks etc (i.e. a more inclusive systems for all areas of battle to participate)
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Requiem
07/23/18 07:09 PM
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The No-Go Vote ……. Alt. History

Variant history based upon Pg. 17-18 The Clans Warriors of Kerensky

The capture of the ComStar crew gave the ambitious Jaguar Khan the first solid information on the Inner Sphere in decades (Little to nil information from Wolfs Dragoons?). Armed with it, he forced the Grand Council to vote on the long postponed invasion.

On 21 November 3048, they voted to invade the Inner Sphere.

Clan Wolf opposed the move. As was their right, Khan Ulric Kerensky demanded a Trial of Refusal.

Despite being outmatched four to one the Wolf Third Battle Cluster fought valiantly, as the decision came down to the remaining two Battle-mechs one Jaguar and one Wolf, as the two fought a vicious duel, it was the wolf who prevailed.

As the Wolves narrowly prevailed the Council decision was quashed.

It would take a further ten years before a Council vote as to the Invasion of the Inner Sphere would be called for again.

Aided by their fellow Crusader Khans the Wolves were unable to oppose the invasion, thus the Crusaders set about planning the massive military assault code-named Operation Revival.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Requiem
07/24/18 06:56 AM
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In the event that your alternate universe decides to “push back” the Clan’s Invasion to 3060 the question needs asked … what do you put in my alternate timeline then?

A renaissance of technology as the Helm Memory core is broken shortly after the Last Great War – an era of peace and an unprecedented level of technology is distributed throughout the Inner Sphere returning the full extent of Star League Technology.

So what does this mean for each great House?

A rush to ensure all technology is distributed as quickly and as efficiently as possible, a bull market in which the standard of living upon all (‘the majority of’) worlds is increased as consumer goods are being produced for an unheard of number of consumers. And with the establishment of new markets comes new factory complexes are established on new worlds to reach these new markets and in doing so unemployment decreases wages increase. Thus requiring a workforce that is far more educated than was previously required – necessitating new schools, technical collages, and universities ….. people are beginning to see a bright future ….

For my universe ….the possibility of a union between the Federated Commonwealth and Free Worlds League, therefore a step closer to the dream of a Star League.

For the Draconis Combine, however, the treat of invasion has never been so real.

So how do we transcribe this to the Military of each Great House? The introduction of Technical readouts ….

For the Draconis Combine and its client state the new Capellan Confederation … advanced new battlements transferred to their elite units – such as the Sword of Light and Genyosha – new Battlemech regiments from the Battlemechs that were assigned to these units – new refit packages to upgrade the weapon systems of all other units.

(assume ten to twelve new regiments for the Draconis Combine and two to three for the Capellan Confederation by 3060)

The same cold also be said to be happening, but in my opinion not as quick as the DCMS for the Federated Commonwealth and the Free Worlds League .

(assume eight to nine new RCTs for both the Federated Commonwealth and the Free Wolds League by 3060)

For other smaller states and mercenaries unaligned to a great house they would be attempting to acquire refit packages as quickly as possible and the odd Battlemech that has not been pre-purchased.

Though for those Gladiators on Solaris – this would be a unique time to show off their new weapons packages and new ‘Mechs supplied by their sponsors - military industrial complexes that wish to use Solaris as a testing bed for new research and development weapon systems.

As for Navies for each Great House – let us assume that they have produced the same amount and types as that of the Canon version of BattleTech in addition to large number of combat dropships and aerospace fighter units (together with the introduction of an anti-ship missile)

Let us also consider that Hanse Davion’s “Black Boxes” have been proliferated throughout the Federated Commonwealth and the Draconis Combine – the only other state that may have access to them is that of the Free Worlds League – and they have only just started establishing a base model)

And thus the Clans arrive and the Invasion begins …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Requiem
07/24/18 07:28 AM
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Now consider the benefits this shift in the time line brings to the Inner Sphere Party …

