Requiem
04/27/19 08:47 AM
1.158.130.13
|
The tyranny of House Amaris reached its zenith when Stefan Amaris embarked upon his coup to usurp the leadership of the Star League from House Cameron. This resulted in both an internal civil war throughout the Rim Worlds Republic and the external Amaris Civil War from 2766 to 2780 with the Star League Defence Force (SLDF), under the command of Aleksandr Kerensky.
However, what if …. During the war for the Rim Worlds Republic forces loyal to Amaris, realizing that their situation has now become untenable, thus they decided to flee into the deep periphery rather than face certain defeat. This exodus from the Worlds Republic not only included their military but it also included many civilians – the remnants of Amaris’s Republic who fled certain destruction at the hands of the SLDF.
Thus it was not the remnants of the SLDF but those of House Amaris and the Rim Worlds Republic that made it finally to the Pentagon worlds, and over time established what would become to be known as the Clans.
Thus many of the darker tendencies of the Clans can be attributed to the ideology of Amaris and not that of child who wanted to destroy the dream of his father.
Thus upon their return to the inner Sphere rather than re-establishing the Star League they are attempting to establish Amaris’ empire!
So what of Kerensky and the SLDF?
The destruction caused on Terra had been immense.
There was no rightful successor for the position of First Lord.
In January 2780 General Kerensky, in his capacity as Lord Protector, transmitted a request to each House Lord to attend a Council of Lords, within Unity City upon Terra, to determine the rightful successor for the position of First Lord.
Kerensky begins to rebuild the Terran Hegemony.
Though, it would not be until early in February 2781 that all of the House Lords would arrive within Unity City upon Terra to begin discussions as to the rightful successor for the position of First Lord.
With increasing disappointment Kerensky saw that the feuding House Lords were simply unable to choose a new leader of the Star League.
As the spirit of the Star League began eroding Kerensky refused a proposal by General Aaron DeChavilier to overthrow the House Lords and assume the position of First Lord.
It was here when Aleksandr Kerensky considered his secret Operation Exodus. He discussed the issue on the 5th of October 2782 with only DeChavillier and General Lauren Hayes.
However, Lauren opposed this plan, as she believed in the Star League and thought that Kerensky was abandoning all that he fought for during the coup. - There is no record of this meeting ever taking place and what was discussed in it.
On the 10th of October 2782, the Council Lords gathered to strip Kerensky of his title of "Protector," however when Kerensky and DeChavilier did not make an appearance discreet enquirers were made as to their location, until it soon became apparent that they were missing, and no coup was in the offing.
However what did happen to him?,
General Kerensky and General DeChavilier as well as many of their senior officers from throughout the remaining SLDF were within an abandoned warehouse at a non-functioning Spaceport in the middle of the night when at 1:34 a.m. on the 10th October 2782 a laser guided air-to-surface missile struck an the abandoned warehouse.
It would take many weeks until subsequent DNA tests provided positive matches within the military DNA database that would identify General Kerensky and General DeChavilier.
Major General Lauren Hayes subsequently assumed total command of the remaining SLDF units and in addition to the entire remaining Hegemony.
However for the House Lords this situation was un-raveling quickly over the next weeks until ultimately the House Lords were forced from Terra and to return to their own realms
Shortly thereafter, the first Succession War commenced.
So not only is there a variant upon the original Clans there is also a new Great House – House Hayes and that of the Terran Hegemony.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
04/27/19 09:45 PM
66.74.60.165
|
A few things to consider.
The folding of the Rim Worlds quickly, would have given the SDLF more units to use against Amaris at home. The need for WMDs on Kerensky side may not have been needed, so how much less damage would there have been?
Also, how many of the units around Terra decided to get out when the rest started fleeing?
The forces from the Rim worlds, would not have been as advanced when they left, and probably not as numerous either. So that is something to consider when dealing with this.
Upon the return of the Rim/clan forces, they would establish the old Rim Worlds pretty easily, as the periphery there wasn't packed with forces, nor would many IS forces be sent to stop them. Even if word got to the IS leaders.
If they laid low for a few years, it is possible the Rim Worlds could have a viable manufacturing set up, that may well allow them to at least hold off the LC and DC. The FC if you allow them to join, but unless the RW pushed, it is likely they would not be taken seriously.
Now with Hayes trying to take Terra, the succession wars takes on a whole new life. Do the house lords fight the new upstart?
Do they fight each other?
Any of them persuade Hayes to join their cause, IE Davion's being named heir by Cameron, and having that be made public, instead of dying in the DC?
And if the SDLF forces start becoming the victors, does that mean a whole new history for the IS? I would think so.
|
Requiem
04/28/19 03:54 AM
1.158.130.13
|
Yes, I agree with your assessment in that with a reduced Rim Worlds Republic campaign the SLDF would have more forces to use against Amaris within the Hegemony, and as a consequence this may reduce the overall collateral damage.
This is turn will ensure their ability to survive the onslaught that is to come with the Succession Wars.
As for some of Amaris’ forces fleeing to join their compatriots within the Deep Periphery could be a possibility, however I doubt many would be able to leave as Amaris would have Political Officers inserted with his forces (the Russian Commissars) and one false move their commanders would be replaced permanently – or if the revolt was unit wide a couple of tactical nuclear weapons upon a few of his own forces would ensure that all of his remaining forces understood the repercussions of desertion.
So, no more than a handful of units were able to getaway. As for those that got away – I would assume they would travel within the DC rather than Lyran space as they would receive it to be less hostile.
And as for linking up with the fleeing forces within the Deep Periphery – a remote chance at best.
Thus there could be a lost Amaris colony or the colony they established just disappeared due to unknown circumstances – so maybe sometime in the far future they are found (alive or deceased).
As for the numbers of people that fled the Rim Worlds – the numbers that went on the Kerensky’s exodus could be the same with the same number of Jumpships and Dropships – However, the number of warships and the number of military personnel would be severely reduced, and the number of civilian personnel should be considered to be increased.
Upon the “Rim Worlds” Clan return to the IS I would assume that their first objective would be all former “Rim Worlds” Bases from the age of Amaris. This then would be utilized as staging grounds for all future invasions into the IS (including re-supply bases) and I agree with your assessment they could even re-establish manufacturing facilities with the Deep Periphery.
As for Hayes taking over the Hegemony …
First I would assume all the Great Houses would have agreed to make the Terran System an independent state under the control of ComStar, similar to the Vatican being an independent state..
Though with the Navy now remaining at full strength (and an additional 400 plus warships and numerous Jumpships to transport Her forces through out the Hegemony that did not leave with Kerensky) I doubt there is anything the other Great Houses can do but accept that she has taken the Hegemony and she has established her own Great House, thus they would have to treat her as such.
