Requiem
03/24/19 04:29 AM
1.158.130.13
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Under the Wiki Page ….Justinia's Cuirassiers we have the following statement ….
“In 2987 the unit became the backbone of a relief force that helped break the Davion siege of Tikonov by attacking the Federated Suns world of Aosia and causing the Davion units on Tikonov to pull out”.
And as for wiki page regarding Aosia ….
“The Aosia system was absent from maps dating from 2366 onwards, indicating that the system had been depopulated or abandoned, but was recolonized at some point during the Star League era after the end of the Reunification War.
The Aosia system was subsequently removed from maps during the Third Succession War, indicating that the system had been abandoned or depopulated for a second time”.
So, errrrr …….
How could a world that was NEVER occupied by the Federated Suns (was only ever occupied by Capellans) and can be considered to have little to no military use cause any Davion units to withdraw from the strategically vital world Tikonov?
Can we choose a more important Federated Suns world within the vicinity of Tikonov then?
So suggestions for a FS world you could put in jeopardy that could be considered more important than Tikonov – that is also close in proximity to Tikonov?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
03/24/19 04:58 AM
1.158.130.13
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Star Maps
You would assume that each Jump-Ships Navigation Computer would hold the coordinates for every world they have visited (as well as every pirate map useful for smuggling contraband).
We also know that the majority of Jump-Ships, like their Battlemech compatriots, have been family owned from pre Star League to the current date.
So how can worlds go missing from their maps?
Do Jump-Ships require updated maps – that also contain a ComStar Virus that wipes certain worlds from the Jump-Ship maps? Surely you would expect anti-virus software upon a Navi-computer?
So, how was this never discovered?
And what if old and illicit maps were contained upon an air-gapped system and they were periodically compared to newer maps. Irregularities would be discovered sooner than later.
And what of those Captains that don’t want to pay for new ComStar Maps and just pay for maps from fellow Captains at a discounted price for normal maps and a more expensive price for the more illicit routes.
Then we have military maps …. You would expect that each house would have star maps going back to the inception of each House as well as those used by the original homesteaders venturing out from Terra to their new home world … as they are a very valuable historical document …. You might assume that someone within the map room might dredge out these maps to find a new route to a specific target world (as per the war of 3039).
So when comparing the old to the new, new lost worlds can be found and explored once again ….?
Thus making a hidden world that does not exist upon any map a very difficult thing to achieve once you give it due consideration. That is unless they are a totally new world that has never been found and kept secret from all but a very few.
Thoughts?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
03/24/19 03:58 PM
66.74.60.165
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Assuming those maps didn't get hit with viruses and such, and survived things like memory systems damaged and such, they should hold coordinates to systems that might have been lost due to damage.
The first thought is comstar sending out routine viruses and such to remove systems from computers.
But yet, caches and such end up with some coordinates to systems kind of regularly.
And military organizations would have back ups for their bases, especially abandoned or secret bases.
The Aosia system was absent from maps dating from 2366 onwards, indicating that the system had been depopulated or abandoned, but was recolonized at some point during the Star League era after the end of the Reunification War.
I think you missed the major word in this. Recolonized. The statement says it was recolonized after the end of the reunification war. So between the fall of the League, and 2987, it is possible it was used for a staging area to hit Tikonov.
The loss of data due to viruses may well be someone with the primary coding, could have used a back door, or just the command password to do what they want and not be known to have been there. A good example is windows. For Microsoft to get in and fix issues, they have the overriding password they use. Someone getting a hold of that could very well do their damage.
As a side note here, it is possible that the coding for the computers used, may well have the delete function for some worlds as part of their main program. I doubt anyone has gone thru the whole program to see if there is anything like this.
Debugging someone elses work, especially if it was 'fixed' by others is a nightmare. Some never put in any sort of notes on what was done.
Giving exploration and the exodus, there has to be a way to 'discover' coordinates for new systems. I seriously doubt those were in the main jump coordinate computers.
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Requiem
03/24/19 05:43 PM
1.158.130.13
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First, yes civilian computers may be open to possible a fix.
And yet how many people collect maps especially old ones that show a historical point of time?
How many are stored within repositories throughout the Inner Sphere?
And how many end up upon a wall like a piece of art?
