Bob_Richter
12/11/01 04:56 PM
134.121.144.40
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1) We use the map NathanKell has so generously contructed for us.
2) You forfeit the game.
That's it. I never agreed to allow you full control over the terrain and YOU SHALL NOT HAVE IT.
Just because you're afraid to face me in reasonable terrain, you have to make up some BS excuse like (well, since we're using custom vehicles, I get to pick the maps.)
Do you have ANY idea how STUPID that sounds? Any idea? I didn't think so.
Pathetic.
Anyway, so what's it gonna be? Play or forfeit, your call.
And don't be too long deciding.
Be advised, these ARE your only options. If you do not select the first, I WILL ASSUME YOUR FORFEIT. Is that clear?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
12/12/01 12:58 PM
63.173.170.37
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Play on the terrain with the extra tree
Or forefit the game.
No you are the one who is afraid or you would have used Book mechs and vehicles to prove your point, but alas you can't do that so now you are trying to bash me cause you are so worried about losing.
Time to put up or shut up Bob...
The only pathetic person is you Bob, who can't look at the rules and see that as written vehicles are going to get beaten 9 times out 10 by mechs.
I have been waiting for you to grow up and face me on the terrain that was picked...if you don't like then cry to someone who gives a damn, cause I don't.
You either fight on the terrain as given by me as the maps we are fighting on and done up by Nathan or you forefit the game and post that you are wrong.
I am waiting your answer.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
12/12/01 01:16 PM
63.173.170.37
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Are you your brother's mouth piece?
Let him fight his own battles. The maps where picked, he didn't b---- then, now he is...seems like he wants his cake and cookies and the TV show as well.
Sorry not happening...he either fights on the revised maps with some extra trees tossed around on it or he forefits the game and post that his ideas are wrong.
End of story so it's up to him, not you so please let him be the one to run out on this.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
12/12/01 01:28 PM
63.173.170.37
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BOB IS WRONG...the RULES prove that. HE CAN'T SEE THAT.
I don't have to prove anything, HE is the one who has to prove is ideas are correct and that the RULES are wrong not me.
What he can't fight with some extra clumps of trees out there? Wow...how does he play on standard maps then??? Or home made terrain? Damn he would have cried himself hoarse at UCON last month with amount of trees in the Stiener vs Kurtia fight....
I don't see his problem...if his ideas are so perfect and they are not, then the terrain shouldn't matter after all he is such a noted tactican and all that to hear him talk...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Korbel
12/12/01 01:30 PM
206.152.237.32
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Since This has gone on LONG enough I say you both fight on a Blank map... Not only will this TOTALLY discount (whoever is the vehicle guy) if he is defeated. We can put to rest the constant bickering that is all we have read on this board for the last fraggin' month.
if not all lvl 1 clear terrian then all lvl -1 water to let the mech guy have an advantage due to heat dissapation.
If you stack the terrian against the Vehicles then it proves nothing... his oringal thesis was well designed vehicles are better than equal tonnage mechs... Not that they will win again all odds...
I still don't see what the big deal is... Though I hate the possible crit with each hit, You can carry alot more weapons and armor, compared to speed than you can for mechs...
that compared with numerical superiority makes vehicles a viable force... though vehicles one on one vs mechs will almost always lose, against elite pilots
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NathanKell
12/12/01 01:31 PM
24.44.238.206
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First, it is worth pointing out that I already revised the map once, nearly doubling the number of trees and hills. And now you want more?
Second: I am interested in why you seem to think that you can declare a theory wrong.
It also seems that you still don't understand the theory. The theory is that well-designed vehicles can defeat mechs.
Nowhere and never has Bob stated that any vehicles can defeat any mechs. THAT IS NOT THE THEORY.
It's clear you believe (with justification) that book vehicles are nowhere near as good as mechs.
THAT POINT IS NOT IN CONTENTION.
The question remains--do you agree or disagree with the ACTUAL THEORY. I have yet to hear a response.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
12/12/01 01:33 PM
63.173.170.37
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Hey I have been ready for three plus weeks...and so it's up to him...not me.
And no I didn't stack the maps in my favor, I picked NORMAL terrain that would give each side advantages and ways to use tatics, it's not my fault he can't see that or understand that...but hey we knew that to start with.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
12/12/01 01:38 PM
24.44.238.206
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You seem to still fail to grasp the fundamentals of proof.
This is how it works:
1. A theory is created.
2. This theory is tested.
3. If the theory is proved false, it's false. Otherwise, it's a still theory.
THEORIES CAN NEVER BE PROVED RIGHT. That's impossible (as it would require infinite testing). As long as a theory remains not disproved, it remains a theory. If it's disproved, it's thrown out.
So:
Let's say I have a theory: cars can go no faster than 60mph.
It's ludicrous, clearly.
But until someone TESTS it it has NOT been disproved.
In addition it is wisest to first test a theory with all conditions to its advantage. If it still is disproved, clearly it's utter rot, and you don't have to test it again. If not all conditions are to its advantage than it has not been fully tested.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
12/12/01 01:41 PM
63.173.170.37
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I don't agree with anything Bob is claiming at all...
