Karagin
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Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36782 - 08/18/02 01:48 PM (63.173.170.162)
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What you folks think? Can the fighters take out the frigate and it's fighters or is the warship to much for them to deal with?
There are NO dropships on the warship and YES the warship has fighters. The actual version of either the fighters or warship is not important since this to get ideas about the topic and see what you folks think. 
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
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Posts: 1481
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36783 - 08/18/02 02:09 PM (216.14.192.226)
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Seriously this should be in the battlespace/AT2 section. Apart from that it would depend on the design of the warship (the fighters it is armed with) and the fighters that were attacking it. A wing of 20 aerospace fighters might have troubles where a heavy aerospace fighter may not. Also it depends on if the fighters were all deployed at the time of initial contact (aerospace ambush).
It certainly is possible though.
Greyslayer
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Karagin
General
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36786 - 08/18/02 02:16 PM (63.173.170.162)
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I felt it would be more suited to the General area of discussion then just to the Aerotech board.
The warships is frigate, and it has fighters, as to what kind I feel that is not important since the same kind will not always be there and thus the out come will differ, the idea here is to see what folks think with the given items as to the outcome of the events.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36788 - 08/18/02 02:20 PM (66.72.236.80)
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Well, in theory, yeah. A wing of fighters can take out a frigate. How many losses they suffer while dogfighting and the type of fighters the frigate carries could have an effect on that battle.
A horrible example of this doesnt come from battletech, but from Star Wars (ep. 4). A single fighter and a heavily modified rustbucket manage to take out the largest mobile space station ever constructed.
Of course, there is also what I call 'lucky shot syndrome,' or the ability of a pilot to make a shot that has odds of a million to one or greater (like having a missile penetrate to a fuel line, autocannon round hitting power conduit).
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novakitty
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36791 - 08/18/02 02:36 PM (209.242.100.230)
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Given the amount of undefined variables (and the fact that good or bad die rolling can counter any advantage that should be there), yes.
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meow
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Karagin
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36792 - 08/18/02 02:42 PM (63.173.170.162)
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What undefined Variables? The scenario is spelled out 1 wing of aerospace fighters versus a single firgate and it's fighters...what is not defined?
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36796 - 08/18/02 02:51 PM (66.72.236.80)
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The type of frigate, the type of fighters attacking hte frigate, and the type and number of fighters onboard the frigate.
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Karagin
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36808 - 08/18/02 04:18 PM (63.173.170.182)
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Once more, the type is not important since there are several versions out there, it's a generic grouping...in other words you have to apply everything to get an answer, thus giving an opinion.
Does that help you out?
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
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Loc: Queensland, Australia.
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36813 - 08/18/02 04:22 PM (132.234.251.211)
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Karagin....play nice.
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36816 - 08/18/02 04:26 PM (63.173.170.182)
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I am...seems I need to spell out things a little clearer...sorry if it sounded harsh.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
Lieutenant Colonel
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Posts: 1701
Loc: Queensland, Australia.
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36818 - 08/18/02 04:27 PM (132.234.251.211)
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Depends. Is this a Wing composed of Cheetah fighters, or Shivas? Or somewhere in between? Is the Frigate a Whirlwind or a Dante? Are the Fighters from the Second Sword of Light, or the Huistang Warriors? Is the Warship Clan or InnerSphere, ComGuard or House? Too many variables, there are.
Ultimately, I'd say the WarShip. If only because it can always wait until the Fighters come in on attack run then Jump out, thereby horribly killing every fighter that attacked it, and escaping to another system to boot.
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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masdog5
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36820 - 08/18/02 04:28 PM (205.213.145.27)
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From a tactical standpoint, it is though. THere are a variety of frigtes in the battletech universe, each with its own offensive capabilities. Without defining even some specifics, like the makeup of the two fighter groups that are attacking the frigate, then you get the really generic answer of yes...which is only because anything is possible,especially under 'lucky shot syndrome.'