Though the biggest issue is the military – they would have had copies stored within vaults to be used when an Operation is being planned …. Especially old ones that show hidden systems that they can use to attack without any warning whatsoever
And as for Aosia – this world has no value whatsoever even as a staging area ….
Tikonov’s Coordinates X:Y 102.838 : -42.217
And Aosia’s Coordinates X:Y 112.622 : -141.194 - thus the closest planets to this is Remshield X:Y 97.445 : -139.89
So how can a planet that is near Sarna affect the fighting that is occurring upon that of Tikonov?
Whoops …. No, this dog don’t hunt!
The time taken to remove troops from Tikonov and send them all the way to Aosia would be months – the fighting would be over unless it was a protracted campaign and there is no evidence of a protracted campaign within the cannon history … between the FC and the CC around the Sarna area in 2987.
However this still does not distract from the point that Aosia was NEVER captured by the FC is was wholly owned by the CC from beginning to end ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
03/25/19 02:08 AM
66.74.60.165
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One probably reason for the difference is the original game didn't rely on too much real information or details.
Proof reading didn't seem to be a big necessity at times as well. It could very well be a mistake that was never seen or fixed.
The guns on a drop ship were made to sound like warship weapons that could target mechs. Any real military unit would know this isn't true. Having alot more weapons to use, yes. That would be known. But for a single ppc hit on a mech would not wipe out a company's worth of armor.
If I recall, it was stated in an earlier thread that when they started the full scale coords for worlds, a few got a large movement on where they were at. I don't remember where this was at though.
There is an argument about using worlds the enemy would discount as staging bases, but there is a limit to this.
Though I would think if Aosia was above the Sarna line when the FC invaded the CC during the 4th war, the last statement might be off. I don't have any of the books with me right now to even look at this.
I do agree that time changes the usefulness of some worlds for front line attacks. Well beyond the first sneak attack strikes to happen. A world little pay attention to, then use uninhabited systems to travel to the target world comes to mind, but once it goes off, you need something closer to keep up the pace, or deal with reinforcements.
I can say there is a way a world far from the target planet could affect the outcome, is when that world is launching raids to decoy and distract reinforcements from being sent to the primary world, but this does have it's limit. Unless a major border wide attack was going on, this would not really fit.
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Carns
03/25/19 11:21 AM
168.9.128.5
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Please remember NOTHING in the Battletech universe is written from the God's Eyes viewpoint. That is, every single thing is written as part of a larger briefing document from one person to another or to a group, and includes the misconceptions, biases, and exaggerations of the author.
The Wiki frequently does not include this statement, and tries to draw from multiple sources to give as an unbiased, factually correct information as possible. However, in some instances, only a single source exists, or the Wiki compiler interjects their own bias or misconceptions into the composite material.
In the first case, the planet was likely not Aosia, but something else.
In the second, while it is incredibly popular for Captians and Mechwarriors to CLAIM that their machine is 400 years old and served in the SLDF and liberated Terra... the reality of the situation should immediately make you question it. At best, maybe a couple of Mechs might be that old... if they have done nothing but stand silent guard over a backwater world's capitol, only piloted during parades... sure, that Mech might actually be 400 years old.
However, a Mech that sees battle has a shelf life... very, very few piloted by only the best pilots are ever going to last more than 25 battles or so. Eventually, your luck is going to run out.
All those Mech factories... if every Mech is 400 years old, did the new mechs just pile up unused at the end of the assembly lines?
Mechs that were really SLDF Mechs would have still spouted SLDF quality gear, like XL engines or ER Large Lasers. The last ER Large rolled off the assembly line in 2950... only 75 years separated from 3025... but it was completely extinct.
Mechs might be old, and it might be fun to exaggerate how old it is, but really... even the 50 year old Mechs are the exception... even in 3025.
The same is true for the JumpShips Even though they are not commonly the targets of military warfare, the simple truth is that the equipment just doesn't last that long. The act of jumping stresses the hull. The KF Drive ages. A society that has the ability to repair a Jumpship has the ability to replace a Jumpship, because you either have the parts, or you don't. You have the facility to repair it, you have the facility to build a new one. Once the hull goes into metal fatigue, it is more costly, and more manpower, to repair it than it is to replace it.
