Force Composition

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TRYCORP
12/15/01 11:28 PM
172.140.103.10

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Ok.. I am attempting to construct myself a decent sized Clan Force.. but I can't figure out what makes what past a binary\trinary and i am not even sure about that.. I also wondering about assault binarys and support trinarys and all that kind of stuff...

I know (i think) this much:
5 Mechs = Star
2 Stars = Binary
3 Stars = Trinary
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
Black_Phoenix
12/15/01 11:45 PM
207.252.105.105

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5 Mechs = Star
2 Stars = Binary
3 Stars = Trinary
2-3 Binaries/Trinaries = Cluster
3-4 Clusters = Galaxy

5 mechs + 5 pts elementals = 1 Nova (or Super Nova, I forget how Novas/S. Novas work)


Does that help? :)
History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

NathanKell
12/15/01 11:49 PM
24.44.238.62

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Supernova is a nova'd trinary (or binary?).
"Standard" config is 45 points in a Cluster, though IIRC there are some Supernova Clusters (45 mechs *and* 135 elementals).
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
TRYCORP
12/15/01 11:52 PM
172.140.103.10

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Helped a bunch but still wondering about Nova's, S. Nova's, and Points..
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
NathanKell
12/16/01 12:20 AM
24.44.238.62

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A Point is 1 Mech or 5 Elementals or 2 Aerospace fighters or 2 Conventional Vehicles, and is considered a *single unit* for Zellbrigen.
A Nova is a Star of Mechs *and* a Star of Elementals (i.e., 5 mechs *and* 25 Elementals, or 5 "extra" Elementals per mech; they ride on the mech and are trained to act in concert).
A Supernova is a Trinary of Novas (i.e., 3 Novas or 15 mechs *and* 75 Elementals).
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
Bob_Richter
12/16/01 11:47 AM
134.121.144.40

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>>>3-6 trinaries of mechs, a star, or binary of AS fighters, and
up to the number of mech trinaries, elemtnal trinaries<<<

That slightly overstates the Cluster's strength.

By conventional reckoning a Cluster is 3-5 Binaries or Trinaries of ANY type (including Supernova Binaries and Trinaries.)

The maximum Cluster you're allowing is far enough overstrength that two Clusters could be formed from it.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Bob_Richter
12/16/01 11:48 AM
134.121.144.40

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>>> A Supernova is a Trinary of Novas (i.e., 3 Novas or 15 mechs *and* 75 Elementals). <<<

Uh. Trinary OR Binary.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
TRYCORP
12/16/01 02:29 PM
172.164.202.116

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I decided to go with a 3 Binary Cluster.. But as far as i can tell it will be all mechs.. not a vehicle fan...
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
TRYCORP
12/16/01 02:35 PM
172.164.202.116

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alrighty thanks.. now that i have decided what to go with i got 1 more question for ya.. There are (as you know) some very picky people in the world.. and i need to know if any of the mechs i want to put into my cluster would make someone angry.. if so how could i justify it or is there just no way too.. the mechs are: (p.s. The cluster belongs to Clan Nova Cat)

Cougar
Dasher
Hanku
Puma
Uller
Jenner IIC
Locust IIC
Wolfhound IIC

Shadow Cat
Ryoken
Black Lanner
Nobori-nin
Hunchback IIC
Wyvern IIC

Cauldron-Born
Crossbow
Linebacker
Mad Cat
Night Gyr
Nova Cat
Thor
Vulture
Orion IIC
Rifleman IIC

Daishi
Man O' War
Masakari
Supernova
Turkina
Blood Asp
Gladiator
Marauder IIC
Warhammer IIC
Highlander IIC


"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
Bob_Richter
12/16/01 02:43 PM
134.121.144.40

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You might still want to consider fighters and elementals. An unsupported Cluster is like to be a dead Cluster.

Just my opinion.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
TRYCORP
12/16/01 02:47 PM
172.164.202.116

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well.. i haven't found a way to represent elementals cuz i can't find (or afford) enough of the mini's.. would do on ebay but not old enough heheh.. and i just can't stand aerospaces..
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
TRYCORP
12/16/01 02:49 PM
172.164.202.116

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Anyone have anything to say about above post?
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
Bob_Richter
12/16/01 02:50 PM
134.121.144.40

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Hm. Only objection I would have is:

Wolfhound IIC is (to my knowledge) a unique 'Mech. I could be wrong, but it seems that the only one ever produced was made for (then) Mechwarrior Phelan Wolf by order of Ulric Kerensky.

