Diablo
05/18/02 12:11 AM
209.239.13.202
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whats the point of short ranged weapons anyway? LR weapons have a distinct advantage with the short range column... 0 modifiers where a medium laser might have 2 or even 4! so what would be the point of mounting weapons with ranges that suck so much?
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novakitty
05/18/02 12:38 AM
192.195.234.26
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Heat and tonnage efficiency. A large laser may have a much better chance to hit at any and all ranges, but an array of medium lasers can always get more damage from the same available tonnage, once the enemy is in range.
Medium laser: 1 ton, 5 damage, 3 heat
Large laser: 5 tons, 8 damage, 8 heat
tonnage increases 400%, damage increases 50%, and heat increases 166%. Depending on unit mobility, this might be a better choice since the large laser has about 66% more range than a medium, or it might not.
meow
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Cray
05/18/02 09:21 AM
12.91.128.225
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Because the little, short ranged guns do so much more damage. Look up any decent either-or design, like the Penetrator.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Hellbringer
05/18/02 09:40 PM
192.195.234.26
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Yeah, look at the Nova/Blackhawk/Blackhawk-ku if you want to see the effectivness of medium class lasers.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
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Zwischy
05/18/02 11:17 PM
63.49.182.0
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Minimum range is usually one reason you mount short-range weapons. If the other guy gets underneath your big guns, what else are you going to hit him with? In my experience, being a sniper bot is a wonderful advantage, but at SOME point, you're going to have to shoot the bad guys at short range. Better have some extra punch to deal with it.
The other reason, as stated earlier, is the efficiency of heat and tonnage to the damage of the weapon. Medium lasers are the most efficient weapons in the game.
However, I think SRMs shouldn't be overlooked, either. Sure, you can't fire as many missiles as from an LRM rack, but for 2 damage/missile they're cheap tonnage- and heat-wise. I think another aspect that some people miss is the chance for criticals. Fire 12 SRMs (2 Streak 6 racks) and I REALLY like my chances of rolling a floating critical. It's happened often enough on the sand table to make me a believer.
Want to have some fun? Build a barrage bot - something smallish, say 30 tons, with good speed and nothing but SRMs and lasers. Run up to (or preferably behind) something and let 'em have it with an alpha strike. I used to like having a pair of 3025 Commandos working in tandem to take down targets. Sure, they don't survive long, but they can often draw fire meant for bigger 'Mechs, and that can make a difference.
zwischy
Edited by Zwischy (05/19/02 01:17 AM)
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Nightmare
05/19/02 12:46 AM
194.251.240.107
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My Commando uses Infernos for the SRM-4. That`s a good reason for having short-range weapons.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Zwischy
05/19/02 01:16 AM
63.49.181.237
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Can you use Infernos on any size SRM rack now? I thought you could only do that with SRM 2's. A 6-pack of Infernos would be...*shudder*
zwischy
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NathanKell
05/19/02 02:20 AM
24.44.238.62
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They changed it, from SRM-2 and SSRM-2 to all SRM and no SSRM.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Nightmare
05/19/02 02:47 PM
194.251.240.107
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Yup. My Wolverine carries them too. Directly responsible for taking out a Rifleman and a Phoenix Hawk in the same battle.
Got them both overheating, the RFL managed to get an ammo explosion. The PHX ran away, so the Wolverine shot it`s head
off in a freak display of marksmanship. A Green pilot...
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Cheapbuzz
05/20/02 08:43 AM
132.15.225.211
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Wait until you get shot up with 3 to 4 atm 12s using the HE ammo. Then and only then will the answer be beatin into your silly little head.
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Diablo
05/20/02 06:40 PM
209.239.13.202
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I've tried that.... my Ultra-Vulture died too quickly though.....
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LordChaos
05/20/02 09:11 PM
216.161.101.71
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Pit a level 1 Archer against a level 1 Kintaro, then come back and ask that question again. the Kintaro not only gives up range, it's giving up 15 tons... and it's got a damn good chance of winning.
Short range weapons are normaly more heat effecient (important in level 1, somewhat important in level 2), have good damage/tonnage ratios, are lighter (more weapons = more chances to hit = more damage on the average).
additionaly, in my experience, most battles aren't decided till you've gotten into close range. Level 2 extended the range a bit, but a short ranged mech isn't at that much of a disadvantage even then.
However, one can take this too far. A 70 ton mech armed with nothing but MGs (and all of them it can carry) is going to kill an atlas in 2 turns once it get's into range... but it's not likely to get THAT close... 
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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Cheapbuzz
05/21/02 04:16 AM
132.15.225.211
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"Ultra-Vulture" That sounds interesting, what are the stats?
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Cheapbuzz
05/21/02 04:20 AM
132.15.225.211
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I've actually tried that once with a MG Griffen and a Straight up Battlemaster 3025 of course. The end result was the Battlemaster was victorious Although it took 3 head shots.
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Greyslayer
05/21/02 03:30 PM
137.172.211.9
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That is highly dependant on whether the other unit has 3-4 AMS systems online and chewing all your firepower. Also ATMs are Clan and as such there are wayyyy better systems in their arsenal not so prone to being nullified (or in the case of LRMs not being nullified so badly).
I tend to look at a close-in force as a must-win initiative force. Due to the restricted range brackets the close-in units have a smaller margin for error in distances. Also a close in force find it harder providing cover and to lose initiative and yet still mass-fire on one target. My preference is a combination of both Long Range and Short Range weapons, most tourney forces of lance size in the 3025 I have used usually have a combination of both, prime examples would be Crusaders and the Lyran Archer as well as the stalker.
Greyslayer
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Diablo
05/21/02 04:08 PM
209.239.13.202
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lost the specs in the last format but basicly it was a 100 ton clan mech using 4 ATM 12s with one of each type of ammo per launcher...
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KamikazeJohnson
05/21/02 05:07 PM
209.202.47.12
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>>prime examples would be Crusaders and the Lyran Archer as well as the stalker.<<
mmm...Stalker...me like Stalker...Stalker good
Having a couple short-range bruisers on a force can be very effective even losing initiative...so long as you have at least one 'Mech (support 'Mech preferably) that can move first without endangering itself.
For a graphic example of short-range effectiveness, re-read the exploits of the SS-2X StreakStorm from the 1st JMInc Design Challenge...that thing still gives me nightmares!
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Cheapbuzz
05/22/02 06:11 AM
132.15.225.211
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When it happened to me I was in a Nightstar, was is the key term here.
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Gangrene
05/23/02 12:33 PM
168.150.101.101
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Short range weapons have a distinct advantage in weight-vs-damage ratios. For the same tonnage as your long range weapons you can pack a much larger punch. Given the poor accuracy and range of Btech weapons in general, chances are that if somebody has a bunch of short range weaponry they will get a chance to use it.
Gangrene
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novakitty
05/23/02 01:41 PM
192.195.234.26
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It seems everyone who wanted to post has had the same answer. You have many options as to which one of us you think has said it most eloquently, and get to pick your favorite to quote when needed.
meow
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