Thus with the start of the First Succession War her forces would also become a target – and whereas the other houses only have two main combatants, Hayes’ Hegemony is fighting against all the other Houses. Though were the other states have large borders to defend, Hayes has a smaller border from which to defend and attack from. Thus she can concentrate her forces when necessary – thus making her forces formidable against the other Great Houses.
As for declaring a successor to the Camerons’ in establishing a new Star League – No, I do not think so … their families are responsible for the fall (could not come to an agreement), so therefore they cannot be trusted with governing a new Star League, an alternative Star League government must be found.
As for the SLDF becoming the victors of the Succession Wars – unfortunately their military numbers as well as the necessity of fighting upon all of their borders at all times ensured they were only ever able to achieve a modicum of success similar to that of their neighbors the other Great Houses.
So, I would doubt there would be a great deal of discrepancy within the history of the IS with the addition of this new Great House.
Thus, we have six great houses rather than five from which to start the game and in you believe that the Rim Worlds were able to survive there is also an additional Periphery State.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
Wick
04/29/19 09:27 PM
45.43.104.179
|
Fascinating ideas.
Rim Worlds troops fleeing into the deep periphery is actually already canon. Not quite to the Pentagon Worlds, but at least to the Hanseatic League (which is well over halfway there), per fluff for the Vulcan aerospace fighter. Its not a large leap of faith to assume some of those fleeing troops, whether in the Hanseatic League or elsewhere would have hoped for a chance of revenge, but over time just never got the chance and died off. Even if Amaris supporters had gotten away and formed "the Clans", they would be bereft of much of the technological superiority of the Royal divisions that helped make Clan weaponry superior to Inner Sphere tech, and possibly without the warrior culture that helped refine them into a lethal fighting force. They could reconquer parts of, and maybe even the whole of the former Rim Worlds Republic because no one really cared about that part of space except pirates, but marching deep into House space or all the way to Terra as the canon Clans had intended probably isn't feasible without some serious explanations as to how they could become so much better than the defending Lyran, Combine, and Rasalhaguian troops. (Nearly 30 years later, I still have trouble believing these three could lose so much, so quickly, to so few, even with the technological, training, and experience disadvantages, as they possessed a gigantic numerical advantage over the Clans and no compulsion against "dezgra" tactics.)
Hayes taking control of Terra and the Hegemony is the more interesting thought experiment. It doesn't fit her profile, since she submitted to Jerome Blake as leader of Terra rather than the other way around, but assuming events played out differently in your universe and she did come to power, Blake would have likely followed her instead, putting her in control of the HPG network, along with at least the 400-something regiments worth of mixed troops that remained of the Royal divisions, plus however many regular army troops that may have flocked to her banner. I'm skeptical that this would have been sufficient to garrison the entire Terran Hegemony against encroaching House militaries, but she could have certainly taken a core of the important worlds, something between the old borders and Prefecture X from the Republic times in size, and with the help of core Hegemony industry and HPG blackouts, she could have easily reconquered all the former Terran Hegemony worlds by 2800, perhaps even ceding a few less important worlds to potential allies (like John Davion) to help cement her authority. The end result is much the same as your story though, with her becoming effective ruler over a slightly smaller Terran Hegemony to start, but still with the authority and title (albeit still disputed) of First Lord. Minoru Kurita had long since wished to pull out of the Star League and would likely still do so in this version of events so the Star League still falters, at least for a while. The First Succession War is likely the only Succession War, mostly fought between the Draconis Combine and a Hegemony-FedSuns alliance (for which the HPG blackouts ruin the Combine military effort and they lose a good deal of the Benjamin district to the Hegemony and instead of the Kuritans advancing towards the Davion capital its the other way around before they sue for peace.) Lyrans take advantage of the situation and conquer some Kuritan border worlds but are mostly fighting with the FWL, who in turn are also fighting with the Capellans over the scraps, occasionally nuking each other's border worlds, but not on the scale of the canon history. Those three nations are mostly just trying to avoid becoming the next target of an interdiction-supported Hegemony-FedSuns war machine, ultimately having to accept Hayes as First Lord over a renewed Star League after the Combine is pacified. What happens later though is anyone's guess, but I'd suspect that by the 31st century, the political and technological situation is much as it would have been in 2782, though with the Draconis Combine and Capellan Confederation swapping places politically (i.e., a much stronger Capellan state thanks to retaining the many border worlds lost to FWL and FedSuns, and a weaker Combine following the events of the Succession War and possible insurrection or outright independence of the Rasalhague district much earlier than 3034.) With no exodus and a willing SLDF commander, I don't see any possibility of the Hegemony falling to the other five Houses or a neutral Terra-only Hegemony controlled by a independent ComStar - the exodus created the power vacuum to allow these other events to occur. We do have six Great Houses though (Hayes, Davion, Liao, Marik, Steiner, and Kurita) and while its tempting to think of a reconstituted Rim Worlds nation comprising a seventh, I think it would more likely come from the Rasalhague nation in this scenario.
|
ghostrider
04/30/19 12:46 AM
66.74.60.165
|
How much different would the first war be, if the League did retain important worlds that the house powers relied upon?
Hespherus comes to mind. What would the LC have done, if they didn't own that important world? Or it was nuked beyond being habitable?
It is being said the house would attack the SDLF just because, but would the FS and LC do so, if the SDLF hit Kurita for their use of nukes to destroy Kenteres?
And with the point of the HPG's being in a 'hostiles' possession. How does that change how the war went?
And what would happen if neither Hayes or Blake stepped down from power? Would that cause a civil war between them? Or have them start paying back some house lords for insults and such from the past?"
|
Requiem
04/30/19 12:50 AM
1.158.130.13
|
I agree initially they would be bereft of much of the technological superiority of the Royal divisions, however, what if ….
It does not take a genius to understand the military superiority of the SLDF in comparison to that of the Rim Worlds. Even a fraction of the SLDF could be considered difficult to overcome. So what if Amaris’ loyal governor was executed within the early days of the war and was replaced with a realist who understood Kerensky and that he would not stop at just capturing the Rim Worlds – he would want its ultimate destruction. With no choice but flee this unknown general spent the next couple of years holding the SLDF at bay whilst forming his expeditionary fleet – including all the technology and the technical personal who agreed to accompany him – this would include many repair ships / cruise liners for personnel and large transports containing everything a colony would need to survive and thrive – even space stations may be transported. Then with the final battle about to commence and he and his followers just disappeared into the Deep Periphery – no battle just an empty planet with no answers as to where he has gone.
Over time they become a legend – the same as the Wolverines are now.
However in deep space, over time they were able to create a “clone” army and the Clan weaponry superior to Inner Sphere tech to obtain their vengeance upon those that forced them to flee the SLDF and the Great Hoses that did nothing but watch their destruction.