And, as such, you aren't using 400 year old computers, unupdated, for your jump calculations.
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Frabby
03/26/19 05:12 AM
84.185.67.230
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Quote:
Please remember NOTHING in the Battletech universe is written from the God's Eyes viewpoint. That is, every single thing is written as part of a larger briefing document from one person to another or to a group, and includes the misconceptions, biases, and exaggerations of the author.
The Wiki frequently does not include this statement, and tries to draw from multiple sources to give as an unbiased, factually correct information as possible. However, in some instances, only a single source exists, or the Wiki compiler interjects their own bias or misconceptions into the composite material.
Beg to differ.
BattleTech does differ between "novel fiction" (omniscient, or in your words God's Eye viewpoint) and "sourcebook fiction" (purported in-universe documents subject to possible bias or error).
Sarna.net BTW policy is to assume every information is accurate by default; in cases of conflicting (irreconcileable) information there is a layered process to determine what should be assumed to be the truth, as outlined in the article about Canon , subsection 5: "Veracity" (and particularly 5.4, "Conflicting information").
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Requiem
03/26/19 08:03 AM
1.158.130.13
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Frabby, here we have some conflicting information in that Aosia was never a Federated Suns World and given its distance from Tikonov I cannot understand the reason why FS forces would withdraw.
Can I suggest a new world to be considered in place of Aosia – a world that is close to Tikonov and is also important to the FS.
How about either (and both are within one jump of Tikonov and Both are important)
Sonnia – considering it’s a vacation paradise (who could have been on vacation at the time as an important target of opportunity?) and for its nuclear power was vitally important to the Capellan March / or
Marlette – an attack against Fort Bourgogne?
Either or would make for a rational reason as to why FS would withdraw as they were needed upon these close FS worlds and both would make for an interesting game for people to play.
Your thoughts please?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Frabby
03/26/19 10:28 AM
84.185.67.230
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I am of the opinion that Sarna shouldn't make stuff up. We're collating and talking about BattleTech canon, but have no influence over it.
That said, I did a little research. Looks like you found something quite interesting.
In the writeup for the Tikonov campaign in 2987 on p. 50 of the Liao housebook, Aosia isn't mentioned and the counterattack (or rather, pre-emptive strike) to relieve pressure on Tikonov is against the Davion stronghold of Lee, with Justinia's Cuirassiers explicitly mentioned.
So you could assume that the writeup on p. 89 meant Lee, not Aosia.
It's not that easy though:
Aosia is mentioned numerous times in the book, and there are very many references to what appears to have been a big battle in 2987 in various unit writeups. There's also at least one battle mentioned there in 2828.
At this point, my impression is that the Sarna writeup on Aosia is woefully incomplete. I'll have to do some further research and cross-check other housebooks (Davion and Marik in particular), and also the newer Handbooks for Liao, Davion and Marik.
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ghostrider
03/26/19 01:12 PM
66.74.60.165
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There is a possible solution to this issue. I know Sarna wants to keep all information as close to canon as possible, so here it goes.
Aosia may have been a stopping off point for reinforcements going to Tikonov and were engaged there. Without those reinforcements coming, the FS forces on Tikonov had to pull back, as they were being routed, and had no chance to stay.
One clarifying question comes to mind.
Does it say that the Davion forces retreated to Aosia first, before heading back into the FS? Or that they even launched from Aosia?
This isn't the first time some information was never put into the game that could have clarified a few things.
And this isn't any sort of dig on the site here. It was FASA and others, that left out or forgot to fill in some blanks.
Carns. Use math to see that some of the mechs had to be old. The IS did not produce enough mechs to keep hundreds, if not thousands of regiments in the field, given the poor production numbers. Being original? There is the argument with that.
Also, how many of the example ER lasers were built then?
Also, read about the comstar cache of mechs. They did not build them. They were stored when they found them, with some warehouses being on earth that still had some. Some of them sold to Kurita for the 3039 war.
As said before, the developers didn't think about the League as they made the original game. To my limited knowledge, no caches before 2750 came out, had ANY upgraded tech in them. The Goliaths in the 4th war were recovered mechs, but they didn't have the advanced tech in them.
