Requiem
08/23/18 06:08 PM
58.175.193.140
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A ‘Spartan State’ requires an almost constant prerequisite to prove the strength of their warriors in battle – it also ensures a mindset in that anyone not within the military is to be considered a second class citizen as the warriors must constantly prove themselves superior – and in their consciousness this can only be demonstrated through an almost constant martial action.
This mentality therefore requires of the state warriors to be on an almost constant war footing in demonstrating their martial superiority …. their warriors pray for war.
It also has its flipside, the end of the myth of the Spartan military invulnerability, when this transpires only death in battle will satisfy.
Case in point By 3080 The Wolves required to make a demonstration of their superiority (Martial Strength) through a demonstration of their martial prowess due to an underlying fear that the Jihad had in some way had permanently weakened them. When comparing their strength between 3061 and 3081 their overall strength had been reduced by 40% and even more humiliating was the rise in the number of freeborn warriors, as the sibko programs was in shambles, into the touman and the need to utilise second-line clusters ‘Mechs to maintain their front line units in combat readiness.
However, by the time of the Dark Age Era in an effort to prove their martial prowess, Clan Wolf decided to move their Occupation Zone from their initial invasion corridor and make a new territory within the Lyran Skye Territory – This new occupation Zone would be renamed the Wolf Empire and they would also enable any Clan Wolf Warrior in Exile to return - a necessary evil to increase their overall strength?
However, there are questions that must be asked …
How did the Wolves accomplish the establishment of the Wold Empire as this would require them to extricate all their industries and people and transfer them over a vast distance to a newly conquered territory?
Are we expected to believe that they had all the necessary transport capabilities to do this – did they have the necessary resources to do this?
And if not who would assist in their move Diamond Shark or Ghost Bear?
And what of all the people who were once under their control – they cannot take the entire populations of whole planets with them thus they just let them go? So what happened to these planets, would a warrior be so willing to give up what they have conquered?
Could a Clan Wolf Khan even ask for assistance from that of another Clan?
Could a Clan Wolf Khan even let his enemies know of his intentions to move and establish a new empire?
So where was Jade Falcon, Hell Horses and Ghost Bears in this great move?
For when you are in movement are you not at your most vulnerable from attack – and given the level of animosity between these Clans why did they not attack them to demonstrate their martial strength and to further decimate a weakened foe?
Is it not more plausible that these Clans would attempt to increase their strength at the expense of the Wolves by taking as many as they could as Isorla (the spoils of battle) or just kill them outright.
Or did they just buy off these clans – don’t attack us while we leave and you can have our former planets – the act of a merchant not a warrior!
And what is also more unbelievable, since when does the Wolf align itself with that of an Inner-Sphere state run by an inexperienced non-warrior of a girl that they do not respect militarily.
The Wolves in exile were abjured for such a practice!
Being a “Spartan” Wolf their psychology is that of taking what they want – not acting as the “mercenaries” for a non-warrior state that tis ruled by a pathetic little girl who has no martial training what-so-ever – the Wolfs respect strength and only those people who can also demonstrate strength comparable to their own martial code.
These actions to me are not rational decisions from the view point of a Clan Wolf Warrior.
Your thoughts?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/24/18 01:41 AM
66.74.61.223
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Where did you come up with needing to move then entire industries to the IS?
Hesperus is in the Isle of Skye. Now this time frame is beyond the last book I got, so Defiance may have been destroyed. If not, that would make an excellent base of operations, as only upgrading it to make clan tech is needed. The people would need to be moved.
I would also believe the clans did not lose that many jumpships, and not sure how many of their warships that were lost either. As the merchants would very well rent out those ships for return items, IE IS items that could be sold in the home territory, which Defiance could well produce, would be something they would be interested in.
As for moving population, the ghost bears did it without others knowing, with the possible exception of clan Snow Raven, which built the ships they used, It is not that far fetched the wolves could do so as well. Simply hit the clans around you hard, and get them to stay out of your business, then move.
Asking another clan for help was done in the past, but it costs. The Smoke Jaguars and Jade Falcons during the invasion shows this.
A possibility with the other clans not taking advantage of it, may well be the fact, they may not gain from such an attack. They may very well lose enough from a fight to become a target for another clan. Ulric's war caused the Falcons issues. If not for the illegal scientist experiment of making warriors outside of the military's sight, would have destroyed them.