<On a side note here – I would give the clans (at the time of the initial invasion a couple of omnis at 150 tons plus (or how about even a 250 ton variant?) – and perhaps aerospace fighters (no, bombers!) at this level as well – as it was the Rim Worlds who were tinkering with this idea at the time of their expulsion from the IS>
I also agree with you that the original story as to the invasion and the blitzkrieg nature of its advance is a big bit unbelievable. Thus nurturing their hate for the IS the “Clans” are almost all crusaders with very few “wardens” – and taking the iron born to a more logical conclusion where a sibko training is more in line with that of the Inner Sphere Academy – mass graduates with a high degree of propensity towards war this army. Thus they attack with all their available forces <this will not be the same as the total Canon Clan’s forces it will be something less – though the forces that do attack will be numerically superior to that of the canon invasion numbers, thus making it a little more believable – as to conquest time line I agree this needs to be increased to something more believable>
As for Hayes’ personality, it is only when Kerensky leaves her no option does she agree to defend the new ComStar. If she found out about Kerensky’s plan in advance and was just a smidge more ruthless then yes I could see her deciding that Kerensky was a traitor to his sworn oath of defending the Star League and she would kill him off. Thus preserving all the SLDF and that of the lone remaining part of the Star League (the Hegemony) against those forces that sought to destroy it.
In this case Blake would attempt to be independent by declaring Terra a separate entity to which all the Great Houses and even Hayes would agree.
Yes her initial forces may not be enough to hold the entire original Hegemony but if they reduce the size by two to five systems around the entire rim of the Hegemony then I would say yes they could survive – they now have a smaller number of worlds to hold with a reduced supply chain and overlapping fields of units to hold onto the worlds they have. Over time they can rebuild and retake what was lost.
As for the remainder of the story, I might keep it similar to the cannon or I might change it – it is up to whom-ever wants to create their own universe as to how their universe progresses …
I find the idea of a sixth Great House and the remnant of the Rim Worlds Periphery and the Clans as former Amaris (Rim Worlds) forces an interesting concept to build upon.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (04/30/19 05:02 AM)
|
Requiem
04/30/19 01:57 AM
1.158.130.13
|
The First Succession War (within my Alt. Universe) is vastly different to that of the canon – first I have ensured the idea of total war (the ability to include WMDs and Orbital bombardments) is no longer viable as ComStar has made it known that they will interdict any house found guilty of war crimes. Also the strategy used by the all the Great Houses will change as they have realized that to conquer the Inner Sphere we are looking at another 100 years war (if everything goes to plan that is) – every Great House is attempting to gain control over their enemies technological infrastructure, that is then used to bolster their own forces military industrial complex (they are not in the business of destroying these key infrastructure facilities as they need them to support their own war effort) – then move on to the next target world.
They are also assaulting Command and Control; Academies; Enemy House Units – Bases – Warships etc – ie. legitimate military targets only.
Hesperus – as for the LC – they will do what they have always done – protect this important world against everyone. Or is taken from them, they will have to launch a new invasion.
In the early stages of the war it comes down to military intelligence – if they believe there is a weakness they will attack if not they will hold back. Remember, It all comes down to who holds Terra at the end of all of the wars will be the First Lord.
As for the Kentares massacre – yes it does happen and yet not to the degree in the original canon story – the new Coordinator, Jinjiro, will have to slit his belly in order to remove the interdiction once it becomes common knowledge …. and due to the many reversals to the DCMS is suffering due to the ongoing interdiction.
The HPGs are not in hostile hands – they are independent of any state – thus it does not change how the war went.
As for Hayes, she became the First “Lord Protector of the Star League”, a new Great House with her family in charge of the former Hegemony and the SLDF.
Blake – same as canon – ComStar.
As for stepping down …. only in death does your service end! So, no civil war just a normal transference of power from one leader to the next.
As for insults – no we just have a history similar to that of cannon up until the fall of the CC during the war of ’39 – then onto the “Clans” invasion etc. as per my ongoing history of the inner sphere.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
05/01/19 05:44 PM
66.74.60.165
|
Problems with only having a few systems around Terra for the first war. The houses would definitely use nukes and such against them, while framing their enemy. No matter what, the SDLF would not have the resources to keep together. Food, ores and even recruits would not be enough to sustain them with only a few systems, even a dozen.
The point with Hespherus is the fact the Star League built the factories there, so they should try to retain them with the Amaris war being over with. With that being said, it stand to reason, the LC would be hurting for their heavy and assault mechs that come from there.
Does that mean they change their strategy? Having to rely on the smaller mechs to do anything would force that to happen.
The point of the 'hostile' HPG system stems from the fact the SDLF would be in control over them. As they would not be friendly with any of the house, so to speak, when the 1st war starts. They may well be at war with each other. Worlds in the Hemegany area comes to mind. To secure them, the houses would have to attack the League. And just abandoning those worlds to the houses would violate the whole reason the SDLF stayed in the IS, or so the earlier posts here say.
I don't know why holding Terra would make someone the first lord. Technically, Comstar/SDLF would do so in the alt, unless they were destroyed. So one of the houses could well own 2/3rd or more of the rest of the IS, but not Terra. How would that work?
As for insults – no we just have a history similar to that of cannon up until the fall of the CC during the war of ’39
There would be very little, if anything similar if the SDLF stayed in the IS. Not counting the Rim Worlds, but the SDLF would have changed history just by holding onto the Hemegany worlds for even a short while to evacuate. Which they would not do, as they were sworn to protect them.
I would think the SDLF would go to war against the DC with the Kenteres massacre. If they didn't, then they would have a major issue on their hands. Who would believe they were trying to protect all, and let that happen?
|
Requiem
05/01/19 08:42 PM
1.158.130.13
|
Remember, in my Alt Universe there are no WMDs or Orbital bombardments as they are risking a ComStar Interdiction …. also …. I have changed the overall strategy of the First Succession War from the strategy of becoming the First Lord as quick as possible by any means necessary (hence the use of WMDs). To that of capturing your enemy’s military industrial complex (intact) whist destroying all viable “military targets”, they are also being realistic in that the war could take 100 years or more before a new First Lord is determined due to the scope of the wars to achieve this overall goal.
Thus the First Succession war is NOT a “total war” setting – the rules of war will be adhered to at all times.
<On a side note – in the canon story of the First Succession War WMDs etc. were utilized to achieve the final victory. However, even with their use no one Great House was able to come even close to becoming the First Lord – The strategy of utilizing these weapon systems just, unequivocally, initiated the M.A.D. scenario …. It was completely and utterly tactically/strategically useless overall in that they did not achieve the overall goal.>
As for the size of the initial SLDF Hegemony, it is more than a dozen worlds – it would be close on 50 to 80 worlds – reduced from say (approx.) 100 worlds.
Thus with Kerensky’s exodus warships alone (400 warships) every system has a minimum of 5-8 warships and that is not even considering the SLDF Mech Units – their ability to hold these worlds using only conventional weapons is achievable as the other Houses must defend large borders and you would need to concentrate many Division Units (approx. 6 RCTs in 3025 standards) to try and crack the Hegemony – thus you would need to reduce your forces on one border to fight the Hegemony, and thus inviting an attack! – so what would your priorities be as a House Lord one of the other Great Houses or the remnants of the SLDF?