However, if you were to be a little more specific, and say what type of frigate, ie light escort, anti-fighter, etc, without naming the class, and also mention a general makeup of the two squadrons, ie the attackers have 10 heavy for attacking the ship and 10 light to escort the attack for while the defender has 10 medium, you can get a better opinion on this.
So in a sense, it is important because the guidelines you laid down are too broad.
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Nightward
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Posts: 1701
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36821 - 08/18/02 04:29 PM (132.234.251.211)
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No worries. Maybe just read through your posts in the Review screen, eh?
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36824 - 08/18/02 04:42 PM (63.173.170.182)
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I laid out the scenario to keep it simple...and to allow you to comment by taking everything into account.
Now does that help?
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36826 - 08/18/02 04:44 PM (63.173.170.182)
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The varibles are there yes...but they are there so you can compare them all and then answers thus the generic form of the scenario.
So take all of the version of the ships in the topic and think about how they would do and then answer the question...
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
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Posts: 1701
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36827 - 08/18/02 04:45 PM (132.234.251.211)
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I did. The WarShip will win because it can use the KF drives to tear its opponents to shreds, whilst at the same time running away. What better victory could there be  ?
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36828 - 08/18/02 04:45 PM (63.173.170.182)
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I read them...thing is it get's really tiresome when I can post the same blast question on other BT boards and folks answer it with thought out answers AND don't go well if you would list out...
So forgive me if I got a little up set...
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36829 - 08/18/02 04:46 PM (63.173.170.182)
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While that is a great idea...how many warship captians are going to actually pull it off?
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
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Posts: 1701
Loc: Queensland, Australia.
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36831 - 08/18/02 04:47 PM (132.234.251.211)
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Again, Karagin...
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 05/09/01
Posts: 1701
Loc: Queensland, Australia.
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36833 - 08/18/02 04:49 PM (132.234.251.211)
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I would
And they do it in a couple of novels. Of course, the bleeing hearts were traumatised by the "hideous death" they'd must given their fellow spacers. Of course, being as I play as either a Vat-Bred Clanner and a blood-hungry Kuritan, I have no such emotions
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
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Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36834 - 08/18/02 04:50 PM (63.173.170.182)
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Okay...that's one way of dealing with them...
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
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Loc: Queensland, Australia.
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36835 - 08/18/02 04:51 PM (132.234.251.211)
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Still. Be nice. He made more or less the same points everyone else made. How would people answer this question: Could one Lance beat another Lance? Unless there are specifics, nobody knows....
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36836 - 08/18/02 04:55 PM (63.173.170.182)
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It's not about whether a Cheetah wing can take out anything, the idea here is if a wing of fighters can take on a frigate class warship or not.
It's a generic question that allows you the person answering to figure out if it can be done or not using all of the known variables out there and then giving an answer.
Same kind of situation happens when doing military wargames set up to see how folks react to unknows...like you are in command the enemy has a light infantry unit in your area good luck...what you do and how you react and how your force sets up etc...are up to you and finding out more or not is up to you...same idea here with my question.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36848 - 08/18/02 08:12 PM (205.213.145.27)
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'Same kind of situation happens when doing military wargames set up to see how folks react to unknows...like you are in command the enemy has a light infantry unit in your area good luck...what you do and how you react and how your force sets up etc...are up to you and finding out more or not is up to you...same idea here with my question.'
Except that in a wargame, you have some specifics. You know what you have, where your troops start out, and the terrain.
In your question, you only know that one side is a fighter wing, unknown composition and the other side is a frigate with some fighters onboard.
Its fair enough that you dont know the class of frigate that you are fighting and what fighters it is carrying. But to not tell us the qualifications of your wing of fighters makes for a poor tactical situation and poor commander.