One more point, though I doubt they did it. The fact the ruler of this large industrial state was not a warrior, could well mean they could flex their muscles and cower the ruler into giving them what ever they wanted. Without having a base that the other clans could attack with ease. This would allow the wolves to keep most of their forces mobile.
Then again, ask the writers if you really want answers.
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Requiem
08/24/18 03:52 AM
58.175.193.140
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QUOTE: Where did you come up with needing to move then entire industries to the IS?
Given the Clans abhor waste and they are Clan Wolf when moving their entire realm they have two options when it comes to their industries – 1. Take it with them or 2. Blow it up (denying the enemy access to facilities)
So scorched earth policy as to any major military industry they cannot take with them?
Otherwise Clan Jade Falcon of Ghost Bear gets them?
As for Hesperus – wiki notes has as at 3145 that it is still under Lyran Control (for now).
Even with a minimal loss in Jump-ships throughout the years (which I doubt given the Jihad everything and anything was a target war) how could you transport all of your assets (people, industries, weapons etc) without enlisting the services of Diamond Shark / Ghost Bear to assist – and can you really see the Wolves asking anyone for help for any reason, as it is just not in their nature?
However the Ghost Bears got the Snow Raven to make the Leviathan carriers – and is I remember correctly their Clan Population was only 25 million – the Wolves do not have access to these type of carriers.
As for creating a distraction, by striking at your enemies, whilst attempting to move
1. This tactic will remove vial jump-ships from transport duty;
2. You cannot pin down all of your enemy’s forces (Bears, Horses and Falcons) – thus you open yourself up for a major counter attack when they sense weakness;
To successfully move you would need speed and the cover of darkness to mask your actions – you would also need someone to design the action so that it is like a collapsing paper bag (have a look at the plans for the escaping paratroopers at Arnheim in WW2)
As for asking for another Clans Help – really, can you see a Wolf Khan asking for help from a Khan Jade Falcon – his own troops would kill him from shame alone.
And no Intimidation tactics don’t work in the IS – you just find the weakest point(s) and attack.
And No I don’t want to ask the writers as I doubt they even know as I believe they were told move this to than and call it the Wolf Empire – then they were told don’t worry about the details of how we will work out how they did it later …… that is if there is ever a book on how it was done, in truth I believe there won’t be one as it is all just too difficult to explain.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/24/18 12:00 PM
66.74.61.223
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The factories may well be the payment for moving their population.
The Ghost Bears didn't bring their industries into the IS that I know of. As well as did it without the rest knowing. So it isn't impossible.
Now it was said the ghost bears were neutral to friendly with the wolves before the invasion. They got worried when the crusaders took over, though not sure if the relations drop that badly since.
Now with the jumpship issue, there are no real hard numbers on what the entire clans had. It was suggested the IS had more then what a lot think, while think the clans have so few?
The irony of this is kind of funny. Skye got out from under the LA/LC, but only because they were taken over by a foreign entity.
As for the khan of the time, I couldn't say. But Ulric would have. And I believe he did have an understanding with the Ghost Bears. They seemed to have a weakened shared border, so they could increase their borders with the Falcons/Jaguars respectively.
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happyguy49
08/24/18 04:13 PM
196.52.39.33
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"For when you are in movement are you not at your most vulnerable from attack"
Not necessarily, at least not in the battletech universe. Just to chime in, you can move without fear of interdiction if you just avoid star systems and instead move from point to point in deep space. They can move throughout space and just charge their drives with the fusion reactors instead of the sails. If only your own jumpship captains know the coordinates, there is no possible way an enemy would know where to attack a convoy moving like that.
If you can chunk up your shipyards, ferro fibrous/endo steel factories, and other space based war industries into 100,000 ton sections and stick docking collars on them, in a matter of weeks you could transport critical military production hundreds of light years.
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Requiem
08/24/18 04:59 PM
58.175.193.140
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QUOTE: "For when you are in movement are you not at your most vulnerable from attack"
Yes once you get ot into space you may have a degree of safety.
But if your fleet is found what then? I hope all of your fleets are protected by multiple warships otherwise you’ve lost a large part of your non-warriors etc to a rival Clan.
Though the main problem comes from when you are packing up getting ready to go – still on-world – if a rival Clan’s spys come to know this the Wolves would be in a world of pain form multiple Trials of Possession when they really don’t have the time to do so.
as for transporting mass Industries - where did they get the resources (Jumpships) to pull that rabbit out a hat?
Edited by Requiem (08/25/18 03:46 PM)
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