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Requiem
03/26/19 06:34 PM
1.158.130.13
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Aosia – House Liao – The Capellan Confederation
Pg
15 – Following a decisive naval victory off Alcyone, the bulk of the Kluanian opposition was caught and crushed en route to Aosia in early April 2306.
NT: Kluanian pirates – recruited by Sarna during the Capellan Hegemony and the Sarna Supremacy War – these pirates may have received covert support from members of House Davon.
77 – In 2828, the Lancers (Red Lancers) saw combat with the Prefectorate Guard against the Avalon and Ceti Hussars in the unsuccessful four-day contest for the Davion world of Aosia.
78 – Under the title Prefectorate Guard – In 2828, the guard was employed as part of the disasterous attack on the Davion Industrial centre of Aosia, during which Chancellor Ilsa Liao was killed. It is rumoured that on the second day of that action, several Hunchback and Rifleman lancers of the Guard broke and ran under fire, thus permitting the Ceti Hussars to outflank and nearly surround the Capellan Ground forces. The official history of the regiment reads differently, however, suggesting that the regiment’s third battalion was overrun early in the second day of fighting before badly neded reinforcements could arrive.
86 – Under the title Trimaldi’s Secutors – In 2987, the Secutors were involved in the Capellan raid on Aosia, during which the Avalon Hussars again inflicted a sharp check on the unit’s lighter ‘Mechs, but not before the Secutors’ motorized infantry succeeded in overrunning an important Davion communications centre, seriously disrupting an important Davion communications centre, seriously disrupting the counterattack.
87 – Under the title Tikonov Reserves / Kincade's Rangers – In 2987, the Rangers were assigned the role of principal contingent in the Capellan raid on Aosia. From a rear-area depot on Aosia’s southern hemisphere, the Rangers captured three Davion Corsair Aerospace fighters intact, the first ever obtained by the Confederation. While the rest of the Capellan Invaders took the brunt of the Davion counterattacks, Kincade’s battalions ranged far afield, destroying vast numbers of crops and munitions stores, withdrawing with only two BattleMechs lost in four weeks of campaigning.
89 - Under the title Justinia’s Cuirassiers – In 2987, the Cuirassiers formed the backbone of the Capellan’s successful relief of Tikonov by attacking the Davion stronghold of Aosia.
90 – Under the title Stapleton’s Iron Hand - …. the Iron Hand first saw action in 2987 in the Capellan raid on Aosia.
91 – Under the title Shepard’s Mounted Fusiliers – In the 2987 Capellan raid on Aosia, the Fusiliers’ light ‘Mechs served continuously as the point and forward recon elements of the Capellan advance, drawing sometimes inviting, Davion fire throughout the campaign.
96 - Bullard's Armored Cavalry - In 2987, Bullard's Cavalry was involved in a raid on Aosia, officially to relieve the pressure against a Davion assault on Tikonov, but actually to locate the whereabouts of a large Davion Gold reserve that Colonel Bullard had caught wind of. Moving off in the heat of Battle, Bullard's men located the Davion treasure trove guarded by elements of the Ceti Hussars. In the firefight that ensured, Bullard's troops narrowly escaped with part of the loot and returned to friendly lines ...
96 - Hapton's Hessens - ... in 2987, when they were involved in the raid against Aosia. The Hessens overran several Davion fortified positions, capturing several lances of artillery and support equipment before being turned back by superior Davion reserves.
I believe the FS world of Aosia needs to be re-added to the map ( and its ownership changed from CC to FC) as it is an important agricultural / industrial / gold reserve world where Chancellor Ilsa Liao was killed - also consider the raid of 2987.
Capellan Confederation Forces:
Trimaldi’s Secutors - Three Battalions
Kincade's Rangers - Two Battalions
Justinia’s Cuirassiers - Two Battalions
Stapleton’s Iron Hand - Three Battalions
Shepard’s Mounted Fusiliers - Two Battalions
Bullard's Armored Cavalry - One Battalion
Hapton's Hessens - Three Regiments - Three Battalions per regiment.
Versus ....
Federated Suns Forces:
Avalon Hussars - Cannot find which unit - though considering its location near Remshield - Valexa PDZ's 20th Avalon Hussars would be the probable unit (In my opinion)
elements of the Ceti Hussars - probably the 2nd Ceti Hussars RCT from Mayetta?
and at the end of the battle does the relief force arrive from Tikonov to help end the raid / invasion?
