Cray
11/03/01 10:24 AM
12.78.130.101
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I saw this idea on rec.games.mecha, proposed by someone else, but I dunno who, so just consider this base plagiarization.
I'm repeating this due to the chronic misunderstanding of how improved triple strength myomers (TSM-I) work.
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Triple Strength Myomers (TSM) have an incredible allure to them. They make mechs faster, stronger, meaner for not so much as single ton and only 6 crits. But they're a pain in the butt to use: you need to hold your heat in a very narrow range to avoid losing MPs gained and put up with annoying targeting penalties.
But consider how TSM are activated: the ambient heat of mech lights them off. Once heat rises to 9, TSM come alive. In other words, when the TSM are heated to X degrees celsius, they perform much better than when colder.
But why does the heat need to be ambient heat from mech weaponry? Heat is heat. And, frankly, depending on a pair of arm-mounted ER PPCs (on a TSM Warhammer, frex) to soak up through the arms, down the torso, and into the legs (past quite a few heat sinks) to get that extra MP seems unrealistic. (Ooo, dirty word in BT.)
Rather than depending on unreliable ambient heat, what if the TSM were equipped with its own heating system? Each myomer bundle could be laced with flexible heating wires. When you wanted TSM, you'd turn on the heating system just like the rear defroster on your car. The triple strength myomers would get the heat they wanted at the level they wanted when they wanted it.
Of course, sticking electric heaters throughout the limbs of a mech has its side effects: heat.
GAME RULES
TSM-I perform like normal TSM, BUT are simply activated with the flip of a switch. That's it, flip the switch, TSM-I on.
THEY DO NOT REQUIRE A MINIMUM HEAT LEVEL TO FUNCTION.
TSM-I FUNCTION AT ANY HEAT LEVEL, FROM 0 TO 30.
In addition, their placement is somewhat different than normal TSM. They occupy 1 critical slot in each limb and 2 in the center torso (the CT myomers may be split to 1 per side torso), representing a balanced distribution of major myomer groups. This is to provide an extra, fixed requirement to annoy mech designers and thus add an element of balance to the TSM-I.
TSM-I are activated (and deactivated) in the weapons fire phase of a turn. They become active (or cool below their activation level) at the very beginning of the NEXT turn.
Remember: normal TSM activate when the mech's heat scale is at 9. TSM-I activates when you flip a switch, no matter what the mech's heat scale is.
As a side effect of their operation TSM-I GENERATE 8 heat. This does not automatically affect a mech's heat scale. A mech with 4 spare DHS will remain at 0 heat when TSM-I are turned on. This is like firing a large laser every turn, not turning off 4 DHS or 8 SHS.
Remember: normal TSM activate when the mech's heat scale is at 9. TSM-I activates when you flip a switch, no matter what the mech's heat scale is.
TSM-I are not compatible with MASC units, but are compatible with supercharging.
These do look pretty potent, but I don't see anyway to balance them beyond the above restrictions. Adding calibrated heating wires to TSM seems like a no-brainer.
Comments? Suggestions?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
11/03/01 05:06 PM
12.78.180.18
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I recommend google.groups (which picked up the deja.com newsreader):
www.deja.com
Sign up (it's free) and then click through the various soc., alt., rec., etc. hierachies to get to the newsgroups you want to read. For RGM, you'd go to rec., then rec.games, then rec.games.mecha. Rec.games.frp covers a host of roleplaying games (frp = fantasy roleplaying).
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Korbel
11/04/01 08:42 AM
24.4.252.110
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Perhap's half a ton for the heating equipment... or even a quarter ton... and I don't think would be much use for Mylomers in the head... though some mechs DO turn their heads(as in the Atlas)... but maybe that could be neck muscles and be that extra CT crit.
I also don't agree with the heat generated... since you need to heat the mylomers... you could have the heaters embedded in the mylomer bundle.. (not in the strands but with the strands surrounding a heater core) then the Actual Mylomer's would be Insulating the rest of the mech from the heat... hmm... but the mech would still have an absolute Temp.. ok I think you are fine in that aspect.. but I hope you see where I was coming from...
I think except for needing added tonnage (even minimal) your TSM-I looks well balanced for game purposes.
Michael Loveless
Nuclear Electrician
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Cray
11/04/01 12:41 PM
12.78.130.196
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Sorry...can't help myself...it's Myomer, with no L.
