Nightward
03/21/02 11:51 PM
203.134.13.194
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Exactly my point.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
03/22/02 03:30 AM
63.173.170.99
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TK wrote:
In reply to:
The msot you can say is that you have pilots fulfilling an infantry tyep role - but then, given that we have Elementals in mechs and mechjocks in aerospace fighetrs I can't see that as any cause for complaint.
See! I knew the BS from that darn Cartoon would come back to haunt us!!!!!!!!! A mech warrior piloting an aerofighter or an elemental piloting a mech...right I believe that...I will stick with Ultra Lights mechs myself...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
03/22/02 07:34 AM
192.195.234.26
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It is not from the cartoon, warriors who show talent for a different area of battle than expected get transfered to that group. A child from an elemental sibko who shows little skill in battlearmor will be tested to see if it has more natural talent in a mech or aerofighter, if it has no combat talent, it is sent to the lower casts. The sibko usually defines the type of combat a warrior will see, but exceptions do occur.
meow
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Karagin
03/22/02 07:39 AM
63.173.170.139
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All is true yes, BUT you would not see them returning to pilot the Battlearmor or the aerospace fighter...in the perfect and wonderful (gag me with a spoon) cartoon, we see a Trueborn Star Colonel mechwarrior piloting Battlearmor without any trouble as if he did it every day of hjis life and then our golden boy Adam Stiener can also pilot an aerospace fighter as if he too has been doing it all of his life...
Some how I don't see that happening...adavacning to a new part of the warrior caste sure that can happen at a young age, but the rest as given via the cartoon I don't see happening...and before you toss Kia's little adventure into the mix, do note that he was only shown enough on how to work the suite to get the job done...and even then he was not perfect at it...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
03/22/02 07:42 AM
192.195.234.26
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Ah, yes, what you are refering ot in the cartoon is completely unrelated to the topic here. If you are going to nitpick in relation to elementals, complain how a group of scrawny freebirths who have had no training can put on a couple of suits and effectively blast their way past all the Clanners in sight. By the rules, they should have been struggling to get the armor to move.
meow
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Karagin
03/22/02 07:47 AM
63.173.170.139
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No it is related...since the first set of proto pilots would have the same problems you just mentioned...the point is you can't expect a mech pilot to know HOW to fly a fighter and you can't expect an aerospace pilot to know how battlearmor works and that is what the protomechs are more less asking of it's user, here is something that has power of a mech but does the job of infantry...oh and an ex-aerospace pilot is going to run it...some how I don't think this would have been beyond the testing stage when Op.Serpeant hit Huntress...but it's clear that SJ testing stage means full scale production with well trained pilots....
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
03/22/02 08:08 AM
192.195.234.26
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And you cannot expect anyone to now how to fly an experimental design. Besides, protomechs are, as far as interface is relevant, completely unlike battlearmor. The pilot gets into a small interface chamber and then perceives that he is the protomech, he does not experience the joys of wearing 1 metric ton of heavy armor and trying to force it to move gracefully (which is difficult even with the myomers, otherwise elementals would not need to be so large).
That is the advantage of the human learning system, just because you were not trained from birth does not mean you cannot acquire the skill.
meow
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Karagin
03/22/02 08:55 AM
63.173.170.186
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Acquiring the skill would take years of training to learn the basics and the years to master them...for a mech pilot starting at age 20 trying to learn to pilot the protos would find it hard then he would to pilot a mech that he has been training on for 10 years plus...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/22/02 09:43 AM
204.245.128.3
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Over 500 registered users and only 13 votes. I wanted to see a bigger sampling in this poll.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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novakitty
03/22/02 09:53 AM
192.195.234.26
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So then, obviously, it was impossible to test the first generation mechs, aerospace fighters, and battlearmor.
meow
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Karagin
03/22/02 10:00 AM
63.173.170.186
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so do I.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/22/02 10:02 AM
63.173.170.186
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no. that is not what am saying. I am trying to get across the idea that this is not as easy as FASA made happen. If it was then the Clans would have LAMS and we not be having the dissucsion.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
03/22/02 12:33 PM
192.195.234.26
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If you have played Mechwarrior (the pencil and paper RPG, not the computer games) you would know that to pilot an LAM requires skill in both piloting/battlemech and piloting/aerotech. This is why the Clans do not use them, because an LAM pilot would have to undergo two distinctly different types of training to gain any advantage out of it.
meow
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Karagin
03/22/02 12:35 PM
63.173.170.179
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Never mind...forget I am bowing out of this one...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
03/22/02 08:51 PM
24.44.238.62
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Protomech piloting requires no skill, IIRC, just EI. Remember, you *are* the protomech. Are you going to say that clan aerospace pilots don't know how to walk? Don't know how to shoot a rifle? Because that's all it takes. Anything else is handled by the on-board computer. Sure, it takes a while to get *used to* a bigger, stronger body, but you don't have to *learn major new skills* (like a cadet learning how to fly, for example).
Up until now, all vehicles have required massive amounts of training (even driving is hard) or massive amounts of strength (i.e. battle armor) combined with moderate amounts of skill (the way to move to get the myomers to activate). Protomechs are NOTHING like this.
Let's say you get your knees replaced. Sure you have to get accustomed to them, but you don't have to *learn to walk* again.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
TenakaFurey
03/23/02 06:14 AM
195.92.194.19
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Its not from the Cartoon, its from the FMs.
Mechwarrior piloting ASF - GB (the Khan)
Elemental in Mech - WiE.
To an extent, i don't agree with it. As Phelan comments in the BoKT, where would they get a cockpit big enough for an elemental/ mechwarrior but.....
EJL
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TenakaFurey
03/23/02 06:16 AM
195.92.194.19
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No -it takes skill and taringinto use a ProtoMech. Maybe you can percieve it to be your body, butt here are other factors - a different CoG and pov for example - that woudl make it tricky to use and operate without training.
EJL
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TenakaFurey
03/23/02 06:19 AM
195.92.194.19
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Ok - I voted!!!!
Happy?
Now, quit compalianing;_)
And don't look at me like that!!!
EJL
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Greyslayer
03/23/02 05:06 PM
137.172.211.9
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Not to mention the fact that the 'jump' like battlemechs which would be foreign to the aerospace pilot as well as different sensory perceptions.
Greyslayer
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Nightward
03/24/02 07:08 PM
203.134.12.8
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By the rules, they should have torn themselves to pieces trying to get them to move.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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novakitty
03/24/02 10:51 PM
209.242.100.230
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Last rules I saw for non-elemnals in clan battlearmor would not quite be what I would call "torn to pieces" but maybe "suffering from excessive stress induced self inflicted injuries", at least for the first five minutes, then probably torn a bit.
I cannot remember how long it takes a mechwarrior with a build of 3 to die from wounds inflicted by use of a suit of combat armor designed for an elemental with a body of 5 (using mechwarrior 2nd edition character definitions).
meow
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Karagin
03/25/02 08:27 AM
63.173.170.46
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All true, BUT the cross over crap started with Kia, a one time off chance thing, and the cartoon made a common anyone can do it, just like riding a bike thing.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/25/02 08:28 AM
63.173.170.46
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I am no longer discussing this part of the thread.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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