• More advanced weaponry;
• More Units;
• Changes in fighting styles to reflect the change in technology;
• The addition of support weapons – engineered quicker and produced quicker – eg. anti-elemental rifle – Arrow IV Smoke / Chaff Rounds
• And as for the Clans piloting / gunnery proficiency – lets us say only gunnery gets the plus one – eugenics are not the be all and end all as they suppose.
• And the Inner Sphere’s Piloting also gets a boost from five to four as the base figure
• Ie. IS – 4/4 Vs. Clan 4/3 – as piloting training could be considered the same, whereas gunnery for clans is improved by their technology.
• Warship battles with large number of aerospace fighter support; etc
• The main characters from Canon – all ten years older – a little wiser (we can only hope)
• The Introduction of new Characters;
• Also a massive change in history – say goodbye to Tukayyrid – let us base this invasion upon WWII and Let us keep Camelot Command.
• Then consider running with Commandoes – Fenrir etc
• And let us see where the war goes from there shall we …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
07/24/18 11:33 AM
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In canon, all the houses tried to prevent the CC from getting any. Granted, they cease to exist in your alt shortly afterwards.
Part of why the MAC rebuilding was needed. Using dummy and real companies they owned, they bought tech from across the IS. This was the main way the CC got the tech.
Also, I think pointing out that all the houses didn't want any other houses gaining the tech at this time. They superior tech concept here.
Wanting nice slow fat mechs that can't fire back, or die quicker is always nice. Vehicles even more so.

Some extra points you may want to consider.
With the RCT's the FC would more likely want to build Vengeances, as carrying a full regimental compliment of fighters would be advisable, but very difficult using Leopard CVs.
The Achilles seems to be a nice assault combat ship, though the lack of landing makes the avenger better suited for invasions.
Adding more or increasing the size of training facilities would be a good idea as well. Only so many trained in the current ones, and the canon implies they are always full, ie NAIS having a huge waiting list to get in.

Another note on canon. The helm core seems to have been put out to try and get the IS close to the clans tech when they invaded. Basically knowing what they planned for the future, had to do something. Normal IS mechs die very quickly.

The subject of tech is full of holes. More then a few times someone in the IS had units that didn't exist before they found them. The devastator being one of them. No secret factories were found that built any of the upgraded tech was found? Even ones thought destroyed but weren't should have been found as well.

With the 3050 canon books, those mech were horrible for the most part. The implication that the 'lostech' was still rare bites. And I still want to see the real Star League mechs. The ones in 3025 were supposed to be cobbled together with tech they had a the time. Even the Lyran Commando would be much better in League times.
The argument of not being able to afford it in the Terran Hemogany goes back to real world spending for military. There would be alot more high tech units at the time. The Highlander and Thorn show part of it, but they should have more, as well as others. The streak packs other then the 2 should have been out at that time.
And that is not touching larger packs as the Leagues computers should have been much better. Same as the clans.
Requiem
07/24/18 06:36 PM
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QUOTE: With the RCT's the FC would more likely want to build Vengeances

Please read – Att. History Operation Rat Revival Page 4 RE: Press Release: November 13, 3042 – Extract as this addresses the issue of a Vengeance dropship for the FC.

I also agree that developing states new weapon technology are still to be considered state secrets – however as secretes become common knowledge they will somehow end up on Solaris for your Great Houses Stable’s Mechs …. One way or another …..

Yes I agree there would be more newly established military training facilities – this is just an extension upon Hanse Davion’s training program. In my opinion, as an example, NAIS may have its home University – however even Universities can be considered to be a business – thus they begin the program of establishing new NAIS on “Insert World Name here” policy – a modern ability to go where the full fee paying students are by establishing smaller yet highly reputable Universities closer to these students home worlds – the curriculum / support facilities / exams don’t change only the lecturers and the location of these lectures.

Yes I agree the implication of ‘lostech’ needs to be investigated and ensured that by the time of the Clans Invasion that all of the issues have been identified and fixed.

So in your opinion how goes the alt history?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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