I think this conflict needs to be expanded upon,
Thoughts please ....
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (03/26/19 08:36 PM)
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Requiem
03/26/19 09:04 PM
1.158.130.13
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And then there is the actual battle upon Tikonov and its subsequent relief battles upon other worlds …
Tikonov 2987 – House Liao – The Capellan Confederation
Pg
50 – Finally, A Turnaround
….. The turning point came in 2987, when House Davion launched no less than six separate attempts between February and June to take the provincial capitol of Tikonov, one of the few remaining industrial concentrations in the Confederation. While the Chesterton Reserves battled in vain to hold their sacred world against three- and sometimes four-to-one odds, Tormax ordered the commitment of the last major concentration of Capellan reserves (including Justinia’s Cuirassiers, Shepards Mounted Fusiliers and Hampton’s Hessens) in a pre-emptive strike against the Davion stronghold of Lee, to relieve the pressure.
83
2nd Ariana Fusiliers - The 2nd Ariana Fusiliers bore the brunt of early Davion attempts to capture the Tikonov citadel between February and June of 2987.
1st Chesterton Voltigeurs – Called upon to aid in the defence of Tikonov against House Davion in June of 2987, the voltigeurs were badly mangled by Davion aerospace fighters, forcing their withdrawal for refitting soon after the critical siege had been broken.
84
2nd Chesterton Voltigeurs – Used again in defense of Tikonov between February and June 2987, the 2nd Voltigeurs fared somewhat better, the 1st and 2nd Battalions captured two Davion Marauders.
Hamilton’s Highlanders – The Highlanders arrived in time to participate in the defense of Tikonov the following year. Not content with static defense, the Highlander’s commander led them in a series of mobile operations against Davion staging areas, dealing heavy losses in personnel and materiel to the Federated Suns battle group. In the three-month period ending in June 2987, it is estimated that the Highlanders destroyed 13 Battlemechs and over 700 tons of munitions, small arms, fuel, electronics and spare parts, crippling Davion operations on the planet.
3rd Chesterton Voltigeurs – Used again in the defense of Tikonov in the 2987 attack, the 3rd Voltigeurs command staff were all killed when a midnight raid by Davion commandos penetrated outer defences and rocketed the command post. The 3rd Voltigeurs remain on station on Tikonov.
Relief of Tikonov – raids upon other worlds
82
1st Ariana Fusiliers ….. On Mirach, between February and June 2987, the regiment endured six concentrated Davion attacks, in which the unit lost over half its manpower and equipment. The 1st Ariana nonetheless gave as good as it got, all three battalion commanders earning posthumous decorations.
85 (probable typing error)
Sung’s Cuirassiers …. The Cuirassiers again proved their mettle by wrestling Mesartim from Davion in 2978 as part of an effort to relieve pressure on Tikonov.
(Question should this have read 2987?)
99
Rivaldi’s Hussars … In 2987, the Hussars were involved marginally in the Capellan raid on Shaunavon.
House Davion – The Federated Suns
90
… used the tactic of brief skirmishes and raids to harass enemy build-ups … Time and again, he demonstrated his skill in deploying his meagre forces, particularly at Lee, Rio, and Kasai ….
This battle should also be considered of importance ...
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
03/26/19 10:48 PM
1.158.130.13
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How many noticed the conflicting information concerning Ilsa Liao’s death …..
Aosia – House Liao – The Capellan Confederation , page 78 and page 77 – The Red Lancers – Under the title Prefectorate Guard – In 2828, the guard was employed as part of the disastrous attack on the Davion Industrial centre of Aosia, during which Chancellor Ilsa Liao was killed.
Then we have Page 47 (same book) – under Second Succession World – Chancelor Ilsa Liao decided to launch a strike force …. against Orbisonia …. on the fourth day of the assault Ilsa herself was killed in the final rear-guard action ….