Thus in my opinion they will be able to survive and grab a couple of House worlds from every Great House by the end of the First Succession War.
As for Hesperus – yes the star League did create it – and yes you would assume the SLDF did utilize it through the Amaris campaign – However, by the end of the Amaris Campaign would the LCAF invade and capture an under garrisoned facility?, as the majority of the original security forces are now upon the front lines battling Amaris’ remaining forces is the true question.
Remember, the Lyrans have more than one world producing ‘Mechs, so no I would not believe they would change their overall strategy – in all probability given the change of tactics within my Alt. Universe the Lyrans should have a greater access to more Medium and Light ‘Mechs throughout the succession wars than that of the original canon story.
As stated before the HPGs are controlled by Blake and his ComStar they are NOT controlled by the SLDF or any of the Great Houses – all Houses and the SLDF realise that this is the best course of action otherwise they risk the risk of destroying the HPG grid.
<If anyone wanted to remove ComStar from the Game then each Great House would have its own variant of ComStar – that would then be a government department within their vast government’s bureaucracy who control and run their part of the grid and train people to operate the system.>
As for the Hegemony reducing its size – you must be a realist / pragmatist – you cannot re-establish the Star League if the SLDF does not exist. So what is achievable? What can you defend with any degree of security? What can you rebuild from and then move out from there over many years of war.
As for holding Terra - it is a political statement – as Terra is the cradle of humanity / the seat of all human development / the centre of all politics – at the end of the war the new First Lord must be crowned upon Terra to be considered the legitimate First Lord and they must have control over all the Great Houses to be considered to be considered the legitimate First Lord.
Just holding a majority of the worlds could in no way be considered that you are the First Lord – you are just the Front Runner to becoming the First Lord.
Being accurate the addition of the Hegemony to the Game does change the game’s history, however, it does not change the overall tone of the game – invade conquer worlds / defend worlds from invasions – alliances – manoeuvring to achieve the title of First Lord! This is what I was attempting to say previously.
Yes, I agree, the SLDF would attack the DC due to the Kentares massacre whilst the interdiction is in place.
In retribution for this barbaric act they may even launch a deep strike mission upon the DC Capitol World …. as a retaliatory raid, and whilst there whom could they take as a “prisoner of war” (hostage) and return to the Hegemony with – the Coordinators family members etc.?
<on a side note, yet again – I have thought about the reason Kerensky was leaving the Inner Sphere in his exodus plan – rather than his plan was to save a small part of the Star League due to the impending Nuclear Holocaust (as it has now been made near but impossible) – Kerensky was going to establish a task force that would go into the Deep Periphery for the sole task of hunting down and destroying the remaining Amaris forces that fled from the Rim Worlds Republic during the initial battles of the war – However, Hayes objected as in her opinion if he took the majority of the SLDF with him by the time he returned there would be no SLDF within the IS – they would all be destroyed by the Great Houses and the Hegemony would also be conquered – so in order to preserve the remaining IS (The Hegemony) and the SLDF she had him (and his supporters) killed, she then blamed the Great Houses for this act, and she then took command of the SLDF and became the first Lord Protector over the Hegemony.>
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
05/02/19 12:16 AM
66.74.60.165
|
I would suggest seeing if the wiki map of the Terran Hegemony is the same one you are looking at.
If it is, then there is a huge difference to start from 2764.
Dieron, the DC prefecture capital was owned by the Hegemony. Though it looks like Hesperus wasn't.
There are more then a few worlds that were mech production planets in the 3025 era, that may yet have stopped a lot of things from happening.
Quentin, Al-Nair, as well as a few other world that built mechs were Hegemony worlds. Quentin and Al-Nair were Atlas producing worlds. A good chunk of FS near Terra was controlled by the League at this time. Yes, it is very possible they pulled back during the Amaris war.
And without the stone age WMDs, tech in the IS would be higher then what it is in 3025 in the canon. I seriously doubt the IS would be anywhere close to canon, even after the 1st war, much less in the 3025's for the alt. The whole FC probably would never have existed, given the issues of no direct contact with each other. So to do this, the later events of the alt, would or maybe, should, never come about. But this is just an opinion.
|
Requiem
05/02/19 04:31 AM
1.158.130.13
|
Sorry No, I am starting off with my own Terran Hegemony where it is a little bit different from than that of the canon’s map – I just want my own individual realm.
Both Dieron and Hesperus will start off within the DC and the LC respectively – if the Hegemony is able to take them in the future that is something I would like to run with units on both sides.
I hope to bring back all of the ‘Mech production planets – and by 3025 there will be a vast difference between mine and that of the Canon universe – in mine the technological level shall be far superior. By 3025 I hope to have omni’s / power infantry to be the norm for elite House units. Warships will still be operational within the IS …so yes, the technological level will be nowhere near that of the canon history.
And by 3055, after 5 years of war with the Clans I would like to re-introduce super-heavies etc to all of the Great Houses fighting my new “Amaris” Clans.
So I hope to use the canon history as a guide only and not to be limited or constrained by it in any way.
For me pulling back just makes sense – reduce the number of worlds held – increase the ability to respond with “Mech units – increase the number of warships protecting key worlds and hold the ground, step up and never make take a backward step and when the Hegemony sees a chance to take a key system – take it and create a new defending unit for that world – military policy defence first followed by a planetary assault and fortification program.
As for the issue of the Federated Commonwealth – I still believe that an amalgamation of these two realms is still a possibility –they will just need to go through the the edge of the Hegemony and the Capellan and League space when establishing a corridor between the two realms, and who knows they may even be able to take the world of Marik.
The possibilities of starting again from the Amaris War onwards has many new possibilities, and given that it doesn’t look like a new game book (of any worth) is going to be produced any time soon you have to create your own universe and your own game and a history to go with it and then go from there ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
05/02/19 12:52 PM
66.74.60.165
|
I agree that starting out from the League era will create a whole slew of possibilities. Some of it should fix issues that make little to no sense, but be careful about making your own.
The FC is not likely to evolve, as Prince Ian Davion is not likely to be on Mallory's World for that fateful day. And with that, Morgan Kell should not gain his stealth ability.
Another big reason why having anything canon will create logic hole and worse, is the fact that the military industries were not barely producing anything. There won't be this having 2 battalions trying to cover a single star system with 5 working worlds.
And that is another issue that would need some thought. Mercs.
The rise of Mercs came from units leaving military service, and the need to increase force sizes quickly. But given the new perameters, would mercs be as big of a factor in the new time line? It is more likely the houses would take back stolen hardware, and the military producers are less likely to even sell to anyone but the house they are working in/for.
So that would limit mercs ability to do much.
An added thought to this. Who would be selling munitions to mercs anyways? The periphery might, but getting the supplies to the buyer is very unlikely.
