Unlikely head shots.

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Cheapbuzz
05/07/02 06:22 AM
131.36.116.42

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A while back I was GMing a game and during the game the tide kept changing, eventually the players won. Last week I was informed that at certain times during the game (when their victory was looking bleak) they would use a set of loaded dice against me usually with a gauss rifle or some other deadly weapon. So has this ever happened to any one else? And if so what would you do about it?
novakitty
05/07/02 08:47 AM
192.195.234.26

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Provide the dice yourself, and make them a very unusual pattern.
meow
CrayModerator
05/07/02 08:59 AM
204.245.128.3

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Had a set of loaded dice. They struck me as *extremely* obvious in the funny way they wobbled. I never got to use them more than one roll with a given gaming group. If the ones you encountered were less obvious, could you find out who made them?

Anyway, I think Nova Kitty's suggestions are good ones. Provide the dice yourself, basically. You're the GM. Feel the power.

A third suggestion: use transparent dice, colored or clear. Loaded dice (in my quite limited experience) take a lot of loading, i.e. metal weights, to produce high rolls on demand and would be obvious. Some of the fancier Vegas-style tricks (putting gold dust in the number pips, then painting over) will only shift the rolls toward higher results and may be ignored.

Fourth suggestion: use miniature dice if you can find them. I've seen very small d6 dice. These are specialty dice as is - it's unlikely you'll find miniature AND loaded dice.

Fifth suggestion: say nothing about loaded dice when you provide the dice. "Hey, guys, I got these new, miniature, transparent dice and think they're really cool. Since I'm the GM, we're going to use them, because I like them."
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Greyslayer
05/07/02 09:13 AM
137.172.211.9

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One player in a tourney just finished uses only one set of dice for everything. He continually rolled 12s and averaged over 9 overall.

Now this brings up the topic of battletech ethics. In most situations a player will have a 'favourite' set of dice that roll higher or more consistantly better for the particular gaming environment.

If that is the case then tourneys become nothing more than a competition of weighted dice. To truly have a more random dice a player must either have perfectly weighted dice (that are quite expensive) or the tourney use just a large batch of dice in which the players throw the dice back in the pot at the end of each game to limit those sticking to unweighted dice.

Greyslayer
Acolyte
05/07/02 03:11 PM
64.180.249.201

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Let them know in no uncertain terms that it is uncool, and will not be tolerated. I'd be choked, and if it continued, I wouldn't run any more games for a while.

Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
Black_Phoenix
05/08/02 12:23 AM
207.252.105.92

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Let me guess. Hitting them in the back of the head is out of the question? Then I say follow Nova Kitty's idea, bring your own dice. If they argue tell them flat out why they have to use them, and if they have a problem they should find someone else to play with.

Then again, I have no tolerance for people that take this game seriously enough to cheat like that.
History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Cheapbuzz
05/08/02 04:05 AM
131.36.116.42

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I see alot of good ideas here. Thanks. But if it happens again I think I'll get my own set of loaded dice


Edited by Cheapbuzz (05/08/02 08:34 AM)
Nightward
05/08/02 04:43 AM
203.134.13.194

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Sounds like me, no? With my lucky brown 'Wolf' dice. I remember the year my opponents kept calling in Ned to check my dice. Whilst he did, I used my opponent's dice...and the 12's just kept coming. Sometimes, people just have a good day. The following year, with the same dice, my luck was nothing short of abysmal. I couldn't hit shut-down opponetns from short range with a TC and Pulse Lasers...

But if they are cheating...well, that just ain't right. I'd refuse to play with them.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
KamikazeJohnson
05/08/02 02:02 PM
209.202.47.12

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>>Then again, I have no tolerance for people that take this game seriously enough to cheat like that<<

I pretty much agree with the others on this, however...

I'm not sure what kind of game you were running...if it was a true competition or more an RPG-style campaign (you know, like D&D where the players are supposed to win, but just barely) I used to play RPGs occasionally, and it wasn't unusual for the GM to "cheat" in favor of the players if luck was against them...sometimes a little "divine intervention" helps keep the enjoyment level high. If that's the kind of game you're running, a good approach might be to tell them that if they need "help" to win, you'll cheat for them Should get a laugh and keep them from cheating in the future.