So we need to ask ourselves which planet and action did she die?
and if in 2828 Obisonia = Aosia - then Aosia is a major Davion staging world against the CC, as it was utilized by the Davion Assault Guards.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (03/26/19 11:11 PM)
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Requiem
03/27/19 10:07 PM
1.158.130.13
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Here we have the start of a new game where you could place your forces in upon one world or multiple worlds … My version (Alt history?) of how this may have unfolded using the Cannon info gathered from above.
February 2987 - The FS invade Tikonov…..
Chesterton Reserves - 2nd and 3rd Chesterton Voltigeurs - are being besieged at the Capital City
2nd Ariana Fusiliers are being besieged at the Tikonov Citadel
Say, by the end of March - First assault completed (?)
Then Hamilton’s Highlanders arrive – rather than landing in the Capital / Citadel they land in the countryside they begin a guerrilla battle against the invaders
A unit of the FS attack force would be designated to hunt down Hamilton’s Highlanders. I would assume they were unable to stop them completely.
Say, Late February - Early March to Early June – Second, Third, Fourth and Fifth assault completed
Some-time during this period FS forces locate the command staff of the 3rd Chesterton Voltigeurs - Davion commandos penetrated outer defences and rocketed the command post killing tall of their command staff.
Say Mid-June, on the sixth and final assault ….
1st Chesterton Voltigeurs – arrive in June – however Davion aerospace fighters cause destroy many dropships / ‘Mechs as they attempt a drop unto Tikonov (last ditch relief of either the Capital or the Citadel?)
Hamilton’s Highlanders destroy the FS’s main ammunition / supply dump
June 2987
FS’s position becomes untenable - due to a lack of ammunition the FS forces withdraw from Tikonov
Minor relief assaults upon FS Worlds During this period - Initiated from March onwards(?)
The Chancellor of the Capellan Confederation launches a massive assault into the FS –FS intelligence speculates that this could be a precursor to a massive invasion (?)
FS World - Lee
Attacking Forces - Justinia’s Cuirassiers, Shepards Mounted Fusiliers and Hampton’s Hessens
Result - Unknown
FS World - Mirach
Attacking Forces - 1st Ariana Fusiliers
Result - Lost half its manpower over six battles
FS World - Mesartim
Attacking Forces - Sung’s Cuirassiers
Result - Capture the planet for the CC.
NT: Mesartim is the closest world to Tikonov – this may have been also why the FS forces withdraw from Tikonov – to become a relief force for those upon Mesartim. However with a lack of ammunition this may have been deemed unviable. Thus they arrive to assist with the evacuation only (?). Thus leading to the loss of the planet to the CC.
FS World - Shaunavon
Attacking Forces - Rivaldi’s Hussars
Result - Unknown
Major relief assault upon Aosia – a major base from which the FS strike at the CC.
Refer above for the forces involved …. Massive invasion by multiple units … objective punitive raid for the FS invading Tikonov (we can therefore assume that this is an important FS world for one reason or another)
Duration of the Invasion – four weeks – assume late June / early July 2987 onwards
First Battle for Aosia
Upon landing - Landing Site Alpa – Assume upon Aosia’s northern hemisphere
The site of all major Davion counterattacks – CC target FS stronghold (fortress).
Shepard’s Mounted Fusiliers - light ‘Mechs served continuously as the point and forward recon elements
Trimaldi’s Secutors – provide support to Shepard’s Mounted Fusiliers.
One regiment of Hapton's Hessens and Justinia’s Cuirassiers forming the Centre formation
Other two Regiments of Hapton's Hessens – each are upon one of the alternate flanks (Right and Left Flank)
One of these flanking forces is able to - overran several Davion fortified positions, capturing several lances of artillery and support equipment before being turned back by superior Davion reserves.
Stapleton’s Iron Hand – Reserve unit to plug the gaps
Bullard's Armored Cavalry – also a reserve unit
However, - They deserted their post upon learning about a hidden gold reserve (POW being interrogated?) - located theDavion gold reserve guarded by elements of the Ceti Hussars - firefight ensured - narrowly escaped with part of the loot and returned to friendly lines.
At the end of the four weeks CC forces informed (via HPG and ComStar messanger) that CC forces have broken the siege of Tikonov – ordered to retreat in good order.
