Karagin
07/26/02 01:56 PM
63.173.170.225
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code:
Class/Model/Name: Von Der Tann Class Von Der Tann
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 470,000 tons
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:
1 Killer Whale
2 Heavy NPPC
60 NL45
40 NL35
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Von Der Tann Class Von Der Tann
Mass: 470,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 84,600.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 11) 212,675.00
Lithium Fusion Battery 4,700.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4) 54.00
Structural Integrity: 50 23,500.00
Total Heat Sinks: 3,500 Double 3,044.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 4,080.00
Bridge, Controls, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1,175.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (350 days supply) 640.00
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (300 total armor pts) 270.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 50
Fore-Left/Right: 50/50
Aft-Left/Right: 50/50
Aft: 50
Cargo:
Bay 1: Fighters (6) with 3 doors 900.00
Bay 2: Fighters (6) with 3 doors 900.00
Bay 3: Cargo (1) with 1 door 41,202.00
Grav Decks #1 - 2: (250-meter diameter) 200.00
Grav Decks #3 - 5: (150-meter diameter) 300.00
Grav Decks #6 - 8: (100-meter diameter) 300.00
Life Boats: 62 (7 tons each) 434.00
Crew and Passengers:
44 Officers (44 minimum) 440.00
95 Crew (95 minimum) 665.00
103 Gunners (103 minimum) 721.00
100 Marines 500.00
24 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Killer Whale (10 msls) Nose 4 4 4 4 20 650.00
2 Heavy NPPC Nose 30 30 30 30 450 6,000.00
5 NL45 FL/R 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 FL/R 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 FL/R 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 L/RBS 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 L/RBS 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 L/RBS 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
15 NL35 AL/R 53 53 53 -- 1560 21,000.00
5 NL35 Aft 18 18 18 -- 260 3,500.00
5 NL35 Aft 18 18 18 -- 260 3,500.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 6,750 470,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 6,807,878,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 85,132
Cost per BV: 79,968.5
Weapon Value: 52,249 (Ratio = .61)
Damage Factors: SRV = 4,070; MRV = 4,070; LRV = 3,207; ERV = 1,269
BattleForce2: Not applicable
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
07/26/02 02:44 PM
64.83.29.242
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Well...it's a bit fragile...one full capital weapons bay will strip the armor off one arc.
But...  OMG did you stuff a lot of guns on that thing. That is a nice, cheap budget bombardment platform. Lots of gravdecks, too.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
07/27/02 12:44 PM
63.173.170.111
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I am not following you on the armor comments...the warships carry capital scale armor correct? 
If that is the case then armor is more then enough to take hits and given that a good commander is going to move around no one spot should take the full assault from the enemy unless things really go bad for the other side.
Could you give some example of what you consider to be decent armor for a warship in the game?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
07/27/02 01:26 PM
24.44.238.62
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I'd say minimum armor is maybe 50-100pts per facing per 200,000 tons--roughly, of course, and dependent on acceleration profile.
You know you can almost double your armor protection here for a piddling 200 tons?
For other changes, and here I'm doing rather more than superficial ones:
Convert all the NLs to NL-55s, saving on FCS limits and increasing range in the rear arcs. Also--and this is more personal preference--you can roughly double your firepower by switching to NAC-30s. Or, if you keep a couple NLs around, your arcs would look like this:
FL/FR/LBS/RBS
3 NAC-30
3 NL-55
AL/AR
2 NAC-30
3 NL-55
Aft
1 NAC-30
3 NL-55
Then you really ought to, IMO, have lots and lots of standard weapons. And, going the above NAC/NL route, you still have plenty FCS slots. And you *certainly* have lots of cargo to soak up the extra mass (~9% at present). So, how about 4 Gauss Rifles and 10 ER Medium Lasers per arc? That won't appreciably dip your cargo space, and the extra heat will still be less than your DHS (you can, in fact, drop to 1,959 DHS).
You'll still have plenty of cargo space left; putting some of that into armor would be advisable. In fact, if you go up to SI 100, and then up the armor tonnage to the max of 940 (giving you 1000pts of armor), you can go to 205/171/151/151, or, if you want even coverage, 171/166/166/165. That will leave 1,233 tons for ammo and 23,500 (5%) for cargo.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
NathanKell
07/27/02 01:30 PM
24.44.238.62
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Pretty much only the Thera, Feng Huang, Avalon, and Mjolnir are armored sufficiently for my taste.
And the Overlord-A3, of course, but that darn near has more armor per facing than the Agamemnon (and the Von Der Tann, for that matter).
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
07/27/02 01:36 PM
63.173.170.111
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Interesting...I will use some of your suggestions on another ship I am working on...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
07/27/02 02:46 PM
12.91.127.211
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>I am not following you on the armor comments...the warships carry capital scale armor correct?