OTOH, if you were honestly trying to smash them , as opposed to just challenging them, then the cheating was completely out of line.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Hellbringer
05/08/02 04:07 PM
192.195.234.26

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I was playing a Battletech/Mechwarrior campaign and I cannot count how many times our GM fudged his rolls in our favor. He saved us from many head shots and Stackpole effects, made the game a lot nicer for us all.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
Cheapbuzz
05/08/02 08:30 PM
165.76.24.174

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Actually were were playing the battle of coventry and in that campaign you win some and you lose some.
KamikazeJohnson
05/08/02 09:07 PM
209.202.47.12

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OK, so in that case, either provide the dice, or use theirs for your rolls too
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Gangrene
05/09/02 11:06 PM
168.150.237.132

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I've never had that happen, but with the people I game with I generally have to bring most of the supplies. They aren't really into it enough to bring loaded dice. Plus mine aren't RP games, but skirmishes.

I'd say, in an RP situation, that you provide the dice and insist they use them. Also, as gamemaster, you have control of events beyond the roles (that's my philosophy). If it is important that someone does or does not die/live, then do what you want despite the rolls. Lastly, give your gamers a way out of situations that look like it might be the end of them.

If its a skirmish situation, then get revenge. Borrow some stuff and don't bring it back for six months. Give their numbers out to all telemarketers who you talk to. Open a can of tuna and hide it in their kitchen or car.

If your not that kind of guy then "turn the other cheek."
Gangrene
Cheapbuzz
05/10/02 12:24 AM
165.76.24.153

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I like the way you think.
MadWolf
06/19/02 02:57 AM
134.53.151.102

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In this situation I'd play another game, then as they were wining using the dice, call a meteor from the sky to lay waste to three of there mechs, killing there pilots, painfully. When they ask "how" you reply, As Gm I am God, As God i commad meteors to fall from the heavins. There dead, and {as you snatch} As god these dice are also Dead. And then they will get the point, if not kill them and bury them in your yard.
Nothing is Impossible, It is only Improbable.
Cheapbuzz
06/19/02 03:41 AM
132.15.225.211

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::chuckles::
Khan_Robinette
06/22/02 08:30 AM
216.24.84.100

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I had one player using loaded dice about 2 years ago. Anytime he was losing or doing badly he would pull out his "lucky dice" As GM I stopped after teh second use of these resulted in another head shot for him, but wanyways I came up with a solution for my group.
I went to Wal_Mart and bought 12 packs of their standard D6's. Then I went by the gaming shop and picked up a bunch of mixed D10's. I kep these dice in one of those little tool box things with all the little drawers.
Anyhows, whenever we get together to play we all grab dice from this common box. All the Dice are identical. I invested about 16.00 and now I do not have to listen to my gamers complain that such and such is using his "special" dice.
Peace for less than the cost of a tech manual
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
LordChaos
06/23/02 03:32 AM
216.161.100.21

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Simple solutions are always the best...

hense my solution of "as GM, I can use YOUR dice any time I wish."

Tends to give people second thoughts about using loaded dice...
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
Cheapbuzz
06/26/02 02:25 AM
132.15.225.211

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Try Ebay.
Durango
06/28/02 02:58 PM
65.212.106.131

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Overall, I like the idea of providing dice.

I have my own "lucky dice" for Battletech and for D&D. I've been known to berate and retire dice during the game for rolling badly, and then to have my replacment set roll fantastically. They are ordinary dice, it's just that sometimes your luck changes.

I have, in the past pulled out my "Battletech Dice" (ordinary dice, merely different from my other dice) and rolled 6x2...and never had players accuse me of cheating...except, of course, the good natured ribbing.

Probably because they are not opaque...they are a dark smoky clear color.

At any rate, just remeber...it's only a game. If they are that desperate to survive, then maybe it may take some tweaking of your scenarios.

...or not.
Toastrider
09/14/02 07:46 PM
172.163.184.34

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Unless it's for money, it's not worth using loaded dice

That being said, sometimes luck CAN be a factor. I was participating in a campaign a little while back, piloting a 3050 Ostsol versus a Loki (can't remember the variant). His initial salvo knocked me around pretty good, though no internals.