There are numerous ways to justify this selection
1) You captured the unique 'Mech FROM the Wolves, as a way of counting coup.
2) The 'Mech was noted by Nova Cat high command as a good design, and after a breif Trial of Possession, Clan Nova Cat made a small production run of them
3) Bunches of things I haven't thought of yet.

Of course, I could just be plain wrong on that.

Possible other objections:

1) Turkina is a Jade Falcon 'Mech, and it's a bit unlikely to see it outside that Clan.
2) You have mixed front-line Omnimechs with second-line Battlemechs.

-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
TRYCORP
12/16/01 03:12 PM
172.164.202.116

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Well, I have repeats of some of them, and don't plan on useing all the chassis. I just wrote down all the ones i liked. To see what I could use..
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
TRYCORP
12/16/01 03:14 PM
172.164.202.116

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But thing is I like both Omni's and IIC's equally.. there NO way they could be together???
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
TRYCORP
12/16/01 06:14 PM
172.160.124.204

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Alrighty.. what about a single lance of IIC's in one of my binarys? So they can sort of stick together?
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
TRYCORP
12/16/01 06:45 PM
172.160.124.204

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All in all the mechs I have left are:

Cougar
Dasher
Hanku
Puma
Uller
Jenner IIC
Locust IIC

Shadow Cat
Ryoken
Nobori-nin
Hunchback IIC

Cauldron-Born
Crossbow
Linebacker
Mad Cat
Nova Cat
Thor
Vulture
Orion IIC*
Rifleman IIC

Daishi
Man O' War
Masakari
Supernova
Gladiator
Marauder IIC
Warhammer IIC

I think I will construct all of the binary's with omni's except for a single Star out of one of them depending on weight Classes.

*Also I know that i left the Orion IIC in, but I already have a miniature of it and like it so I am just gonna have to say I salvaged it...

So, does anyone see a problem with the above??? =)
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
TRYCORP
12/17/01 08:03 AM
172.132.90.176

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Alrighty and sorry about the lance thing.. sheesh. nit picky heh.. anyway if u guys could have a look see at the final mech selection at the top to see if there are anymore suggestions\problems?
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
TRYCORP
12/17/01 08:05 AM
172.132.90.176

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heh alrighty.. i won't use all of them and will duplicate most of them.. just put down all the ones i COULD use if i wanted to..
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
Nightward
12/17/01 07:17 PM
203.134.12.8

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This all depends on what you have in mind for your unit to do. At the moment a friend of mine has my copies of the Clan Field Manuals, so I’m going to have to rely upon my memory to answer this one.

If you are asking about organisational doctrine:

25 Infantry = 1 Point
5 Elementals = 1 Point
5 ProtoMechs = 1 Point
2 AeroSpace Fighters = 1 Point (Clan Steel Viper counts one AeroSpace Fighter as being 1 Point)
2 Vehicles = 1 Point
1 'Mech = 1 Point
1 DropShip = 1 Point
1 JumpShip = 1 Point
1 WarShip= 1 Point

5 Points = 1 Star

2 Stars = 1 Binary

3 Stars = 1 Trinary

but

4 'Mechs + 2 AeroSpcae Fighters = Strategic Command Star (I’ve also heard the term ‘Quasar’ applied here). Independent action unit; may be assigned to command operations but will not be part of larger force.

1 Star 'Mechs + 1 Star Elementals = 1 Nova

2 or 3 Novas = Super Nova

and

4-6 Super Novas/Binaries/Trinaries = 1 Cluster

1-8 Clusters + Optional Independent Command Trinary (Keshik) = 1 Galaxy

If you are talking force deployment, each Clan has different ideas. And then within each Galaxy/Cluster/Whatever there are even more ideas on what to use.

From memory, the Blood Spirits have stuck with Nicholas Kerensky’s original writings and each of their Clusters has 5 Trinaries; 3 'Mech, 1 Vehicle, and 1 Infantry. They do not use Novas as part of their standard formations and do not permanantly assign AeroSpace Fighters to their Clusters.

