Warhammer vs two Clints Who wins?

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Karagin
11/21/18 10:30 AM
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A WHM-7M Warhammer vs 2 CLNT-2-3U Clints

Both sides have the same Piloting 5 and Gunnery Skills of 4

Terrain is small village, light woods and tilled fields

Can the Warhammer win?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
11/21/18 07:00 PM
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Can the Warhammer win? Yes, though it looks like a fairly equal match.

The firepower is pretty similar: 2 ER PPCs on both sides, 4 MPLs for the Clints vs 2 medium lasers and an SRM 6 on the Warhammer.

The armor and structure totals are similar: 9 tons on the Clints vs about...looks like 10 tons of armor on the Warhammer? And 134pts of Clint structure vs 107pts of Warhammer structure.

The Clints have an advantage in mobility and thus their defensive to-hit numbers, which can significantly shift hit rates in their favor.

The Warhammer has the advantage of being able to handle multiple heavy hits - the Clints fall apart fast when they take multiple ER PPC hits.

The net balance, in my opinion, favors the Clints if the battle is repeated numerous times. They're harder to hit, which makes a lot of difference when to-hit numbers climb above 6, and they have roughly equal firepower and endurance.

However, it is a close match. A few lucky hits from the Warhammer can quickly eliminate one or both Clints. If the Clints blunder into the battle - they don't see the Warhammer in the woods, for example - and end up at low target numbers, then they're in trouble.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
11/21/18 10:58 PM
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Thanks for the break down of the fight. I am trying to put some scenarios together for an upcoming battle and this one was one that I wanted to try.

One question if either side plays the terrain in that they use it to keep the numbers up would that effect the fight or would the eventual damage be the factor of concern?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
11/22/18 01:45 PM
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Quote:
One question if either side plays the terrain in that they use it to keep the numbers up would that effect the fight or would the eventual damage be the factor of concern?



Terrain will help the Warhammer some, especially since it'll have some trouble keeping one of the Clints off its back without the light woods. But they also give the Clints a chance to drive their defensive TNs through the roof or get close to use their pulse lasers.

I'm going to have to try this scenario at some point.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
CrayModerator
12/02/18 06:18 PM
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I played the scenario with a friend. We used a map with some scattered light woods, one hill, and some level 1 and 2 light buildings. Double blind rules were in effect to make the most of terrain. Both sides had 4/5 pilots, and BV definitely favored the Clints (~1400 vs 2100).

In the first round, I played the Warhammer. I tried to outmaneuver the jumpy little Clints, which didn't work well. So I cheesed it and kept the Warhammer on the edge of the board where they couldn't get behind me (often). After trying to pound on my exposed butt once...wait, I should rephrase that...the Clints didn't run far enough on the next turn and I was able to turn and land some heavy hits on one. The vulnerability of the Clints to big dollops of damage was emphasized when I blew off a Clint's leg. It became a one-on-one duel.

After the demise of the first Clint, the battle became a real war of maneuver as my friend tried to avoid stand-and-deliver exchanges again. The Clint would jump and hide to cool down, and then return to snipe at high target numbers. The Clint was harder to hit, but the Warhammer could sustain twin ER PPC salvos until the cows came home. And the cows had time to come home because a battle where target numbers stay at 10-12 is really slow.

It finally came down to my Warhammer losing its leg. And it was such a good turn for me: after turns of useless sniping I planted an ER PPC in the second Clint's face and peppered it with my SRM 6. That would've helped victory but, kaboom, triple crit on my right leg. I went down and my MechWarrior was knocked out from the fall (and a prior light head hit). I conceded the game there.

The Clint was subject to negative feedback on its heat capacity. While the 36 heat capacity of the Warhammer could handle an alpha strike every other turn and then return to 0 heat by holding off on one ER PPC on the second turn, there were a lot of 4-letter comments about the constant struggle for heat regulation on the Clint.

I'm going to try this scenario again since this fight amounts to a statistical sample of one and it hinged on some lucky rolls.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
12/02/18 06:44 PM
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Nice! I like the write up!

Did the terrain type play a larger factor?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
12/03/18 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Did the terrain type play a larger factor?



Sort of. The game would've gone differently if we hadn't used the TacOps double blind rules. The Clints' player liked to jump them away into the fog of war to cool down. Without double blind, I would've known where the Clints were even if I couldn't shoot at them because of excessive tree hexes, and the map had enough tree hexes to mask them. Without double blind, I could've moved more intelligently and made it harder for them to find a safe spot. With it, and with the woods, I had to stumble around blindly to guess where they were on cooling turns.

However, even without double blind I still would've tried to keep my back to the edge of the map. The edge of the map was the most important "terrain" for the Warhammer. The Clints' jumping capacity matched the Warhammer's maximum movement so there was no good way to keep my back free of one the Clints without the edge. Using the edge like that on essentially open terrain is, IMO, unrealistic cheese, but it helped me.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
12/03/18 09:13 PM
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But wouldn't an actual pilot use the town or even some of the woods to screen their back when possible?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
12/04/18 01:14 AM
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They could still be attacked from behind if they used buildings. The map edge, means they can't get there. Even firing from inside the building could happen. So side shots, no back shots.

I know this is Karagin's scenario, but would it even things a little more if the warhammer was a IIC? Not changing the skills, just the warhammer model.
CrayModerator
12/26/18 11:38 PM
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Got in a second round. Different player had the Warhammer, I had a Clint, and another player had a Clint.

The Clints won relatively easily this time. They were starting to accumulate some damage - I lost my left arm and torso - but the Clints kept their defensive target numbers higher than the Warhammer's so the damage mostly flowed one way. With two players running the Clints, we did a better job of flanking the 'Hammer.

The Clints' tactics was to jump into multiple hexes of woods when they lost initiative and jump into an advantageous position when we won. With double blind options in effect, the Warhammer sometimes got away from us but the board wasn't big enough to stay hidden for long.

The Warhammer's player never used my "tactic" of hugging the edge of the board, but he's an aggressive player and wanted to close in with his victims. That worked against him since it meant at least one of the Clints was behind him most of the time.

I understand the frustration of the Clints' player in the first round a month ago. They are heat pigs. I was almost never able to fire both medium lasers with the ER PPC since I was constantly adding 5-6 heat from jumping.

But the Clints won, and more easily than last time.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
12/27/18 12:23 AM
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Thanks Cray. The heat hound issue I had noticed before. I will make a note of that.

Ghostrider the mechs are IS standards only, the scenario is not for any Clan items or mechs.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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