Requiem
07/30/18 01:15 AM
58.175.193.140
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The Clan Invasion isn’t about logic or military strategy / tactics, in my opinion, it is about two things only –
First, Reversing the idea, that, the Inner Spheres technology being reduced to an almost 20th Century level due to an almost constant Warfare. New Space Operas being released (ideas and competitors of the game) required a higher level of technology – and in so doing you retain / increase the fan base with the introduction of advanced weapons etc.
Second, The Inner Sphere pre Clan Invasion Great houses numbers were dwindling – thus the writers / development staff felt they did not have enough enemy combatants to fight against each other (4 + the periphery) – bust with multiple independent Clans that fight everyone (including themselves) – more opportunities for conflict “by having more players of the field” as it were.
It is just a pity no one thought it all through before launching them into the Inner Sphere, if they had done so then maybe the writing would not have been so prosaic! And the extreme number of plot holes could have been minimised or even eliminated completely if a little more thought had been given to the Invasion.
But as it is – it is a mess of cringe-worthy plots that make little to no advancement in science fiction literature.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/30/18 01:57 AM
66.74.61.223
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Star commander is about the highest rank clans allow freeborns, and that is if they allow them in mechs at all. Some were completely denied, while others used them as needed.
The few ruling the clans comes from the blood named lines. If they kept with the original lines, most clans had like 20 blood lines in them. So about 400 people per clan had last names. They were those that ruled. Failed trainees were tended to be sent to other castes, though enough made mech warrior, only to fail in the eyes of those that rules, and sent to the infantry.
And the blood names were for Aero pilots as well as elementals, so not all were mech warriors. The numbers are probably wrong, as there was only 800 warriors that liberated the home worlds.
The IS, at least border worlds, tended to keep out of revolts and such when conquered, as invaders tended to kill civilians that rebelled. That also meant innocent people. Most did not have their lives changed more then when and who taxes went to. National pride was there, but would you walk up to someone that just took over by a gun and say they weren't in charge? We are talking societies that were used to being invaded. When you get raided once a year or more, you tend to get sick of it. Those who keep the peace are more likely to be welcomed then those that let you suffer the raids. Replacement of the top governmental people is very common, so police would still do what they were supposed to, even if they didn't like the new rules.
Becoming part of a resistance? Very possible, but do you risk your family being targeted if found out?
There is a small issue with the size of garrison needed for worlds. If you are reliant on things from off world, such as water purifiers, then you do as you are told, or die from thirst. Not a good thing to think of, but easy enough way to control the population.
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Requiem
07/30/18 06:56 AM
58.175.193.140
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With regards to the resistance – have a look at either WWII resistance movements within Europe and the Pacific or Vietnam …. Or you could even go back further …. “I am Spartacus!”
The desire to obtain freedom no matter the cost is ingrained within the human psyche!
And using a stand over technique to enforce civil compliance is a quick was to lose it – especially if an outside group can supply the people with the items / food / water they require to live
Remember this quote? …. “Those who trade freedom for security in the end get neither!”
The absence of insurgent groups / commando forces upon invaded worlds – especially when they will disrupt society the way Clans would want an Inner Sphere Society to ‘covert’ to a Clan Society – was never discussed (Huge plot hole) because of the distressing nature of the story wold inevitably devolve into (Rioting, reprisal killings etc). It would get dark very quickly, and this is going against how the Battletech universe is to be portrayed don’t you think?
As it is not about getting use to ongoing invasions by different forces – it is about how people are treated under the new change – it was documented that The FS and DC just changed the Public holidays – the Currency – and other small changes upon newly conquered worlds, they did not attempt a major change whatsoever, but the Clans they would demand a major change when they will attempt to force people into their way of life (hence the rise in insurgents).
And as discussed before most garrisons prior to Tukayyid and the introduction of PGCs were very small – thus they cannot enforce policy – they would be seen as week – they would become a target for insurgents angry at being forced to adopt clan life.
Question – How would an Inner Sphere family react when they are told their child will be fostered out to another family? Anger, rage, vengeance ….?
When these issues were never addressed by any of the books … the silence is the thunderous, don’t you think?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/30/18 11:10 AM
66.74.61.223
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Running along canon lines, the clans did address how they got around alot of the issues of the military takeover of the clans. Weither it is accepted or not, it was printed how the writers wanted it.
The conquered IS worlds would be a different story. Some clans were very brutal if you broke certain laws of theirs, while others were not so harsh. Once the people learned of them, they would not be so hard up for 'freedom' as they would have most of it under their 'rule' as they did under IS rule. In some cases, they would actually have more, as the clans didn't care about freeborns and what they did, as long as they followed their laws.