This also adds to the question of using enemy units when captured. Unless you make the parts yourself, you don't have any way, other then salvage to keep up on those units. Sales across the border is highly unlikely. And even then, would you risk being called an enemy conspirator by using the enemy's unit? National pride idea here. Granted, some units bite, and soldiers would be very demoralized to be stuck in them.
|
Requiem
05/02/19 08:07 PM
1.158.130.13
|
I agree with you entirely, care must be taken to ensure that history makes sense. If I believe I am straying I will post on Sarna for comment.
As for Morgan Kell – he and the Hounds are mercenaries, so I do not see why I cannot transport him into the FS with Ian - though I may need to change the world from Mallory’s World to something else or change the enemy from DC to SLDF? – as for his stealth ability do we need a new forum to discuss this again and why it was taken out of the game?
Yes, in the canon universe the military industrial complexes’ IS production was severely reduced. A point in my universe I want to rectify in mine – thus the cost and availability of spare parts will also become a more manageable situation and the overall cost of new ‘Mech will also reduce (say a 25% reduction in price ?? by 3025).
For me by 3025 I believe that each house will only have a 50% increase in the number of units available as to that of the canon – due to economic constraints – with technology in abundance social services – schools / Universities / Police / Hospitals /Fire Brigades – world environmental systems, establishing a more live-able worlds – More cruise liners as more people go off world for holiday – more holiday and agriculture / horticulture worlds etc need to be paid for by each world’s Duke / or the state.
Plus I would also like to see each world with a small Home Guard – at a minimum, one combined arms battalion / regiment depending upon the wealth of each world in addition all important worlds will now have security naval lasers in orbit and maybe even a space station for a squadron or two of aerospace fighters plus a dedicated Naval warship(s) force. Etc. Etc.
Independent Security Forces – Mercenaries – they are now just another viable business entity throughout the universe, thus when people retire / leave the military they can still establish a mercenary unit. Even in my universe the nobility fears will ensure that there is a market for them – no matter how many units some nobles have on their worlds they will always want more – and corporations will want them for security / industrial sabotage of their competitors – plausible deniability raids by the state upon their enemy state. Etc.
So if you “acquire” ‘Mechs from one realm and you then seek work in another, no harm there, we can find work for you somewhere in this new realm. However, you just need to watch your back as a raiding force may be coming for you get revenge for you “illegal acquisition” of military products – especially if you are running form either the CC or DC.
As for the military industrial complexes selling to mercenaries – Lyran not a problem / others may have restrictions in that in my Alt. Universe by 3025 I would like to see Omnis / power armor is introduced – advanced equipment like this there will be laws to ensure mercenaries do not gain access to these in addition some of the more advanced weapons systems may also be restricted access / availability (until they become common place) it would be a realm by realm decision as to their individual laws. However some of old designs such as those from pre and post Star League era ‘Mechs may be available to Mercs – case by case decision – Your Mercenary Rep. will just need to go to the Military Industrial Complexes Con. That is held on each capitol world to showcase their new products to see what new products they can purchase.
Though there will be always be a secondary market and if you have enough money you could go to the Black Market and see what you can get.
So, when you compare a mercenary unit to a front line House unit – there will be a discrepancy, however I believe this is a correct decision (you wouldn’t believe anyone could have access to what the regular military have, but those designated for security forces would be available) - though when you compare what a mercenary has and what a local noble has in his/her security force you will have a parity of forces / technology.
Mercenary Munitions – purchasing standard munitions would be acceptable through your employer and if you have a licence – otherwise black market munitions only - and the availability of non-standard munitions would be illegal, unless you can find it on the Black Market as these would be for front-line military units only.
Captured enemy weapon systems – unless your house unit has the ability to manufacture spare parts for this machine it will not be integrated into the house units military, it will however either end up at a research facility to determine any new secrets it may hold or if it was of an older design it will be put up on the secondary market for re-sale.
Thus each House will have their own units that they produce and use solely for their military and yes sale across the border will be highly restricted – though if you find a good smuggler / black market who knows what you might be able to achieve.
I will put this notes in also
– say a house military pilot / unit captures an enemy weapon system and it is subsequently put up for sale on the secondary market – the capturing pilot / unit may receive a percentage of the sale price as a reward (say 25%) – thought this will be a House by House decision.
- also, I would like to have a thriving underground Black Market and Organized Crime Families throughout the Inner Sphere – thus if you have the right contacts (and if your game referee agrees) – and you have the money - then I would say yes, you could get “almost” anything – Though some ‘Mechs / Fighters and weapons will, however, be unable to be purchased on the Black Market no matter how much money you have – they are for the exclusive use of each Houses front line military units you just need to be realistic about what you can and can’t get access to.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
Requiem
05/02/19 08:13 PM
1.158.130.13
|
On a secondary though – by 3070 to 3080 I would like to see the introduction of WOB weapon systems to the IS front line units.
As for the mech-warrior implants – they will be seen to be introduced upon Solaris for some of stables pilots at about the same time.
I will leave it up to each House (gamer) if they would allow their front-line pilots to undergo the operation for this – or if their mercenaries have the money and the contacts to also receive this operation.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
Requiem
05/03/19 01:04 AM
1.158.130.13
|
So what would be the first “ongoing” mission of the Hegemony ‘s (Hays) SLDF – Operation Reciprocity.
Mission Parameters – Throughout the Inner Sphere and the Periphery hidden SLDF resupply bunkers were established.
As the Hegemony is to be regarrisoned with remaining SLDFs BattleMech Units it was decided that these bunkers contents should be immediately repatriated into the SLDF. Thus starting with the most important of these bunkers a limited SLDF detachment will progress through hidden jump-points to their objective world. There they are to retrieve the contents and return in the strictest of secrecy.
Thus over many years these SLDF detachments will prowl through the Inner Sphere and the Periphery until every bunker has been identified – searched thoroughly – and repatriated back into the Hegemony.
And his may still be occurring whist the First Succession War is raging all around them – makes for a unique scenario especially if two of the Houses are engaged in a battle and the SLDF need to slip in and out with neither side knowing they were even there due to the proximity of the battle to the bunker – that is the chance the bunker is found by one or both of the combatants is high, thus leaving the SLDF unit little choice but to retrieve the contents.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
Wick
05/10/19 07:53 PM
45.43.104.179
|
I think that with this increased availability of military hardware, and a likely continuation of the SLDF-era policy that pilots can purchase their 'mechs and fighters upon retirement (something the house militaries stopped to avoid further material loss), I think you're spot on that there will be at least as many mercs in your scenario as before, and perhaps more. However, they're likely to be smaller, more lance and company sized units, with the largest generally being battalion-sized - fewer than canon would be regiment sized or larger, simply because a lot of these were borne from the ashes of former SLDF units. Smaller sized units would translate into more garrison duty type assignments (exactly as you've described) and less planetary assaults and raids, aside from "deniable plausibility" scenarios. The major warfare is left to house militaries who pass along minor duties to the mercs.