>I also don't agree with the heat generated... since you need to heat the mylomers... you could have the heaters embedded in the mylomer bundle.. (not in the strands but with the strands surrounding a heater core) then the Actual Mylomer's would be Insulating the rest of the mech from the heat
Sorry, heat will come out of the myomers. They aren't purpose designed insulators. Myomers generate heat when operated normally. Now stick heating wires in them?
I'm not sure by what you mean about myomers in the head. TSM-I do not require the use of a head's critical space, just 2 in the CT OR 1 in each side torso.
Weight. How about 2.5% of the mech's weight? That would range from 0.5 tons for a 20-ton mech to 2.5 tons for a 100-ton mech. 5% would be a significant weight penalty.
Good thoughts.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
11/05/01 06:25 AM
204.245.128.108
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Correct. If the heaters are off but the mech's heat scale reaches 9, the TSM turns on anyway.
I took that wording out between revisions because I suspected it of being the source of some confusion.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Korbel
11/05/01 10:06 PM
24.178.190.27
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Simply Regarding the Insulation issue...
EVERYthing is an insulator (excluding hypothetical Super conductors) Even though the Mylomers themselves are generating heat the heat from the Heaters would be less after being conducted through the Myomers. The only Variable in this would be the temperature coeffiecent of the myomers.
I would hope as a Material Engineer you would know basic Heat transfer principles...
Michael Loveless
Nuclear Electrician
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Cray
11/06/01 07:03 AM
204.245.128.108
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>Simply Regarding the Insulation issue...
There's an issue left about it?
>EVERYthing is an insulator (excluding hypothetical Super conductors)
What's your point? I didn't say anything to contradict that in my last post. In fact, I think I made that very point.
>Even though the Mylomers themselves are generating heat the heat from the Heaters would be less after being conducted through the Myomers.
No, the amount of heat energy would be the same after coming through the myomers or any other substance. What would vary is the rate of release, which depends on...
>The only Variable in this would be the temperature coeffiecent of the myomers.
...the 'thermal conductivity' of the material. (That's the term you're looking for.) It's usually measured in Watts per degree Kelvin per meter, which should tell you something about the time, distance, energy, and temperature dependence of thermal conductivity.
>I would hope as a Material Engineer you would know basic Heat transfer principles
I'm not sure of your point in this whole post. I didn't say anything that contradicted any laws of thermodynamics in my posts in this thread, and would not offended even my Thermodynamics professor (Yes, the Dark One who caused me so much emotional trauma and deeply scarred my inner child).
When you turn on a heater inside a material, the material will warm up until such time as the heat input from the heaters and heat output are balanced. In the case of the Improved Triple Strength Myomers, when this equilibrium is reached (the turn after activation - see TSM-I rules), heat is being emitted from the myomers at the rate of 8 points of heat per turn.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Korbel
11/06/01 07:26 AM
24.4.252.111
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I'm sorry about my last post... I was seriously stressed out and PO'd last night but not at your post... My wife is being a B@#$H.
I apologize for my statements and accusations.
Michael Loveless
Nuclear Electrician
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Cray
11/06/01 10:49 AM
204.245.128.108
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Well, alrighty then. Feel free to vent on me. I'm on the internet - I can't throw heavy objects at your head. :)
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Korbel
11/06/01 12:04 PM
206.152.237.32
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well thanks for your understanding... You're right.... Its Thermal conductivity I was attempting to refer to...
Michael Loveless
Nuclear Electrician
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Gyrfalcon
11/09/11 08:12 AM
24.236.156.39
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I like this idea. I came up with something similar years ago and sent FASA a letter suggesting it but nothing came of it.
I'm not certain why everyone is so worried about balancing the new weapons and equipment with the old. New weapons are suppose to be better than the old and replace them.
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Karagin
11/09/11 11:36 AM
210.5.193.45
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It is more about keeping the system play balanced, the game is not about one shot one kill weapons, it is about things like sand blasting off armor etc...balance means more then keeping the old weapons around or in play.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
11/09/11 09:38 PM
173.168.112.109
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Wow...a 10-year, 3-day thread necromancy. Gyrafalcon is a powerful necromancer. 
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
11/10/11 04:19 AM
210.5.193.45
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It beats the spam we have been seeing...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
11/19/11 01:49 PM
74.198.150.139
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We just need more activity on the Designs forum. Perhaps a new Design Challenge?
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
11/20/11 07:45 AM
210.5.193.45
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Yes that would be fun...I have some I could post but no fluff or even basics like who built it...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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