Thus upon the last Battle … FS forces counter attack the retreating CC at the end of the four weeks …
the Secutors’ motorized infantry succeeded in overrunning an important Davion communications centre, seriously disrupting an important Davion communications centre, seriously disrupting the counter-attack, thus allowing time for the retreating CC forces to retreat off world in good order.
Upon landing – Landing site Beta - Aosia’s southern hemisphere
Kincade's Rangers
In a rear-area depot the Rangers capture three Davion Corsair Aerospace fighters intact,
Then proceeded upon a scorched earth policy, quick raiding, destroying vast numbers of crops and munitions stores,
Assume they were only engaged once and in small company sized battle as they withdrew with only two BattleMechs lost in four weeks of campaigning.
Thus they retreated off-world in good order upon communication with their CO in the northern hemisphere.
End of crisis …. for now ….
Thoughts anyone?
So can we now have Aosia replaced upon all maps and its Wiki updated to reflect its cannon history please
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (03/27/19 10:14 PM)
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Requiem
03/28/19 05:01 PM
1.158.130.13
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So who should invade in 2987 …. ?
Initial CC Defending forces upon Tikonov
2nd Chesterton Voltigeurs – Three Battalions
3rd Chesterton Voltigeurs – Three Battalions
2nd Ariana Fusiliers – Three Battalions
Initial Relief Force (March)
Hamilton’s Highlanders – Two Battalions
Second Relief Force (June)
1st Chesterton Voltigeurs – Three Battalions
Given Tikonov’s location FS forces from
Addicks PDZ;
Kentares IV PDZ;
Valexa PDZ;
Achemar Combat Region; and
New Avalon Combat Region
Should be considered ……
We need to exclude … for the battle upon Aosia ….
20th Avalon Hussars
2nd Ceti Hussars RCT …. and maybe one or two other units for this Battle … or did these two fend of the invasion on their own?
Thus which Elite FS Units would be sent …. On the balance of probability I would consider elements of / if not most of the following would be used upon Tikonov …. Especially when you consider the above quote of fighting two to one odds and even four to one odds (refer above)
2nd Crucis Lancers
3rd Crucis Lancers …. Wiki …. In the Fourth Succession War, the 3rd Crucis Lancers attacked Tikonov with the other Crucis Lancer RCTs
6th Crucis Lancers …. Wiki …. “In the Fourth Succession War the Sixth Crucis Lancers attacked Tikonov with the other Crucis Lancer RCTs”
8th Crucis Lancers …. Wiki …. “In the Fourth Succession War the 8th Crucis Lancers attacked Tikonov with the other Crucis Lancer RCTs”.
Deneb Light Cavalry …. Unit during their assault of Tikonov in 2834.
…. So could the Crucis Lancers they have also attacked during the Third Succession War circa …. 2987? …. In all probability yes, this could be seen as a warmup for the Fourth Succession war …November 3028 …. 41 years from 2987 … where a low ranking officer in 3028 could have become a CO of one of the Crucis Lancers and he/she could remember their past invasion when they were young (and probably straight out of the Academy)
Thoughts anyone?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
03/28/19 05:13 PM
1.158.130.13
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Frabby, do you think these notes may make / prompt someone to write a new book(s) on the topic …. Or even a Short Story Lt straight out of the academy 3rd Succession War – CO – 4th Succession War – fulfilling a promise prior to retirement from FSAF?
Edited by Requiem (03/28/19 09:35 PM)
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Frabby
03/29/19 03:33 AM
84.185.67.230
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Dunno. The Tikonov campaign and Aosia battle(s) are apparently one of the stories that are told "between the lines", a recurring concept in BattleTech.
As a story, I reckon it's not worth a retelling because the fun lies in finding the references and piecing together the larger picture, as was done in this thread.
A very similar situation is known for the otherwise unimportant and unmapped world of Thomas, which apparently saw major multi-regiment battles in 3008 and 3011. Or Lincoln, which was fought over by Davion and Liao and was ultimately abandoned completely by both sides.
(And I'm still unsure wether such "larger picture" side stories were deliberately seeded or emerged from unchecked universe building in the early days.)
Edited by Frabby (03/29/19 08:02 AM)
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Frabby
04/05/19 10:44 AM
84.185.65.247
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Ok, I added the information to the Aosia article.
