INSANE ALTERNATE HISTORY

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Hellbringer
03/04/02 07:17 PM
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WHAT IF...... When General Kerensky came to Terra and deposed the Usuper, instead of packing up and leaving afterwards, Aleksander declared himself First Lord and proceeded to conquer the Inner Sphere with the SLDF? Pretty nuts, huh?
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
Bob_Richter
03/04/02 08:32 PM
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Correctamundo.

But maybe he could have taken the helm of the Hegemony until a successor could be found and worked toward re-forming the Star League.

Of course, then we wouldn't have had all those fun wars.

-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
NathanKell
03/04/02 10:07 PM
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This topic, like Kerensky himself, is like a bad penny...it keeps returning!
And every time it / he / they do(es), there's a war
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
Karagin
03/04/02 11:18 PM
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Things would have been along the same lines as we know them, but instead of a Clan invasion in 3050 we would have seen the rebuilt Terran forces slamming into the Houses and fighting would have been brutal and worse then it was.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
KamikazeJohnson
03/05/02 12:04 AM
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However, IIRC, Kerensky left because the House Lords unanimously did not want him maintaining any position of authority. Had he tried to set himself up as First Lord, or enev Regent or something like that, the others would probably have overthrown him by force. I highly doubt that, so soon after dealing with the Usurper, the SLDF would be in any condition to deal with a temporary alliance of all 5 Successor States...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Bob_Richter
03/05/02 12:19 AM
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What about Hegemon?

I'm just talking about defending the Hegemony and staving off the Succession Wars. His army was large enough that none of the Successor States alone would have dared oppose it.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
KamikazeJohnson
03/05/02 12:36 AM
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Hmmm...the impression I got from the account in the DC Sourcebook was that the House Lords basically wanted Kerensky out of the picture...they also weren't interested in peace, so the Succession Wars were inevitable. If Kerensky had stuck around in any position of authority (except, possibly, a general under someone else's direction), I believe the House Lords would have moved to be rid of him, since he represented a threat to their collective authority. Given time, I think he could have consolidated his position as Hegemon, and held theterritory, but I don't think the others, especially Jinjiro Kurita, would have given him time to rebuild his army. And chances are, the others would have joined in to get a piece of the action.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Bob_Richter
03/05/02 12:52 AM
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Heh. You might be right.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
CrayModerator
03/05/02 07:42 AM
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Hey, I propose that all the time. I don't think it's nuts.

There are several issues you need to address. Primarily, Kerensky didn't seem to be the man for the job - he wasn't a leader of civilians, not the kind that could rebuild the Hegemony fast enough to help the Hegemony survive the brewing Succession Wars. He also seemed to lack the political abilities to get himself recognized as First Lord.

Obviously, this would need to change in the alternate history...

[edit]

Oh, wait, I missed the "conquer the Inner Sphere with the SLDF" part. Yes, that is nuts. But Kerensky declaring himself First Lord is more sane and was heavily supported by the public.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.


Edited by Cray (03/05/02 10:50 AM)
Hellbringer
03/05/02 11:02 AM
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I'm just saying WHAT IF Kerensky wasn't the gleaming moral figure he really was.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
Hellbringer
03/05/02 11:03 AM
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WHAT IF Aleksandr wasn't the gleaming moral figure he really was.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
CrayModerator
03/05/02 11:03 AM
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Then you get the First Succession War with a different name. The War of Kerensky's Aggression, for example.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Hellbringer
03/05/02 11:06 AM
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Kerensky left on his own accord. The House Lords made him so sick he had to leave. They did not like him, but they did not force him to leave either.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
CrayModerator
03/05/02 11:07 AM
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You know...

*IF* Kerensky wasn't such a nice guy but did, say, lay claim to the Hegemony throne (at least) and then rebuilt the Hegemony, but did so from a not-so-nice-military-guy's point of view...you could easily, EASILY end up with a fascist state just spoiling for a fight.

I'm sure there's a lot of resentment in the Hegemony over the Inner Sphere's non-intervention that could be turned into a nasty, nationalist political movement. And if Alexander...

Oh, forget Big Al. Think of *Nicholas* Kerensky taking over the helm of the Hegemony after pops kicks the bucket. Oh, man, if he could create the Clans, think of what he could do with the Hegemony! What a nasty war machine (and neighbor) that would be for the rest of the Inner Sphere.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
KamikazeJohnson
03/05/02 12:59 PM
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He left by choice, true, but mostly because the House Lords made it clear they wanted nothing to do with him or his peace proposals

"Irritated by the aging war hero's persistent calls for peace, the Lords began to hint boldly that it was time for Kerensky to retire."
--DC Sourcebook, p.51

Kerensky left rather than stick around as a non-player in a hostile environment, and I'm sure his departure made the House Lords very happy...first, he's no longer pestering them to share the sandbox and play nice; second, the departure of the SLDF left a large supply of Mercs available; third, Kerensky and the SLDF would have been a major obstacle for each House's plan of conquering the entire IS. So, even though Kerensky left by choice, it was still more or less what everyone wanted.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
KamikazeJohnson
03/05/02 03:11 PM
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I think the biggest problem with the "Kerensky stays" scenario is that he likely wouldn't last long, since the House Lords want him out of the picture. Which got me thinking...

