Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6322
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Diomedes Class Destroyer
#36064 - 08/13/02 05:21 PM (63.173.170.90)
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code:
Class/Model/Name: Diomedes Class Destroyer
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2308
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 410,000 tons
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:
2 Barracuda
30 Large Pulse Laser
18 Large Laser
4 NAC/10
4 NL35
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Diomedes Class Destroyer
Mass: 410,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 98,400.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 9) 185,525.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4) 50.00
Structural Integrity: 79 32,390.00
Total Heat Sinks: 792 Single 304.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 898.00
Bridge, Controls, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1,025.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (226 days supply) 201.00
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (696 total armor pts) 648.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 128
Fore-Left/Right: 116/116
Aft-Left/Right: 116/116
Aft: 104
Cargo:
Bay 1: Small Craft (4) with 2 doors 800.00
Fighters (6) with 6 doors 900.00
Bay 2: Cargo (1) with 1 door 4,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 5: (150-meter diameter) 500.00
Life Boats: 13 (7 tons each) 91.00
Escape Pods: 13 (7 tons each) 91.00
Crew and Passengers:
25 Officers (25 minimum) 250.00
103 Crew (102 minimum) 721.00
18 Gunners (18 minimum) 126.00
32 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Barracuda(1000 msls) Nose 4 4 4 4 20 30,180.00
10 Large Pulse Laser Nose 9(90) 9(90) -- -- 100 70.00
4 Large Laser FL/R 3(32) 3(32) -- -- 64 40.00
1 NAC/10(1000 rounds) FL/R 10 10 10 -- 60 4,400.00
10 Large Pulse Laser FL/R 9(90) 9(90) -- -- 200 140.00
2 Large Laser L/RBS 2(16) 2(16) -- -- 32 20.00
1 NAC/10(1000 rounds) L/RBS 10 10 10 -- 60 4,400.00
2 Large Laser AL/R 2(16) 2(16) -- -- 32 20.00
2 NL35 AL/R 7 7 7 -- 208 2,800.00
2 Large Laser Aft 2(16) 2(16) -- -- 16 10.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (10.00%) 41,000.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 792 410,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 1,957,117,040 C-Bills
Battle Value: 37,758
Cost per BV: 51,833.18
Weapon Value: 38,619 (Ratio = 1.02)
Damage Factors: SRV = 934; MRV = 883; LRV = 419; ERV = 162
BattleForce2: Not applicable
The Diomedes Class Destroyer was one of the last ships to be laid done for the Terran Alliance.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6322
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37100 - 08/20/02 02:09 PM (63.173.170.184)
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Comments????
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Countergod
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 484
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37103 - 08/20/02 02:22 PM (128.165.156.80)
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I like the concept, but a few little sticking points:
1. For a destroyer, don't you think the weapons and (perhaps) armor are a tad light? (ofcourse you are talking to a guy devoted to the lyran motto of "brute strength over finesse but I do have to compare it to the Fox)
2. why weren't double heatsinks used?
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***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck 
Maj. NevLord Madman
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37105 - 08/20/02 02:31 PM (12.78.119.188)
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Ah...Terran Alliance, hence the huge broadsides. 
I LIKE the price tag. This is what you'd use to shoot up pirate dropships and giggle as their fighters ran out of fuel, so very very far from base...
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Countergod
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 484
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37107 - 08/20/02 02:34 PM (128.165.156.80)
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one more thing. I am not a big fan of missiles because of thier low damage to tonnage ratio. for a ship this small, you might consider replacing them with more NAC's or a HNGause and more anti-fighter weapons
--------------------
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37109 - 08/20/02 02:36 PM (12.78.119.188)
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I can field those questions.
Notice when the ship was built- it's literally a first generation warship built in 2308, about 300-400 years before double strength heat sinks were available.
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37111 - 08/20/02 02:39 PM (12.78.119.188)
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As a matter of fact, capital missiles compare well with other capital weapons for damage per ton.
A 250-ton AR-10 can fire 50-ton Killer Whale missiles. That's 300 tons for 4 capital points of damage, or 1 capital point per 75 tons. In comparison, the 3000-ton Heavy Naval PPC does 15 points of damage, or 1 capital point per 200 tons.
For several shots, capital missiles are fairly effective capital weapons. A Killer Whale is also a very mean anti-fighter weapon. Many medium and light fighters will not appreciate 40 points of damage to one location.