Those that used Comstar to administer worlds, had an advantage over those that didn't. The media manipulation and politically charged comstar admins, would have a better idea on how to keep the public in line.
As said with the FS and DC rang true for all the IS houses. Victor said that in the later books, while it was brought up with the fourth war as well. Most only had holidays and tax time changed.
The freedom statement shows the reason why some governments would never allow colonies to be self sufficient. And blockade runners? Some would still try, but those that owned the jumpships would think long and hard more then once before helping with it. Losing business, being blacklisted on up to having their property seized would prevent most of this. Large corporations may still do such things, as they can pass it off to 'rogue' members, but there has to be a good reason to do so. Rare elements, major ores or something to make the risks worth it.
Personally, I don't agree with doing things like starving a colony to keep it in line. I do understand the use of it. Part of why the Hemogany lost the worlds they did to the houses.
And a side note. No matter what, you will always have those people that think they should be able to do as they want, which normally means at the end of a gun. Gangs and illegal militias around today are very much along those lines.
This should actually go into another thread, as it is getting off the naval wars with the clans.
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Requiem
07/30/18 08:22 PM
58.175.193.140
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Yes I agree it is getting off the thread, but how many of my other posts in the past were constantly getting off thread by what was introduced to counter one argument from another?
That said ….
Following Clan rules and everything will be fine …. like I believe that … just be the lamb …. Give up your children (fostering) … just give up your family identity (last name) … just join a stratified society in which you will never have a say in the government as your “masters” who are genetically engineered to be better than you will have the final say on everything.
Be calm … everything is fine …don’t panic
QUOTE: The freedom statement shows the reason why some governments would never allow colonies to be self sufficient.
Errrr …. No …. Too overly simplistic statement, most would want them to be self-sufficient as they are no longer a drain on resources / plus it makes for good PR when, as a government official, you can point to a major success.
And part of being self-sufficient is the right to bear arms … the right to form militias against those that may oppose their way of life / just because it may be different does not mean it is wrong.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/31/18 12:52 AM
66.74.61.223
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The right to bear arms.
That alone would cause alot of governments to cringe. They want you to be dependent on them for things, especially who has weapons to fight back.
This isn't a single world that you can drop thousands of troops in another nation in a few hours. You are talking once you get word of something happening, it could be months before you get someone there to calm things down, if you can calm them down.
The hemogony and League had those issues.
The entire IS is based on feudalism. A few worlds band together, and form a new nation. No way other then a full out strike to bring them back into the fold if they are self sufficient. Now you send in the troops to take it back. Then rebuild, hoping those still alive will accept you back. Otherwise, you spend all this time and money for them to do it again. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
The lack of control over things is where this goes awry. The 'overlords' want to have everyone loyal to them. If they don't need you for anything, they are just as likely to say screw paying you taxes, as we can do things cheaper and easier, then keeping with you. They can always get the little they might need from someone else.
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Requiem
07/31/18 06:59 AM
58.175.193.140
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Being a colony that was trained by a parent world (and ensured they have the right type of ‘Chaps’ in control, that of the officers) and armed by the parent world – who will have family ties with their parent world – will support each other on the field of battel, as it would have to get very bleak indeed for two brother worlds to go to war against each other don’t you think?
If an issue does break out on the colony – like all military doctrine you have to trust the man on the ground to fix the problem – if they are unable to do so, then the House Lord will get involved, which will mean ‘Mechs etc to restore law and order.
And being self-sufficient does not mean that they will automatically become an autonomous world, a power unto itself, being part of collective group includes other factors such as, historical, economic, military, political, religious, and social factors. Also if you did declare independence how long would this last? Who would invade you – as sometimes its better the devil you know.
Though, yes some will always want their independence no matter how much better off they would be if they remained with the collective group (such as the Skye Liberation group?)
Even though it is a feudal society with regards to the senior levels of Government – How many worlds Lords compromise upon having absolute power and adopt a relationship with a democratic government upon that world / or something similar (ie. a very British Government for the betterment of their citizens) such as the Federated Commonwealth?
Thus you get the best out of both worlds for each world in the Inner Sphere.
Thus you also now have happy citizens who will die to protect this system that gives them a voice, and a future for them and their children and will look after them throughout all their life and that of the children’s life.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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csadn
07/31/18 10:22 PM
50.53.22.4
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"THE OUTWORLDS ALLIANCE: We shall fight them in space; we shall fight them in the air; we shall fight them -- oh, screw it, we'll just fight them in space."
(And it's *worked*.... >:) )
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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