Karagin
09/04/02 03:06 PM
63.173.170.207
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Who here still uses these? If you do how do you use them?
What I am looking for is info how you folks use them, I am not looking for why they are unbalancing or why they should be removed etc...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
09/04/02 03:19 PM
192.195.234.26
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I use them in campaign play. A character might get lucky and find a functional LAM of a standard design (or GM made design) which can potentially be customized as far as is rational. In one case (using optional rifle rules), this lead to a Phoenix Hawk LAM with a claw and a most of its other weaponry in the rifles (one picked before each conflict, the rest in storage on the dropship).
When playing with RPG characters, the need to learn a new set of skills to use the aerospace mode, or move in air-mech mode helped limit how many characters tried to become LAM pilots.
I would also allow use of LAMs in random plotless battles, but my opponents have not yet attempted them.
(my random plotless battles consist of a victim or two designing whatever mech(s) they want, and then I choose an equal number of stock mechs of similar tonnage and tech base)
meow
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Countergod
09/04/02 04:06 PM
160.39.138.242
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I personally find them in no way unfair. However, one rule does apply when my friends and I use them: if we are playing strict BT rules, once they convert, they cannot strafe for 6 turns (turn conversion in Aerotech). LAM mode does not concern us, because we play on as small a map board as possible to reduce actual play time. As for campaigns, we have not had time to play one yet, so I have not tested this yet...
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck 
Maj. NevLord Madman |
Grizzly
09/04/02 05:11 PM
12.108.119.227
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I used a couple once and had them land in the oppositions rear area where they became a harrasing force that pulled some enemy mechs away from the main combat giving me a slight weight advantage which I used to good effect. One LAM made it back to my side of the map, the other was knocked out of combat, but I was able to recover it due to winning the scenario. Unfortuneatly I haven't been able to play for about three months due to work. Gotta love tourist season at an amusement park for sucking your free time up due to long hours. Oh well we are closed during the week now and I hope to have a real life soon! 
"I am but mad north-northwest, when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw" Hamlet
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Nightward
09/04/02 05:28 PM
132.234.251.211
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I didn't find them to be that bad. Mind you, I was in my Dire Wolf "Vogeljaeger" Configuration at the time (it's packed out with LB cannon, Pulse Lasers, and Streak SRMs).
With the advent of Clan and the newer Inner Sphere technology, LAMs probably wouldn't be all that unbalanced. But against 3025-Era technology? Yes. I can totally understand why they were unbalanced.
Anyway, my opponent simply converted to irMech mode and spent his time hopping around, until I smacked him senseless with my buckshot ammo 
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
09/04/02 05:43 PM
63.173.170.116
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Uhmm which part of leaving out the comments on the balance or not issue with LAMS did you miss? 
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
09/05/02 12:21 AM
132.234.251.211
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I dunno. Maybe I sort of thought that you wanted to know how my opponent used them, how I countered them, and how I felt about them in general. Wasn't that what you wanted?
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
09/05/02 01:49 AM
63.173.170.193
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No, I didn't want the negative thoughts...those are easy enough to see...what I was looking for was HOW they are used...offering counter tactics are good, complaing is not...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
09/05/02 02:29 AM
216.14.192.226
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WoB's counter tactics have worked wonders I found... nuke the dodgey things 
Greyslayer
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Karagin
09/05/02 11:09 AM
63.173.170.83
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groan....why play then?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Acolyte
09/05/02 04:38 PM
142.179.27.248
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Well...... I'm a dyed in the wool old style 3025 player and fan of all the unseen, so I do. And I don't think they should be removed, at least not from the universe.
As to how they are used.
Tactical.
Bounce around like a flea on a crack addict. AirMech mode allows you to jump enough to get a +5 modifier every turn. You'll need a good pilot 'cause you'll be getting a +3 penalty to fire back. That 2mp take off and 2mp landing also present an interesting tactic. You don't have to land. This means you can choose to land and have cover or be three levels over the terrain below, allowing you to nullify the target's cover most times. The fact that you don't gain heat from jumping means that you can fire you're energy weapons with impunity.
Stratigic.
No unit is so good at keeping forces tied down. A couple of LAM's behind the lines is very worrying. And if you need to pull them away, no other unit can withdraw so easily. They can fly away and go to ground if AeroSpace is called in. You can also call them away from one front to do strafing runs on anouther.
All 'Mechs can land on planet from space with coccoons and booster packs, but LAM's can launch from space, land on planet, do their objective, take off and dock back with the DropShip. Those DropShips never have to land.
LAM's are also the only vehicle that can be transported in a 'Mech bay, a small craft bay, an AeroSpace Figther bay or even a vehicle bay (although that's a bit of a waste).
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Nightward
09/05/02 05:02 PM
132.234.251.211
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*Sigh*
Read the post again, Karagin. I did not complain; I had one line of the post dedicated to game balance, and it was part of my opinion on how I felt about the LAMs.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Greyslayer
09/05/02 07:10 PM
63.12.147.166
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Thats what I think of LAMs as well ... why play then?