My first return shots were IS-LPLs only. One tagged him in the leg, okay. The other? Head. No crit, but it stripped every bit of armor right off his Mech's noggin. I was waving to his suddenly-exposed pilot

Sometimes, Lady Luck does pay visits

--Toasty
"The survivors, not the victors, write the history books."
UncaRat
12/04/04 04:43 AM
172.159.128.132

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There are days when you could be throwing rocks at a mech and get crits, other days you can't get a crit with an orbital bombardment.
;-) He who brings the gods dice should also bring the junk food, let 'em bring their own drinks of course. The idea is to have fun the great thing about a common set of dice is new players can start for very little or no money spent. Lets try to grow the hobby! Yes?
villagereaver
03/09/05 05:20 PM
24.21.141.201

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If you're GMing cheaters, do what i have done. Get a "DM screen" and roll behind it. "Oh what a coincidence, another headshot. I've been getting almost as many as you." "WOW! That was my third (in a row) limb blown off critical! Amazing, eh? Almost as if i were rolling loaded dice or something?"

After destroying 6 player mechs they got the hint and stopped using the dice. The dice actually weren't loaded, but two sets of dice optimised for craps. one had all 5s, the other had 6s and 2s.
Death to all BT and MW authors. For they are the bane of all that is good about the genre!
religon
08/30/05 08:23 PM
192.58.204.226

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Just a comment on the player's motives to cheat.

You have to be very careful as a GM to balance the scenerio slightly in the players favor to keep their trust and to avoid killing all the player characters they have become attached too. It is always tempting to surprise players with dirty tricks and try to strategically play the NPC bad guys well.

Normally, I would suggest the "bad guys" have lower piloting ability and slightly lighter tonnage if you are also going to have the NPC play dirty pool with tricks like mines, artillery, air strikes, and other tools for an interesting scenerio.

I think a good house rule like the old "Force Points" in the d6 Star Wars game or some other saving throw type rule to allow characters to save their bacon would discourage cheating to begine with. Providing the dice is also a good solution, but should be mixed with some sort of game mechanic to prevent quirky deaths to player characters.
Wraith
08/30/05 10:48 PM
24.255.140.173

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We always used MechWarrior characters, so had Edge to mitigate some fluke stuff. And unless we were horribly unlucky, there was an ejection seat.
-Wraith
tranzoandris
08/31/05 06:34 PM
209.124.237.199

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Loaded dice? If i were you and i thought they had loaded dice i would provide my own type of unlikely head shot. In their head. With a handgun. And dispose of the body.

You get my drift? THAT is how I deal with (!*^!(#*@^(#_@*#^$&(_ CHEATERS!!!!!!!!

I have WAY too much anger.
"The lightning is a lone warrior. It strikes down all without care of what it hits. Just think what a controled army of lightning could do!"
-Undiscovered Journal of Konda in Kamigawa

Try the promo code "Swift is the wind"!
Oni_Ryo
01/20/06 03:13 AM
172.174.39.133

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I never have problems like that... I always supply the dice and every one uses the same dice as every one else so if some one is getting really great rolls, its them being lucky, not the dice.

An alternative is have some kind of digital roller do the job for you should you have a computer nearby where you play (ie: the RUS over at heavymetalpro.com or any of the others you can find on the net using google)


But if some one was slipping in loaded dice and i was GM'ing RPG games..... well lets just say my usual good natured GM'ing where i am very very lenient to my players would become something more akin to.... shall we say.... the wrathful diety of death itself giving +10 penalties to even the most simple mundane acts imaginable (ie: Me: "Opps, looks like you failed the roll to brush your teeth and just lacerated your gums...that's gotta hurt" Cheater: "Wtf? Since when do we need to roll to do crap like that?" Me: "Since you started using weighted dice....now close your mouth, you are getting blood every where. Oh by the way, one of your back teeth just spontaniously developed a cavity and your gums are getting infected. Better make a body check to see if your char spontainiously developes gangreen while you are at it.")..... ah yes, being totally omnipotent is so much fun when some one has envoked your wrath enough to warrent abusing err.... utilizing it to its full extent ^.^
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