tmr01750195
11/30/18 12:16 PM
76.121.197.44
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Morning from WA,
Going through the CGL TM Industrial Equipment Table on p. 344 and reading the Reference pp. 216-217 I think there may be an error with the table. Before I go to BattleTech: The Board Game of Armored Combat Errata page I would like to make sure I'm not the error.
CGL TM p. 217 External Stores Hardpoint
"Tech Base: Inner Sphere and Clan
Unit Restrictions: Only Fixed-Wing Support Vehicles may install external stores hardpoints. (Conventional and aerospace fighters receive them free.)
Construction Rules: Aerospace and conventional fighters receive external stores hardpoints (also known as bomb hardpoints) for free (see Add Weapons, Ammunition and Other Equipment in the Aerospace section, p. 194). To acquire the same capability, Fixed-Wing Support Vehicles must install hardpoints. A Fixed-Wing Support Vehicle may carry a maximum of 1 hardpoint for every 10 tons of unit weight (rounded down).
Table Reference: Weapons and Equipment (Industrial, pp. 344–345) Game Rules: Total Warfare, p. 245"
The Industrial Equipment Table on p. 344 lists External Stores Hardpoint with a SV Space of 1 and a F Space as NA.
Based on the reference I think that the F Space column should be 0 (zero) to indicate that Aerospace and Conventional Fighters mount external stores hardpoints.
Would this be something worth adding to the CGL TM Errata?
Tom Rux
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ghostrider
11/30/18 12:36 PM
66.74.61.223
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Not Applicable seems to be the better word for it, as they are there before you add equipment. Zero would make it sound like more can be added.
This is assuming that the space is per hardpoint added, ie 10 ton unit has one, while a 100 ton unit might have 10.
As aerospace and conventional fighters don't need to add any more the larger the size, it may be easier as well. Saying zero might confuse someone into thinking they need to add more if the units are 20 tons or larger.
Also, costs might come into play. It is stupid, but figuring costs, NA means ignore, while 0 means you come up with an error. Anything times 0 is 0, but using a computer normally stops math functions without a special code. They may have fixed this since I dealt with it, but it is something that may be an issue.
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tmr01750195
11/30/18 11:47 PM
76.121.197.44
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Hi ghostrider,
Quote:
Not Applicable seems to be the better word for it, as they are there before you add equipment. Zero would make it sound like more can be added.
This is assuming that the space is per hardpoint added, ie 10 ton unit has one, while a 100 ton unit might have 10.
As aerospace and conventional fighters don't need to add any more the larger the size, it may be easier as well. Saying zero might confuse someone into thinking they need to add more if the units are 20 tons or larger.
Also, costs might come into play. It is stupid, but figuring costs, NA means ignore, while 0 means you come up with an error. Anything times 0 is 0, but using a computer normally stops math functions without a special code. They may have fixed this since I dealt with it, but it is something that may be an issue.
To me Not Applicable (NA) means that the units with the notation cannot be equipped with the particular weapon or item.
Reviewing the referenced page provides the information that the external stores hardpoint is available to aerospace and conventional fighters have them without allocating slots and no cost in C-Bills. The Cost and Availability section has a note that the cost applies "only if the unit is not an aerospace or conventional fighter."
Thank you for the reply and providing a plausible answer to why the entry is NA. Your answer will also avoid me making another gaff with a unwarranted post.
Tom Rux
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ghostrider
12/01/18 02:33 AM
66.74.61.223
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I can see where that might cause some issues. Guess they didn't have an example to avoid confusion with it.
And it is possible they screwed it up as well.
The Industrial Equipment Table on p. 344 lists External Stores Hardpoint with a SV Space of 1 and a F Space as NA
Is this statement about space it takes for the Hardpoint?
As vehicles have only so 'crits' they can use for such things such as ammo taking up a spot, or ferrous fiber armor, I can see where that would fit here. Technically, you couldn't add any, as they already exist.
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tmr01750195
12/01/18 02:11 PM
76.121.197.44
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Morning from WA ghostrider,
Quote:
I can see where that might cause some issues. Guess they didn't have an example to avoid confusion with it.
And it is possible they screwed it up as well.
The Industrial Equipment Table on p. 344 lists External Stores Hardpoint with a SV Space of 1 and a F Space as NA
Is this statement about space it takes for the Hardpoint?
As vehicles have only so 'crits' they can use for such things such as ammo taking up a spot, or ferrous fiber armor, I can see where that would fit here. Technically, you couldn't add any, as they already exist.
The format for columns of the weapons & equipment tables are the same, okay the Aerospace Weapon Classes Table is the exception, on CGL TM pp. 341-352.
On the Inner Sphere Heavy Weapons & Equipment Table under the Space P(rotoMech) column is listed as NA. CGL TM Components p. 10 indicates that ProtoMechs are "a strictly Clan invention", which is also reinforced in the ProtoMech Construction chapter. Based on the information the NA in the ProtoMech Space entries means that Inner Sphere Heavy Weapons & Equipment cannot be installed since the unit does not exist.
On the Clan Heavy Weapons & Equipment Table cross-referencing the LB 10-X an LB 20-X ACs under the Space P(rotoMech) column NA is listed for both weapons. Following the Inner Sphere table format the NA indicates the two ACs cannot be used. The reason they cannot be used is that the maximum tonnage of a ProtoMech is 9 tons, both weapon exceed the unit's tonnage.
External Stores hardpoints are installed on just about all military aircraft that I know of in the real world, The Industrial Equipment Table Space F(ighter) column has NA which based on the other two tables appears to mean they cannot be installed on aerospace and conventional fighters. Going to the reference page and looking at the Aerospace Unit Construction chapter aerospace and conventional fighters get them automatically while other units have to pay in space, WT, and C-Bills.
I hope I made sense and thank you for your help.
Tom Rux
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tmr01750195
12/04/18 02:12 PM
76.121.197.44
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Hello all,
From CGL TM Heavy Weapons and Equipment Key p. 341
Space Entry Code: NA; Construction Notes: Item may not be mounted on these units
Per the note in my opinion the Industrial Equipment Table p. 344 Space Column entry for External Stores Hardpoint under F of NA conflicts with the p. 216 Ref indicating that aerospace and conventional fighters have External Stores Hardpoint installed without additional cost in slots and C-Bills.
Of course I am not sure what to use to show that conventional and aerospace fighters are built with the with External Stores Hardpoints.
Tom Rux
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