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Countergod
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 484
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37112 - 08/20/02 02:40 PM (128.165.156.80)
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Okay, I missed the Terran alliance part (goes to show what happens when you don't read the whole thing ) In that case, were barracuda's invented then? I was under the impression that they were an invention of the Terran Hegemony
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***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37113 - 08/20/02 02:40 PM (12.78.119.188)
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Comments...well, puce. I think they would look nice in puce, maybe with peach trim.
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37114 - 08/20/02 02:41 PM (12.78.119.188)
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I've never seen creation dates for capital weapons.
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Countergod
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 484
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37115 - 08/20/02 02:43 PM (128.165.156.80)
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yes, but unless you mount (IMHO) at least 50 shots per weapon, you aren't using the full potential of the weapon. and with those tonnages, why not go 250 tons more (I believe the AR-10 is 250 tons, right?) and get the HNPPC?
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***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman
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Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
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FIFTY SHOTS PER WEAPON?
#37119 - 08/20/02 02:54 PM (4.35.174.250)
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Why in the world would you need that many?
Especially when standard AT2 weapons need only 10 rounds of ammo to fire an infinite number of times. 
Since it's all AT2 requires, I often fit missile launchers with only ten rounds. Won't last long in a prolonged firefight, but (then again) there's no such thing in AT2.
But 750 tons ain't too bad for a 6 point Naval Extreme Range weapon.
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-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37121 - 08/20/02 02:59 PM (4.35.174.250)
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It should be noted that AT2 specifies a 10-shot minimum ammo load for all weapons, thus the AR-10 you describe would have to be at least 750 tons. Still not a bad comparison against a 3000 ton HNPPC.
But the more ammo you load, the less efficient it gets, by massive fractions, since the missiles are so large.
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-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Countergod
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 484
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Re: FIFTY SHOTS PER WEAPON?
#37122 - 08/20/02 03:01 PM (128.165.156.80)
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1st off, I thought it was 4. Also, I always consider prolonged battles and campaigns when designing units for Batttletech. I do alot of senario's with my friends where we have a set BV for invasion/defending a planet and we get X BV of reenforcements after time Y. And besides, I have run out of AC ammo with an Atlas and Enforcer (3025 ofcourse ) more times than I can count. On mechs, 10 is the BARE minimum, but on warships, who mass in the hundred's of thousands of tons, I find that 50 is not too much to ask for a gun.
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***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6322
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37132 - 08/20/02 04:12 PM (63.173.170.191)
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The AR-10 is still 250 tons for the launcher the ammo adds to the weight, but is still a seperate weight.
The killer on any ship is the damn Fire Control System weights...those really cut into thing. 
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
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50's still too many.
#37133 - 08/20/02 04:14 PM (4.35.174.250)
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If you've fired 50 rounds from any single weapon, your ship's been destroyed five times over, on the average. For extended campaigns, store reloads for your magazines in your cargo hold, or ship them in from elsewhere.
No need to carry that many missiles for one fight.
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-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6322
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37134 - 08/20/02 04:15 PM (63.173.170.191)
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Actually the paint scheme for this was going to forest green but someone found a cheaper paint that was called Enerigizer Pink with white highlights. 
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37170 - 08/21/02 03:35 AM (4.35.174.250)
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>>>The killer on any ship is the damn Fire Control System weights...those really cut into thing. <<<
I have yet to run into this problem.
>>>The AR-10 is still 250 tons for the launcher the ammo adds to the weight, but is still a seperate weight.<<<
Quite. I was simply pointing out the error in Cray's 300 ton estimate for the launcher+ammo.
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-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Nightward
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 05/09/01
Posts: 1701
Loc: Queensland, Australia.
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37248 - 08/21/02 02:27 PM (132.234.251.211)
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Yup. Especially on some of the bigger vessels. On some of myt designs, the F-C weighs near as much as the weapons. The alternative, of course, is to add 100,000+ tons to cargo 
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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NathanKell
Major
Reged: 04/30/01
Posts: 1310
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37504 - 08/23/02 01:04 PM (24.44.238.62)
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Nah, the alternative is to build 100,000-ton ships.
And pack them with 160 anti-fighter weapons. 
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-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
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NathanKell
Major
Reged: 04/30/01
Posts: 1310
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Re: Diomedes Class Destroyer
#37505 - 08/23/02 01:07 PM (24.44.238.62)
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Other than getting rid of the Pulse Lasers (they're Star League tech), it looks like a nice TA-era ship. Maybe you could use NAC/20s...there is precedent, after all.
Waitaminute! One thousand rounds of B'cuda ammo? Don't you think that's a bit much? And it takes up 7.3% of your mass, too. And they mass more than three times all your other weapons combined.
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-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
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