Yes, warships have capital scale armor. I'm not sure where you're not following me, so I'll be painfully pendantic (and I apologize ahead of time). With warships, weapons are not fired individually. They are grouped into weapon bays with a maximum (in the case of capital scale weapons) of 70 capital points of damage. Each weapon bay is treated as a single weapon for attack rolls. You have 50 points of armor in each arc of your warship - there are many warships that can do more than that with 1 hit of 1 capital weapons bay.
>If that is the case then armor is more then enough to take hits
No, it has 50 points of capital armor. That's thin by SLDF/Clan warship standards and can be stripped off by a single hit from a full capital weapons bay (which will do 70 points of capital scale damage). For example, the Aegis (user of NAC/35s) is stuffed with weapons bays that can penetrate your armor in one shot (and inflict a lot of internal damage) while, in turn, it has double your armor in most locations.
Starting in the IS warships of TR:3057, the Impavido*, Kyushu, Kirishima, Whirlwind, York, Essex*, Aegis**, Black Lion**, Sovetskii Soyuz*, Liberator, Texas, and McKenna can defeat the armor (in one location) of your Von Der Tann class with 1 hit from some of their weapon bays.
Simply put: you have 50pts of armor in all locations, they have "weapons" (weapon bays) that can do 54+ points of damage per hit.
*Warships with one asterisk are in the same boat - they have one or more arcs with less than 70 points of capital scale armor.
**Warships with 2 asterisks have nearly as many total fire factors as the McKenna. Gawd, the Black Lion and Aegis can dish out damage.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
07/27/02 02:52 PM
63.173.170.127
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Okay I follow your point a little better now...thanks.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
07/27/02 03:44 PM
24.44.238.62
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Also, there are damage thresholds to worry about. That means, at 50pts of armor, an NL-55 or above will have the chance of a crit.
Thus the wonder of having 701pts of armor per arc 
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
07/27/02 04:08 PM
63.173.170.152
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Okay how about this one:
code:
Class/Model/Name: Von Der Tann Class Von Der Tann
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 470,000 tons
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:
1 Killer Whale
2 Heavy NPPC
60 NL45
40 NL35
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Von Der Tann Class Von Der Tann
Mass: 470,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 84,600.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 11) 212,675.00
Lithium Fusion Battery 4,700.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4) 54.00
Structural Integrity: 135 63,450.00
Total Heat Sinks: 3,500 Double 3,044.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 4,080.00
Bridge, Controls, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1,175.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (350 days supply) 640.00
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (1,350 total armor pts) 1,266.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 250
Fore-Left/Right: 250/250
Aft-Left/Right: 200/200
Aft: 200
Cargo:
Bay 1: Fighters (6) with 3 doors 900.00
Bay 2: Fighters (6) with 3 doors 900.00
Bay 3: Cargo (1) with 1 door 256.00
Grav Decks #1 - 2: (250-meter diameter) 200.00
Grav Decks #3 - 5: (150-meter diameter) 300.00
Grav Decks #6 - 8: (100-meter diameter) 300.00
Life Boats: 62 (7 tons each) 434.00
Crew and Passengers:
44 Officers (44 minimum) 440.00
95 Crew (95 minimum) 665.00
103 Gunners (103 minimum) 721.00
100 Marines 500.00
24 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Killer Whale (10 msls) Nose 4 4 4 4 20 650.00
2 Heavy NPPC Nose 30 30 30 30 450 6,000.00
5 NL45 FL/R 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 FL/R 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 FL/R 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 L/RBS 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 L/RBS 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
5 NL45 L/RBS 23 23 23 23 700 9,000.00
15 NL35 AL/R 53 53 53 -- 1560 21,000.00
5 NL35 Aft 18 18 18 -- 260 3,500.00
5 NL35 Aft 18 18 18 -- 260 3,500.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 6,750 470,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 7,024,078,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 103,403
Cost per BV: 67,929.15
Weapon Value: 102,808 (Ratio = .99)
Damage Factors: SRV = 4,070; MRV = 4,070; LRV = 3,207; ERV = 1,269
BattleForce2: Not applicable
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
07/27/02 06:43 PM
12.78.118.135
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Beautiful! Much better!
Last nitpick: if humanly possible, add 1pt of armor to each arc (251/201).
You gotta watch those armor thresholds. At armor 200, a weapons bay with 20 capital points of damage has chance for a crit. At 201, your armor threshold becomes 21 capital points.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
07/27/02 06:49 PM
63.173.170.183
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I would but the armor points won't allow it...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
07/28/02 12:35 PM
24.44.238.62
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Max your armor, for a piddly 3 tons. That'll let you at least do that on Fore and Fore Side arcs.
Or, you could drop 482 tons somewhere, and up SI by 1 and armor by 12, giving you a full 12 extra pts (perfect, in fact... +2 all arcs).
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
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