However, regarding the 2828 battle, after cross-checking available information I am convinced that it is in error and that the Liao Housebook mixed up Aosia and Orbisonia. For starters, Aosia wasn't even a border system (as per a map in HB:HL) in 2822, but some 50 light-years inside the CC from the border whereas Orbisonia was in fact a FS system just across the border. Further, while the text leaves the interpretation open, in the sense of not ruling it out, that Ilsa ("Lisa") Liao led her forces against Aosia as well as the (unmentioned) Orbisonia, the book's index explicitly refers to these pages under the keywords "killed on Aosia". And we know that to be wrong - all other canonical sources specifiy that she led an ill-fated attack against Orbisonia that cost her life, while never even mentioning Aosia - which for all we know was a CC holding deep in CC space at the time. If you're really stretching things you could postulate that Ilsa's forces first fought an (unsuccessful!) four-day campaign on Aosia before heading for desaster on Orbisonia. But that's a stretch really.
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Requiem
04/05/19 05:24 PM
1.158.130.13
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Frabby, sorry but I have two points of contention to the entry as is.
First, as it was written: “Armored Cavalry specifically hunted for a large Davion gold reserve on the planet which they secured”.
Can I please request a one word addition to this … so that it reads …
Armored Cavalry specifically hunted for a large Davion gold reserve on the planet which they “partially” secured.
Second, Political Affiliation – my major contention within the article ….
Sorry, but I contend this world was NEVER held at any time by the Capellan Confederation – even when other systems around it were captured by them. The Federated Suns military were able to hold this world (thus making it an important staging ground for missions within the Confederation).
It is an anomaly of a world within the IS being a world within a neighbors’ realm that is owned / held by a rival house as a staging ground for their military. We would only see another world like it post Clan Invasion – the world of Wolcott (if I remember correctly from Black Thorns).
Please also note that this world was also an agricultural world – Kincade’s Rangers scorched earth policy of destroying crops during the invasion - so it could have been a self-sufficient world with regards to food and water. Though with the destruction of its food this may have been start of the FS withdrawal ….
Also, the issue of the gold upon the world is not fully investigated - I postulate that there was also a "secret" gold mine / smelter upon the world - and once it petered out sometime prior to 3025 was another nail in the coffin for holding the world against the Confederation. (Secret - due to the Kellie's Heroes run across the planet to steal part of the gold from a hidden repository)
However, I would contend that some-time before 3025 this forward base within the Confederation became unviable – due to economic reasons, or the FS could no longer hold it militarily due to constant raids – thus they retreated from the world.
As the world’s strategic importance was thus negated it faded from memory and was removed from the majority of all maps.
Page 77 – In 2828 - the Davion world of Aosia
Page 89 – In 2987 –Aosia was also a Davion world - attacking the Davion stronghold of Aosia.
There is no evidence that the Capellans were able to take this world from the FS until the FS withdrew sometime before 3025. Due to either unknown FS economic / military / food considerations at that time (or even possibly all).
Thankyou for your consideration,
Requiem
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (04/05/19 05:59 PM)
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Frabby
04/06/19 04:28 AM
80.187.113.47
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Like I wrote above, the 2822 map in HB:HL establishes Aosia as a CC world 50 light-years/2 jumps from the FedCom border. Conversely, it is never shown as a FS world on any map where it appears.
I therefore contend that the Liao Housebook claim about Aosia being a FS world where Ilsa Liao died in an unsuccessful assault six years later is in error; all other sources consistently name Orbisonia as that system, and a look at the map with the "border" at the time only reinforces the impression that they meant Orbisonia in 2828, not Aosia.
I don't think the staging ground idea holds water. Yes, ürominent salients exist in BT such as Tikonov or the famous Bolan Thumb; but Liao ain't bound by Clan tenets and wouldn't have tolerated a Davion holding this deep in their space. Unlike the Clans, the Liaos aren't stupid.
By 2987 it was a Davion world. Probably built up as a border fortress like Marlette.
I agree that the six regiment fracas in 2987 in which infrastructure was ravaged, crops burned and numerous Davion "fortifications" (= cities?) all over the planet were destroyed was most probably a scorched earth raid from the context that was the nail in Aosia's coffin, leading to the world vanishing from the maps. But since that is speculation, it doesn't belong in the article.
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