I think its overly generous to let the THAF keep 75 or 80 worlds out of 100 after the Amaris Empire falls. The THAF militias were absolutely devastated by the Empire forces and there's no way they have the manpower or military might to hold back the wolves at the gate. The remaining SLDF Royal divisions could certainly devolve into regular THAF units and assist in the garrisoning effort, but that's not their forte. Canon already points to house regiments garrisoning Hegemony worlds as the SLDF pushed Amaris forces back toward Terra. And absent the Exodus, a lot of the regular SLDF army units stationed within Hegemony borders may be more loyal to the houses than the Hegemony, thus adding their military might to the houses. If you've got house or house-loyal regular army troops sitting on a world for say, 8-10 years, and no one there to really challenge them for it, are the great houses really going to give them up easily? I think you'll still have planets like Towne simply claimed without a fight. And the planets sitting on the borders that possess significant technology bases (like the aforementioned Al Nair near Combine space or Connaught near FWL space) simply aren't going to be returned without major concessions or a military campaign that the Hegemony isn't ready to wage. This is why I based my assumption that the Hegemony must settle for less at first, and regain their footing before reclaiming those worlds later. I was thinking more like 30-40 worlds at maximum. Blake came to the same conclusion: that restoring the entire Hegemony borders was a pipe dream, and was going to try to setup an even smaller mini-Hegemony of 10 or so worlds, and ultimately he had to settle for just Terra alone. (He had far less to work with than a non-Exodus Hegemony would though.)
I like the idea of Hegemony/SLDF units persuing secret bunkers and reclaiming their war material from them, once they've got the new Hegemony borders settled. This is exactly what ComStar did, once they had Terra under control, and canon is flush with stories of units seeking or discovering forgotten SLDF facilities.
Very different makeup of Lyran forces should the Hegemony take Hesperus II. Besides what they build before its taken from them, this strips the Lyrans of their Atlases and Zeuses, and further denies them ability to refit Stalkers and Banshees at Defiance. This is why the FWL made so many attempts to destroy the factory - its easily the LCAF's favored toychest. Instead of being Assault-heavy, the LCAF becomes very Assault-weak by mid-29th century. They had a hard enough time against the League and Dracs in the canon first two Succession Wars for being ill equipped for a protracted wartime footing, and if their lone advantage is removed they could be very badly humiliated in your universe. (The FWL should easily be able to both retain and expand the Bolan Thumb and the DCMS could be on Tamar's doorstep.)
|
Requiem
05/11/19 01:13 AM
1.158.130.13
|
Great read Wick, thanks ….
Yes I agree, as we have more smaller Mercenary units we also now have more specialised units in that the majority will still be active garrison units, there will also be many smaller specialised raiding units for House Military, but there will also be more “larger” corporations that now have their own security ‘Mech forces.
Though I disagree that the SLDF would fragment initially – I envision that with the Murder of Kerensky – now pinned on an unknown unit from one of the Great Houses –would be a catalyst to forming their own realm upon the ashes of the Hegemony, with the aim of preserving the ideals of the Star League. (A desire for revenge will initially hold them together)
As for holding back the wolves at the gate I envision that post Amaris War the SLDF comes out better than anticipated – the number of warships alone are in the 400 to 600 range – thus with a start of only 80 worlds their ability to hold back the wolves is achievable.
As for allowing the House units into your rear whilst the the Amaris War is raging to take control of the worlds you have liberated – I believe the SLDF and Kerensky will make it clear to them that they are to “Keep off the grass” as it were. They still need him and the SLDF if there is to be a potential régime change, so politically softly softly until you don’t need him – then and only then will it be open season upon the SLDF and any world their hold. So no I cannot envision a mini Hegemony of only 10 worlds it must be more significant than this – the least I would go down to is 50 to 60 worlds and from there they will attempt to rebuild and expand in any direction when necessary.
As for Hesperus II – I believe the Lyrans would take this world from the SLDF as soon as they can – I also believe that the Lyrans would realize that putting the majority of your Assault ‘Mech production on one wold was a bad idea – thus they would establish multiple new production sites upon multiple different worlds by recreating identical production lines - I also believe that if the Lyrans decrease the security forces upon this world either the FWLM or the SLDF will pounce on (that is if their intelligence notices that this has occurred) – also this could lead to a three way battle for the World.
The Lyrans also have access to many additional ‘Mech production facilities in my universe – have a look at the canon lost worlds due to WMD bombardment – as these would still be live-able worlds in my universe so no I doubt the Lyrans could be humiliated. I believe they would have a more robust military form all the different classes of ‘Mechs.
So, unfortunately before you can start you need to go through all the lost / abandoned worlds and put many of them back.
For the Federated Suns this means there is Avalon and New Avalon etc. etc.
My universe also means that you need to look at the SLDF uniforms – aerospace pilot sensors for their fighters, the introduction of mechs above 100 tons is earlier that considered, the introduction of stealth infanty power armour is introduced earlier, the introduction of omni mechs to the IS military also must be considered when introduced by the SLDF at about the same time they were introduced by the canon Clan’s history. Thus things start to get complicated quickly.
But by 3025 we have the complete reverse in technology – from next to nil to that of a very highly advanced (technologically) society.
In my opinion once you have worked everything out it would make for a great game.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
Wick
05/14/19 07:51 PM
45.43.104.179
|
Kerensky had about 2 years to enforce a "get off the grass" policy using the SLDF to evict foreign troops from border worlds, and didn't - he really just didn't have the military strength or desire.
Let's argue strength first. You're saying the Hegemony/Star League-loyal portion of the SLDF may have been enough to defend it, which on the surface is correct, but you're not taking into account the troops more loyal to their home nation. The SLDF is composed roughly 1/6th from each of the six nations, so for every regiment or Warship the Hegemony keeps of the former SLDF, each House gets the same (and its probably worse for the THAF, because their front-line forces, reserves, and military industry was by far the most damaged during the coup.) Your plot point that Kerensky's murder galvanizes the troops behind Hayes might work to keep the SLDF together and avoid defections, but canon makes it clear the highly popular Kerensky could only retain 80% loyalty of the troops (and none of the House lords). Hayes is certainly a less popular figure, so if we grant her say 50% retainment, that would still mean huge defections to the House armies, and tough times for the Terran Hegemony in the early phases of the war.
Now desire. The House armies were there, and clearly weren't moving until forced off militarily. The SLDF just fought a 13 year war, and other than the Royal troops and few non-Royals in regular army units, there probably wasn't much initiative to keep going to war to reclaim those worlds for a Terran Hegemony, which by this point the other House Lords considered leaderless and unworthy of their support or protection. I think the 80% of the SLDF that followed Kerensky on the Exodus is because of HIS popularity, not that of the Star League or its ideals. Hayes could be undisputed leader of the SLDF, but its an SLDF that recently lost its popular leader and is tired of war. I think her ability to keep 50% of the SLDF troops under her banner is a fair number. (That translates to roughly every Terran Hegemony national, and 60% of the others. A 40% defection rate of the non-Hegemony troops seems completely legitimate.)