And all I asked for were some more trees spread out around the map, like small two to four tree clumps and you two are complaining about that...not tons of trees just some more...and he cries...tough.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
12/12/01 01:42 PM
63.173.170.37
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No I follow that clearly and easily...it's Bob who doesn't given that all of his points are countered by the rules for vehicles and how they work in the game.
Now are the maps ready and has Bob gotten over is hissy fit?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Korbel
12/12/01 01:46 PM
206.152.237.32
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If you don't mind me asking what is it you are fighting about... Besides "he is wrong"
On what grounds are you stating that Vehicles are no match for any mech... the rules definately don't say that... I do think vehicles have a few disadvantages, but I definatley think they are more than a match for equal tonnage of mech.
actually that is the ONLY way besides cost where I think they are more than a match to mechs... If you go by equal numbers... nope its mechs... but anything else and its vehicles... You get more weapons, armor, and movement on vehicles... there is no deputing that... it IS in the rules...
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NathanKell
12/12/01 01:49 PM
24.44.238.206
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I think I see where the problem lies....
Bob's theory is that a properly designed and employed force of vehicles can, under level 2 rules, defeat ANY given 'Mech force of equal tonnage.
Instead of attempting to disprove this theory Karagin has put forward a theory of his own: that under level 2 rules, ANY mech force can defeat ANY vehicle force of equal tonnage given that the terrain favors the mechs.
The problem is that, in order to disprove the first theory, conditions outside of the second theory must be employed.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
12/12/01 01:51 PM
63.173.170.37
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Bob posted what he thinks gives vehicles advantages over mechs, and I pointed that with the given tohit loction for vehicles and the other rules dealing with how vehicles take damage in the game out weigh and cancel those advantages.
He counters with the idea that better thought out vehicles can take down mechs with in his given advantages...I again pointed out the rules don't support that and we are here with him wanting to dictate everything that will happen in the fight and won't shut up long enough to actually have the battle.
So I am still waiting for him to answer me or forefit the battle.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
12/12/01 01:59 PM
24.44.238.206
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him wanting to dictate everything that will happen in the fight.
That's how it has to be to disprove something.
I'm not saying it's a setup for a fair fight. I am saying that that's how it has to be if you want to disprove his theory.
Otherwise it's just another game of BT, with specific force selections on each side, and proves and disproves nothing.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
12/12/01 02:01 PM
63.173.170.37
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If you say so...either he plays on the maps as stated from the start or he is forefitting the battle.
Enough said time for him to back his words up on the battlefield.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
12/12/01 02:04 PM
63.173.170.37
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Nope sorry not that either...thanks for playing...
Nope my theory is given the rules as written, mechs will win 9 times out of 10 in any terrain over vehicles as long as the FASA rules for damage and such from the BMR-R are used.
Which is what I have been saying all along, but BOB won't see that...
And beside if Bob is such a good player the terrain shouldn't matter because he should be able to adjust and work with it to gain the win, other wise he is a third rate player who spends more time playing the computer game or Solaris 7 style fights then actual Battletech battles.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/12/01 02:05 PM
204.245.128.108
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>It also seems that you still don't understand the theory. The theory is that well-designed vehicles can defeat mechs
Really? Is that what this is all about?
A good player-designed vehicle will whupp up on a lot of mechs. Who would think otherwise?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
12/12/01 02:08 PM
63.173.170.37
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Really? Under what rule set? CAV? Renegade Legion? Star Wars? Car Wars?
What game are you playing by the way?
And if you have forgotten, I spent most of the early part of this year and last year arguing that the vehicle rules need to be redone and I didn't see anyone running up and defend the idea then, but now you are interesting...I could say something about fair weather fowls and such but I wouldn't want to upset anyone...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
12/12/01 02:17 PM
24.44.238.206
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I wasn't here last year.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
NathanKell
12/12/01 02:18 PM
24.44.238.206
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"mechs will win 9 times out of 10 in any terrain over vehicles "
Then why on Earth are you arguing over what terrain to use?
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Cray
12/12/01 02:33 PM
204.245.128.108
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>Really? Under what rule set?
Battletech. A good vehicle will rip a mech apart in BT.
>And if you have forgotten, I spent most of the early part of this year and last year
Memory is irrelevant. I wasn't on Sarna.net before [snip]...I registered on 7/27/01, 2:46pm.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (12/12/01 02:53 PM)
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Bob_Richter
12/12/01 04:42 PM
134.121.144.40
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Your forfeit is noted.
Nathan, I apologise, it seems I shall have no need of your services, after all. (it is quite alovely map, though, you want to try something out on it?)
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
12/12/01 05:27 PM
63.173.170.205
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Where did I forfite??? Sorry son nice try.
Stop trying to be superman and let's get this over with and have the damn battle.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
12/12/01 06:01 PM
134.121.144.40
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It is over with. You made your choice. You have forfeited your challenge.
Now suck it up and be a man about it, son.
Further responses in this vein will be ignored.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
12/12/01 06:20 PM
63.173.170.230
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YOU ARE THE ONE FORFITTING NOT ME!
Get that through your head. I am ready and waiting on you...so if anyone has given up it was YOU.
Deal with that son.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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