'It's a generic question that allows you the person answering to figure out if it can be done or not using all of the known variables out there and then giving an answer. '
In order to solve an equation, though,you need some constants. At least, thats the way it works in every math class I have taken. All we have is variables, so in theory, it is possible. As commander of the situation, though, you would have more information than 'I have a wing of fighters...i need to take out a frigate...'
'the idea here is if a wing of fighters can take on a frigate class warship or not...'
In theory, with just that information...yes, its possible. Anything is possible in theory...
In practice, its possible if...[insert list of hypotheticals here]....
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Karagin
General
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Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36855 - 08/18/02 10:18 PM (63.173.170.69)
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Again you are missing the point. The question is set up so you can plug in all frigate types and all fighters and come up with and out come.
Thus it comes down to an opinion. Do you think a fighter wing can take out a frigate, yes or no.
Why is this so hard for you and some of the others to figure out?
IF that sounds mean or what not, tough, I am a little tired of the BS that pops up every time a question is asked that doesn't spell everything out in nice neat little packages.
I am looking for opinions on the question in the subject, NOT well if you had done it this way or that way.
I hope this clear it up because I am not going to repeat myself on it again.
The topic stands as it does with a generic setup to allow ALL the bases to be covered, if you don't like that well then post a topic or question you like and we can talk about it. 
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36859 - 08/18/02 11:43 PM (205.213.145.27)
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As I have said before, it is inside the realm of possibilites that a wing of fighters can take out a frigate. Can they do it every time? No.
You seem pretty confused about your own questioning. 'The question is set up so you can plug in all frigate types and all fighters and come up with and out come.'
What you have to realize is that each time you plug in a different fighter type, or mixed fighter squadrons, or change the frigate, you get a different tactical scenario. This leads to way too many possibilites for a simple yes or no.
Also, I would like to note that the commanders of both forces deserve to be shot. What admiral in their right mind would send a warship into a system unescorted, and what air wing commander would only send a single squadron against a frigate(question null if planet is under attack and that is all that remains of airforce), especially against a ship type that is known to carry fighters?
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Karagin
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36862 - 08/19/02 01:00 AM (63.173.170.168)
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The only confused person around here is you, my friend. The question is generic. Thus the answer will require you to plug in ALL of known ships and figure out the average or take a wild ass guess and give a simple opinion.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
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Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
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Re: Can an Aerospace fighter wing take out a frigate?
#36869 - 08/19/02 03:26 AM (4.35.174.250)
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Since a Frigate can easily carry a Wing of fighters, I'd say, all things being equal, the answer would be no.
Even if the Frigate were a Congress.
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-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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realworldviews
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Loc: Ga, USA
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Well I'll take a shot at this
#36975 - 08/19/02 07:17 PM (24.98.65.7)
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YES
and
NO
It all depends on what each side has.
If the Fighter Wing is all light fighters and the Frigate is carrying all Heavy fighters,
Then most likely, NO.
But the other way around then it may be possible.
A generic Question can only be used to get so much of an answer.
If you asked something closer to
'Would a Wing of Heavy fighters have a chance against a Frigate class Warship that just appeared in system?'
That would at least leave you some room for discussion while giving people a problem to think about.
The question you asked is TOO generic. There are just too many variables. You complain that people don't get your question. You did not even give enough of a question to get a proper answer.
I could probably give you multiple example for both YES and NO.
But then you would probably complain that I did not give you a real answer, but instead I skirted around the question by not giving one answer.
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Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Bob_Richter
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Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
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Karagin's question really wasn't that hard to understand.
#36980 - 08/19/02 08:19 PM (4.35.174.250)
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Just apply the phrase "all things being equal."
The fighters aboard the frigate are of the same type and the same skill levels as the attacking fighters. The frigate does not have an especially strong anti-fighter defense, nor does it pack abnormally heavy armor plating.
This being the case, I'd say the answer is "no," wouldn't you?
But how about an Aerospace Regiment (54 fighters?)
Or the double-strength (36 fighter) Wings actually employed by the Great Houses (as of the FMs?)
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-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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