Agree that Lyrans would, at the very least, take the blueprints and specs for Hesperus II designs back to Tharkad or other manufacturing worlds and duplicate the units there. Maybe this is what they did, but the ravages of the early First Succession War and loss of ability to build new factories (especially for assault-class 'mechs) prevented them. So in your alternate history, they could still have the heavy-assault mindset they always had without penalty. Keep in mind that this trick would be pulled by other states as well. Alot of the units that die off or become rare in a particular state may be quite popular instead, possibly replacing another unit. Off the top of my head I can think of Corsairs in Marik space replacing Stingrays. Black Knights all over the FWLM and Exterminators popular in the CCAF. Flashman 8Ks everywhere. Some designs that were very late Star League or early Succession War might never have achieved the popularity they did thanks to the Lostech situation (Jenner in DCMS and Valkyrie in AFFS perhaps replaced with SLDF-era designs. They certainly exist but surely aren't as popular.) And all the Level 1 refits to keep Level 2 units operational following loss of technology are simply erased from history and you'd have new Level 2 refits in their place (ie, some of the stuff in TRO:3050 may have appeared in the early 29th century instead.)
As far as lost worlds, the majority weren't lost to WMD use, but to technology loss - particularly water purification and atmospheric control - or government neglect. Granted, many on the national borders are due to WMDs, but the interior worlds or peripheral wouldn't have been impacted this way. I whipped up the attached map from the planetary coordinates at Sarna (corrected for errors) - I included all the planets that were mapped in 2782. Those with black border are still mapped in 3025; those with gray borders constitute "lost" worlds. The interior colors of the circles correspond to 2782 ownership. You can see gray bordered worlds along national boundaries (particularly the Capellans who got nasty about nuking worlds during the First War.) But beyond that you can see a lot of gray bordered worlds along the edges of every nation representing periphery-border worlds that just didn't keep the attention or support of the national government anymore (most noticeable in the Outworlds Alliance), but also a lot of interior worlds and these are the ones that must have been lost to technology loss, either gradual or due to foreign attacks (the FedSuns appearing to be the most impacted by this situation.)
Attachment (96 downloads)
|
Requiem
05/15/19 07:30 AM
1.158.130.13
|
In the Canon universe Kerensky may not have imposed a keep off the grass policy. However when you are establishing your own universe you have latitude to take it in directions as yet unknown.
As for the argument of strength, for my universe I am going to argue that after many years of war the units have formed a new brotherhood, and a new identity separate to that of their origins, they have also formed a strong desire to preserve the Star League.
To that end the majority of the forces over 95% will remain within the SLDF – what we do have is the emigration of SLDF personnel’s family into the new Hegemony to establish a new life – I know I am taking liberties here but please allow me my foible so that I can establish a strong Hegemony from the get go – but this could be a possibility in that rather than SLDF units disbanding to return to their former House we have their families emigrating to be with the former SLDF family members. (In reality there would be be a little of both coming and going)
Yes Level 1 tech shall soon be replaced with level 2 tech – though some mercenaries will remain with Level 1
As for lost worlds I would like to see all of them returning – the only thing that would result in it being abandoned (economic reasons) not technological as in my universe I believe that technology could ensure those worlds that have an economic advantage to their House will remain or they are upon an important trade route.
Just on a side note there is an absence of taxation in the game – as many of the great upheavals and declarations of independence were due to excessive taxation. A point missed throughout the game.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
05/15/19 03:38 PM
66.74.60.165
|
Actually, taxation may well have been shown in the game, but not stated as such. The costs of fuel and such would well have that in there, as well as parts and even full units. Part of the expenses probably have it in there.
They just didn't come up with a full catalog of how much is spent on what.
But I do agree that there should be some notation into planetary taxes, as it should differ as you go to different planets.
And with this, I do understand that this will make it that much harder to make any lists of worlds. Some will have massive taxes on some things, while others may have very little to none.
An example may well be a world that grows corn to export. Buying the corn locally, may well cost less, since abundance would keep taxes low, yet a world that has to import it, may well be extremely high.
The lost worlds will change the history of the IS. So much, that I doubt some of the shaping events would not happen. Without orbital bombardment, it is very possible the initial drive into Davion space would have been extremely slow, and maybe even falter before they got more then 2 jumps in.
And I would like a clarification.
Does the ban of nuke and bombardment apply to space stations and such?
I would assume so, but this does need to be known. The factories putting out endo steel and ferrous fiber armor would be greatly affected by the answer.
|
Requiem
05/16/19 01:40 AM
1.158.130.13
|
Ghostrider, sorry but I think you missed the point with regards to taxation in the BattleTech Universe, where is …. within the Battletech Universe …
Runnymede and the Magna Carta;
The Peasants Revolt of 1381;
Parliament Vs. The Crown – Cromwell;
The American War of Independence;
Many of the great changes that have affected people was due to excessive taxation by a “King John” or his “Lords” over the masses or they way in which these Lords treat their people or just through the changing of economics – the moving of society from serfdom and guilds to that of individual ownership and the establishment of “Liberties” within cities (though you still had to pay the rent to the church) ensured a thriving economy (and a thriving black market) that allowed societies to progress over time and allowed us the liberties we now take for granted.
Time and again in within the DC we have the Coordinator overtaxing his people to the point he they are now serfs rather than individuals – surely there should have been a war by the people against the Coordinator and his Lords and Army by the people – a reintroduction of the Robyn Hood / Roundheads and Cavaliers / Levellers story line etc.
Plus this points could also be adopted within the FWL and the CC as to the restriction of trade goods and the reduction in how they live and how they are treated by their so called lords.
Returning a progressive and liberal society (the values of the Star League) to that of serfdom virtually overnight should never have been allowed – the people should have revolted and thrown off the yoke of this mad tyrant. A point I have never understood and believe the writers just went too far to fast with and it is just not believable.
Yes, I agree the introduction of the lost worlds will reshape the IS – but this is the point I want to make – I want it to reshape the IS as the current story line is so plebeian it needs to reshaped into something that I can consider to be more believable.
First, in my universe the Super- War-Computers have stated that to win the war will take up to 100 years plus – so the idea of winning quickly is “not viable”, it will take a very long time to win! – a point every general and citizen must come to terms with. You can only win when your army and your military industrial complex is so vast that it will out-perform and out manufacture everyone else (look at America’s WW2 production – it was so vast and powerful that I doubt the entire rest of the world combined could equal their production by the end of the war)
Rather than using Orbital Bombardments to progress into enemy territory – what about using the WW1 tactic of the Storm-Trooper and the WW2 tactic of Blitzkrieg - a stiletto dagger approach as it were? Identify clusters of worlds that contain vast amounts of military industrial complexes and go for these …. then move on once secure against retaliation. So yes there is a possibility that the war may falter two jumps in – it now comes down to how proficient your army and your generals are on the front line whilst the military industrial complex keeps them supplied whilst taking advantage of any break-through hat presents itself.
