Karagin
03/25/02 04:28 PM
63.173.170.10
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What is the optiumum number for a heavy mech? Would a ration of 2 lasers for every AC be the best way to go when building a mech or is there a better way?
Example one AC/10 w/ two LL or 2 medium Lasers.
Ideas?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/25/02 05:08 PM
12.91.117.254
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Well, IMO...generally, ACs are not a good idea at all, except for something like a RAC/5 or UAC/20.
Large Lasers are likewise generally not a good idea, either, nor are small lasers. Poor range, heat-to-damage ratios, etc.
Leading to something like: 0 ACs to 1-2 (ER) PPCs to 6-10 medium lasers.
Unless you meant the mech MUST have an AC, which I'd have to think some more about. Did you? I'd be happy to think some more about this. There's also the missile question - LRMs or no?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/25/02 06:33 PM
63.173.170.217
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Read the post, what I meant was there, the question was about the ratio of lasers to ACs on a heavy mech, nothing but that, and what would be a good ration, 2 to one, 3 to one or 4 to one.
Thanks...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
03/25/02 06:34 PM
24.44.238.62
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It depends on the tech level (and, of course, the mass of the heavy in question).
In Level 1, I'll buck the trend and say AC/10s are nice. Actually, once you've finished with the 10 free HS, they're often better than LLs (which share their range). However, AC/5s are considerably worse than PPCs (which share *their* range). Since I hardly ever focus on medium-range combat, this is the layout I prefer:
1 PPC (soaks up the 10 free HS) and a number of LRM-5s. 4, with 2t ammo, combined with the PPC (and 14SHS), is good for a 70 tonner, say. Then, grab MLs until you've done your heat that way (i.e. 2ML per 3 LRM-5, plus 3ML per PPC). That makes 5 in this example.
Level 2 IS: Never ever use an AC. Gauss rifles are good if you're high on weight and low on crits (which really means you're low on available crits for DHS).
Level 2 Clan: same as above, but GRs aren't as good as PPCs except in the situation outlined above (but moreso since DHS don't take as many crits). I see very little point *at all* in Clan ACs.
Basically, energy weapons are good because: 1, you get 10 free HS, and thus part of the mass is already "paid for," and 2, any mass you put towards HS may be used for *any* energry weapon. Comparison:
Level 1:
5x (5t LL + 8t HS) = 65t
4x (12t AC/10 + 3t HS) = 60t
but...when you factor in 10 free SHS, and add Medium Lasers...
{5x (5t LL + 8t HS) - 10t HS (free) } + 13x (1t ML + 0t HS, because you already have them) = 68t
{4x (12t AC/10 + 3t HS) -10t HS} + {13x (1t ML + 3t HS) - 12t HS (from the ACs} = 90t
The difference becomes *obscene* at Level 2.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
NathanKell
03/25/02 06:35 PM
24.44.238.62
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Hmm...he tries to be careful and helpful ("wait, did you mean this? Just making sure...here's my answer to this, if you wanted it...") and you smack him down.
Real nice.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
03/25/02 06:40 PM
63.173.170.217
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Helpful as to what tearing the topic apart?
It was clear, you have an AC on the mech WHAT would be the best ratio to go for laser with it...that's it nothing else to add in or take away...what couldn't he understand?
No smack down, a simple point out that he was not reading what was there. He was adding in WHAT HE THOUGHT was there. Same point I was getting at on the main board, read the post, and only the post, then come up with an answer without adding in anything.
This is getting really sad, I posted this on other boards and no one has yet to add anything to infact most have come up with some interesting ideas on this mixing of the ratios for ACs and lasers...so why is it so hard for the posts here to be simplely read, and commented on with out folks trying to add more to them just because they THINK they know what the author of thread meant?? Don't you think if I wanted what he gave I would have asked for it??
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/25/02 06:45 PM
12.91.117.254
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You did NOT say "nothing but that," and I DID say I'd be happy to consider it further. You left open the option that "0 ACs" was perfectly valid.
I agree with Nathan. At L1, an AC/10 is a good weapon. At L2...well, a RAC/5 is good. So, 1 RAC/5:1-2 (ER) PPCs:4 medium lasers.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/25/02 06:46 PM
63.173.170.217
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How did you draw the idea that NO ACs was an option?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/25/02 06:47 PM
12.91.117.254
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Tearing nothing. Who was advocating not reading in things that weren't there?
My questions and suggestions were meant to be taken at face value. I awaited clarification, and you were a prick about it. (THAT was an attack, yes.)
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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NathanKell
03/25/02 06:53 PM
24.44.238.62
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You say (and yes, this *is* verbatim...)
ACs or Lasers Clear enough description of the topic.
What is the optiumum number for a heavy mech?. 0 ACs, as we both say, and as many lasers as you want.
a ration of 2 lasers for every AC be the best way to go when building a mech? No, 0 ACs to any number of lasers.
or is there a better way? Yes, there is. Avoid ACs.
Example one AC/10 w/ two LL or 2 medium Lasers. Ideas?. See the examples I gave above.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Cray
03/25/02 06:54 PM
12.91.117.254
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You asked what the optimum ratio was. I told you what it was IMO: zero ACs to everything else. You did not REQUIRE ACs in your post. You left it completely open ended.
And I asked if you meant if at least 1 AC was required, just to be sure.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/25/02 06:55 PM
63.173.170.217
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The post say you have an ACs on the mech what would a good ratio of lasers to go with it, I then give an example with the AC10...now please tell where in all of that you came up with the idea that it had to be an AC10?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/25/02 06:57 PM
63.173.170.217
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I asked for the ratio of lasers to ACs, the example was clear enough...
SO you feel none is the answer, fine thank you for your input.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/25/02 07:01 PM
12.91.117.254
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>SO you feel none is the answer, fine thank you for your input.
No problem. Let me know if you have anymore similar Qs. It was an interesting one.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
03/25/02 07:53 PM
12.91.117.254
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See the Du-So. Karagin has some idea behind, but I haven't reckoned what. I was trying to ask over there.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/25/02 08:05 PM
63.173.170.83
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To get a decent balance between the two that allows the mech to be flexible where needed and still pack a decent punch. And to get away from the mechs that mix all the weapon types...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/25/02 08:17 PM
63.173.170.83
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I understand that, so I am looking for ideas on what folks think would be the best ratio of the two...with the AC being the single part of the ratio.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
03/25/02 11:15 PM
209.242.100.230
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Allowing any tech level (assuming IS only), I would suggest seeing what you could do with a HV AC5, 2 or 3 ER mediums, and a few classic mediums for close range power.
meow
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Hellbringer
04/02/02 11:22 AM
192.195.234.26
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HV ACs!?!?!!??!?!?!? Those things suck!
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
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