Other Clans generally have 2 'Mech Trinaries (or 3 Binaries), a Nova, a Star of Elementals, and a Binary or Trinary of AeroSpace Fighters.

The Wolves, Ghost Bears, and Hell’s Horses are all very big on Elementals and use them quite heavily. They all possess large numbers of Nova formations.

Clans Jade Falcon and Ice Hellion are not real big on Elementals, preferring big chunky Assault 'Mechs and light, fast scouts respectively.

Clan Cloud Cobra is really big on AeroSpace Fighters and fields few 'Mechs, Elementals, or Vehicles. The Snow Ravens like their spaceships and AeroSpace fighters and are a bit light on ground forces as well.

Clan Hell’s Horses likes its Vehicles.

Front-line forces (except in Clan Blood Spirit, Hell’s Horses, Cloud Cobra, and the Snow Ravens) will be dominated by OmniMechs. The Spirits use a lot of so-called ‘Second-Line’ 'Mechs (I ask you. Who considers the Blood Kite to be ‘Second-Line’? It will absolutely shred a War Hawk). Those Clans do not have the manufacturing power to produce OmniMechs, and so possess fewer of them.

In Second-Line forces only Star Captains and above will have access to OmniMechs, and that only rarely. Generally speaking, the higher one’s rank, the heavier the 'Mech they shall be assigned to. Except in Clan Ghost Bear, where saKhan Aletha Kabrinski pilots a Fire Moth.

A typical Star will have 2 Heavy 'Mechs and 3 Medium 'Mechs. Clan Ghost Bear goes overboard on Heavies and Assaults, but the Ice Hellions like light, fast 'Mechs. The Wolves prefer fast-moving 'Mechs also.

Each Clan then further has a ‘Favourite’ OmniMech, Vehicle, Elemental type, or AeroSpace Fighter.

Blood Spirit Favourites: Kingfisher, Blood Kite, Stooping Hawk, Battle Cobra.

Cloud Cobra Favourites: Hellfire, Batu, Sylph Elementals.

Coyote Favourites: Savage Coyote, Canis.

Diamond Shark: Thresher, Pirhana

Fire Mandrill Favourites: Cauldron-Born, Salamander Elementals. One of the Kindraa can only build certain OmniMechs. From memory, it is Mattila-Carrol, and the 'Mechs are the Adder, Nova, and War Hawk, but don’t quote me on that.

Ghost Bear: Kirghiz, Kodiak, Executioner, Mad Dog, Fire Moth.

Goliath Scorpion: Fire Scorpion, Undine Elementals.

Hell’s Horses: Ares, Kodiak, Epona, Gnome Elementals.

Ice Hellion: Ice Ferret, Hellion. They supposedly have ‘Fast Elementals’ but there are no rules. Perhaps an OS SRM-2 and 4 Jump MP?

Jade Falcon: Scytha, Turkina, War Hawk, Summoner, Hellbringer, Black Lanner, Fire Falcon.

Nova Cat: Dire Wolf, Nova Cat.

Snow Raven: McKenna- Class Warships (OK, OK…Clint IIC)

Star Adder: Blood Asp, Hellfire, Battle Cobra.

Steel Viper: Crossbow, Batu, Battle Cobra, Vapour Eagle.

Wolf: Gargoyle, Naga, Jagatai, Timber Wolf, Linebacker, Nova, Pouncer, Ice Ferret,Phantom, Adder.

The Clans tend to group 'Mechs of similar movement rates together, no matter how much they weigh.

Hope that answered your question.







Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
TRYCORP
12/17/01 08:49 PM
172.160.226.15

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Alrighty.. I decided to make 3 Trinary's FINAL ANSWER (I hope) The third trinary will have 1 Elemental Star, 1 Aerospace Star, and 1 Vehicle Star. Now, since I don't know squat about Aerospace fighters and Clan vehicles.. who here has point suggestions, and the Techie Readouts to back um' up?
"Machine Guns! Thats a Summoner out there! Do you plan to punch little holes in it, and have it fall down from too much ventilation!?!"

TRYCORP
Clan Nova Cat
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