As to the clarification …. Yes, all nukes are now banned from all engagements on world and in space …. and against all targets, even warships.
For me this is the way Battletech should have evolved right from the start and this is why I believe a new “White Knight” Corporation needs to purchase all of the different licence parts of Battletech – thus rebuilding it back into one corporation – and from there restart the game with a new brand and a new story arch such as Battletech 2.0.
When you compare the Battletech game of thrones to that of the TV series the Battletech version is severely lacking don’t you think?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
Wick
05/16/19 11:36 AM
45.43.104.179
|
Having grown up with Succession Wars era BattleTech, I would strongly disapprove of a 2.0 that rewrote everything to remove the sense of loss. Future histories are better with great loss, be it the ravages and technological decline of the succession wars, overthrow of the Republic in Star Wars, or the fall of House Atreides in Dune, to name a few examples. I don't mind the thought experiment and fan fiction of a what-if alternate future, but I don't think FASA or the early fiction authors were at all wrong for the approach they took. If anything, what they got wrong was bringing back all that lost technology way too fast (it took the Inner Sphere 200 years to lose it, but only about 30 to gain it all back, at least the militarily-important bits.) Loss, conflict, and change keep things interesting - which is why we don't have many stories in the 2620-2720 timeframe in BattleTech canon - its too peaceful. Or all that many from 2950-3015 - the Third war has gone on so long its gotten routine. Rewriting BattleTech to have a 100 year war from 2782 to 2880ish, with high-end technology and all sides on roughly equal footing would probably grow tiresome before the halfway point.
If I'm not mistaken, the Ares conventions allow for nukes against strictly military targets. Its the civilian ones that are absolutely off-limits (and ignored during the First Succession War, and again in the Jihad.) So space stations and construction facilities would be safe, but warships a potential target. I think it become customary to simply not use them though except in dire circumstances (little warship being chased down by a much bigger one) and even then its almost certainly a court-marshalable offense to actually use one. I think it ultimately just became a deterrent and reserve in case the other guy used them first. The proper military doctrine would be to fight with the weapons and aerospace fighters you've got, and if you're outgunned, its better to surrender than unleash a nuke on your opponent. I agree nukes would not be used, but not because of an outright ban - its instead something moral commanders just don't do. (The WOB's mindset was far from moral, and in the First Succession War everyone was nuking out of reprisals for the other side's attacks, escalating from isolated incidents to wide use.)
|
ghostrider
05/16/19 03:16 PM
66.74.60.165
|
Just to make sure, wick, this thread is for the alternative universe requiem is trying to establish.
Now the tax issue again.
The idea was to show that taxes where horrible for most in the universe. Prices of equipment were higher then they should have been, or horribly lower if the availability was as bad as they wanted to say.
Some of the issues with taxes is the unfairness in how they are done. Normal people paying for the entire budget, while the rich pay nothing, and may even be getting paid by the taxes to expand their holds.
And with a feudal system, the local government tended to be the ones to really put the screws to the locals with taxes.
This is not saying the main government wasn't bed, but each level added to it.
Now as for storm troopers and such, I think that is what the original thoughts of what mechwarriors were. The elite knights sent in to take lands that normal ground forces couldn't. Power armor would have been some to, but more for special ops concept. But then this would be more likely when resources were poor at best, like the 3025 era was supposed to be.
The concept of a ground attack dropship would be more likely in a resource rich environment. Clear an lz easier and with less risk the trying to get vehicles down under fire.
Then again drones would be a major unit in this. Even just being a flying bomb. So anti air would be more prevalent in this universe. WMD doesn't have to be irradiation nukes, or chemicals/biologics. Simply crashing a dropship in the middle of a city with bombs just dropping before it does may fit that role. The barrel bombs used in the middle east comes to mind.
Sucks the air out of people, then shoves toxic crap into them as the breath the tainted air left by the bomb.
|
Requiem
05/16/19 08:37 PM
1.158.130.13
|
The canon Ares Convention Articles included the following….
Article I forbade the use of nuclear weapons against all civilian targets and planets and military targets within 75,000 kilometers of a planet.
Article II forbade orbital bombardment except against vital military targets which were not anywhere near populated areas.
However for my universe ….
Article 1 and 2 – the use of WMDs both nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and orbital bombardments has been outlawed. I would also include the use of “acts of god”, such as dropping a dropship loaded with HE as a violation of this clause.
And within the Appendices if a House was involved that House will lose their HPG grid until such a time as their House Lord surrender’s him/her-self for trial + compensation is paid to the aggrieved House (in the form of systems / planets). If a “mercenary” is responsible they are to be declared an outlaw and hunted down / killed and their employer will stand trial / pay reparations.
In my universe these weapons will be banned.
As for the return of technology within the Battletech Universe – there are many instances of Star League era tech that has not returned, even by 3150, have a look at the SLDF Aerospace pilot uniform under Sarna Wiki for one – and then there is also the Huntress Debacle.
As for the loss of technology making the story interesting – I believe that the reverse can also be held as equally valid.
If we are returning to a Feudal Society then then Runnymede and the Magna Carta / The Peasants Revolt of 1381 become a very real option for history within the Battletech Universe. How many would like their lives as a serf in comparison to that of what we have now and the human rights gained by the era of the Star League? Returning to serfdom should have been fought vigorously by every citizen within the Inner Sphere.
As for taxes – yes there could be local taxes and then there could be areas that are considered liberties (refer to England around Shakespeare’s time and the Burrow Market for example) – areas where taxes / rules do not apply to commerce. Civil disobedience due to excessive taxation has been the cornerstone of many coups so why not include them en mass into the future Battletech history? A Tylor Watt scenario as it were could evolve in any of the Great Houses.
As for Drones I am in complete agreement that they will become a very large part of any future – highly technological military – from aerospace pilots to reconnaissance assets to even replacement infantry assets. And on a side note add to the complexity of the Double Blind rules – they could allow the computer to plot an accurate fire strike for artillery / LRMs etc. with no penalties.
Though if you want large bangs and fire – using a prodigious amount of HE and Fire Warheads you could start a Firestorm, if the environmental conditions are favorable – look at Dresden for an example – where the fire became so violent people were picked up off the street by the force of the wind and sucked into the fire – something to remember and never allow again. We do not need to the very end of the spectrum of bad ad allow it into our game – as when we use these weapons what does it say about ourselves?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
|
|
Extra information
|
0 registered and 88 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie
Print Topic
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is enabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Topic views: 5124
|
|
|
|
|
|
|