Some time ago, Karagin posted an Alt. Hist. scenario where one or more of the Successor States actively supported Kerensky against the Usurper...I was thinking about that and came up with a scenario where Kerensky sticks around...

So...first situation, say, the FS decides to help out. Stefan Amaris doesn't like that, and starts trying to round up support for himself. The natural source of that support is Minoru Kurita, since Amaris has leverage...namely Kurita hostages. Now here's where it gets complicated :-\ Amaris leans on Minoru, hinting that FS would probably be rewarded for helping out, get SLDF support, blah, blah, very powerful etc. And by the way, if FS or SLDF troops land on Terra, the hostages die (isn't he a wonderful fellow?) Now, what Kurita really wants to do is shove a PPC down Amaris' throat and discharge it, but his father's dying request was to free the hostages through negotiations rather than violence. Ugh. So Minoru can do one of two things at this point...using various diplomatic means, he can attempt to convince FS to stay out of it, or he can "take advantage of FS focus on Terra" to launch an attack on FS, drawing troops away from Terra. Either way, someone in the DCMS decides Minoru's actions are aiding the enemy...dishonourable conduct...blah, blah...Minoru gets himself assassinated. Jinjiro "Kill them all" Kurita steps in as Coordinator and vents his anger on Amaris, directly, violently, and with no attempt to cooperate with the SLDF or to spare innocent bystanders. Consequently, Jinjiro takes Terra faily quickly while the SLDF is busy mopping up the surrounding area. Sound plausible so far?

So now we have DC in control of Terra, after shocking everyone with their callous disregard for the safety of anyone. No one wants Jinjiro on Terra, so the House Lords vote to boot him off. Who better to make that happen than our buddy Kerensky? So what happens next? The First Succession War (possibly under a different name) would erupt immediately, with FS wanting some payback for DCs actions, everyone takes advantage of the confusion to try to enlarge their territory, and Kerensky sitting in control of the TH (whether or not he finds someone to wear the official title). Which brings us to the topic of this thread...Kerensky sticks around and, whether he's not as nice a person as everyone always thought or simply P.O. with the childishness of the House Lords, he decides to stake his own claim for the Star League throne.

What I find interesting about this scenario is that, even after all the differences, you end up with basically the First Succession War, with the TH still present as a significant power. A situation much like what Hellbringer postulated

Take that, Harry Turtledove
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
CrayModerator
03/05/02 03:20 PM
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>Consequently, Jinjiro takes Terra faily quickly... Sound plausible so far?

No, not the Terra part. Unless Jinjiro went nuke happy on the Caspar drones. I mean, the SLDF bled itself white invading the Solar System.

Otherwise, sounds good.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
KamikazeJohnson
03/05/02 03:29 PM
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I'm speaking in a relative sense...Keep in mind that Kerensky was most likely trying to keep casualties and collateral damage to a minimum...somehow I doubt Jinjiro would have cared about either of those factors. Still not saying it would be easy, but compared to Kerensky's more cautious, methodical approach...

Its amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care how many of your own forces survive the battle...Come to think of it, wouldn't have been an inconceivable recourse under the circumstances...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Bob_Richter
03/05/02 03:41 PM
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Considering the losses the SLDF took, The DCMS fleet lacks the strength to insert an assault force on Terra.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
KamikazeJohnson
03/05/02 03:58 PM
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OK, Jinjiro Kurita was brilliant militarily, so he would know whether or not he had the strength to invade Terra...so we have a few What If's...

What if...Jinjiro cooperated with the SLDF (and any other invading parties) enough to conduct a successful invasion of Terra. Possibly using things like nukes to save time. Anyway...Jinjiro insists on spearheading the final assault, ends up more or less in control of the planet (at least to a greater degree than any other party). Anyway, the result I was aiming for was Jinjiro ending up marginally in control of Terra, which shifts the attitudes of the other House Lords towards Kerensky: they want him to stick around to keep Terra out of DC hands. Then the Succession Wars break out with Kerensky and the SLDF as an active power, which gives us Hellbringer's idea.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Black_Phoenix
03/05/02 11:53 PM
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...H*** on Tharkad froze over and Kat became a total ice b**** because of it?

Ah, d***. That's already happened. And I thought I had something good there. Oh well.
History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

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