I can easily take them out of the game in level 3 play, but the tactics required are defensive. So just fielding one gives a player the advantage even if he doesn't really use it.
The best way to deal with LAMs in level 2 is either ambush or Arrow IV.
Greyslayer
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Karagin
01/17/07 12:30 PM
70.123.166.36
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Given that I have seen new stuff from folks on LAMs...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NewPharoah_Max
01/17/07 02:31 PM
207.160.205.13
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Karagin, please use this link's rules (my advanced rules and link to official rules) for LAMs:
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/143121/an/0/page/0#143121
and read the information for my Balancer LAM.
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/142766/an/0/page/0#142766
Greetings to you too.
Edited by NewPharoah_Max (01/17/07 02:46 PM)
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Karagin
01/17/07 02:55 PM
70.123.166.36
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I have read them, hence the reason I pushed this back to the current time frame...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NewPharoah_Max
01/18/07 06:26 PM
207.160.205.13
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So shall Randall Bills use them or not?
Greetings to you too.
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Karagin
01/18/07 07:45 PM
70.123.166.36
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Odds are he won't. Given how they have tried very hard to keep anything related to Robotech out of the game since the lawsuit.
But you never know they may bring them back in so way or another.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Fang
01/18/07 08:52 PM
65.82.104.120
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I wish they would bring back some canon LAMs, or else create new canon LAMs. True, with the lvl three rules, one can just create and use custom LAMs, but having at least a couple of canon LAMs lends more credence to the design it self.
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
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Karagin
01/18/07 11:59 PM
70.123.166.36
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The side effect is that with LAMs you have the munchkins dream killer mech. Picture this, a mech that can jump and get a bonus for it x3, has no heat issues, like any munchkin mech has that issue, thus can alpha strike every turn, and has pulse/targ combo and is made using Clan tech...that is called ubalanced. And I have seen folks refuse to play in games with LAMs being used.
My group allows them, since they aren't all the great as original written and don't have much as far as weapons and armor, no more then their non-transformable counterparts.
The rules out of the THB weren't bad ones they just put the LAMs out of the mainstream game and thus ended their life cycle. And with the lawsuit, Nystul and FASA as whole, felt that they were to Robotechish and thus were dead. Right or wrong good or bad that was the call made.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Fang
01/19/07 10:21 AM
65.82.104.120
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Clans would never use LAMs. Doesn't really fit into their culture. The Nova Cats dismantled the last known working LAM factory on Irece. Canon LAMs are dead,true, but the rules still exist to use LAMs, and make your own.
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
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NewPharoah_Max
01/19/07 11:34 AM
207.160.205.13
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Karagin, we've been over this before. Facts, ideas, and methods of operation (LAMs and how they transform) cannot be copyrighted.
Greetings to you too.
Edited by NewPharoah_Max (01/19/07 03:53 PM)
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Seras
01/19/07 11:48 AM
209.56.12.253
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...just so i don't feel so stupid anymore, when u say LAMs, are u talking about Land-Air Mechs, or something else?
-Seras
Lord of Pokemon
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Toontje
01/19/07 12:44 PM
88.159.68.238
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He is..
Rather to blow up, then.
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Karagin
01/19/07 08:18 PM
70.123.166.36
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Land air mechs...
Not laser antimissile syste..
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/19/07 08:22 PM
70.123.166.36
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Yes they can. Harmony Gold at one time owned the Robotech and the Transformable Veritechs which FASA used for the LAMs.
Different SciFi shows can have similar things, ie Gobots vs Transformers and BT vs Robotech, but in the end for the BT universe TPTB had prior to the lawsuit already turned LAMs into an opintional level 3 item.
Then with the Lawsuit, TPTB wrote LAMs out with the desturction of the last factory in Ireece.
If you want to use LAMs then do so, but I don't think you can get Randal to bring them, hell we have better chance of getting them to drop the Jihad storyline before they bring back LAMs.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NewPharoah_Max
01/20/07 12:55 PM
207.160.205.13
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Then why does the US Copyright Office webpage say they can't?
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wnp
Greetings to you too.
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Karagin
01/20/07 01:46 PM
70.123.166.36
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The name LAM no it's not unusable, BUT the artwork, the name airmech and things like that are.
Also given that FASA didn't have the money or the right people to fight off HG, they went and gutted the game of anything that could give cause to be sued.
Also given how unbalancing LAMs can be and how easy it is to munch them out is another set of reasons that they are gone.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Fang
01/21/07 04:20 PM
65.82.104.120
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The images are Copyrigthed by Harmony, cause they sued fasa into the toilet over it. The concept can not be. therefore, we can still have land-air mechs, but they can not use the images from robotech as they once did. LAMs are not GONE! you can still use them according to the rules. There are no canon designs, though, for the afore mentioned reasons.
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
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Karagin
01/21/07 05:49 PM
70.123.166.36
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Never said LAMs couldn't be used, I said they would never be allowed back in canon Battletech.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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