Prince_of_Darkness
10/28/08 12:31 PM
205.202.120.139
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Perhaps I will charge $100 per aerofighter. And $500 per Clan unit used.
..That will just loose you every player, and probably most of your friends, too.
Please- he probably doesn;t even have any.
Why else would he resurrect a long-dead thread?
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Christopher_Perkins
10/28/08 09:12 PM
24.125.201.167
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The name LAM no it's not unusable
Check, The Name Land-Air Mech and its Acronym LAM is a BattleTech Creation
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BUT the artwork
Check, the Artwork was the Creation of Studio Nue and liscenced by Harmony Gold in the United States for Translation and Marketing of the Anime (but neither they Nor FASA had the rights to use the Artwork in an Entirely new Universe... RoboTech is different from SDF Macross, SDF Southern Cross, and Mosepeda)
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the name airmech and things like that are.
False, The Name AirMech was the Creation of FASA, the Three Mode (Mecha, Hybrid, Fighter) vehicle is a staple of Anime, and, as such, no Intellectual Property can claim to own the Concept.
The Only thing that FASA Could NOT use was the Artwork... and the Names "VeriTech", "Gerwalk" etc. that were used in the original Anime and Harmony Gold's Distortion of the Same.
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Also given that FASA didn't have the money or the right people to fight off HG, they went and gutted the game of anything that could give cause to be sued.
partially right... Harmony Gold didnt have the scratch or the right people to Fight off FASA after FASA went after them for infringing on the TimberWolf mech for the ExoSquad Cartoon....
So Harmony Gold went running to Playmates and got their help...
The Mutually Assured Destruction pact was enough that FASA went running scared from a lot of things that they should have kept active... (IOW Project Phoenix should have taken place in 1996's Revised TRO's)
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Also given how unbalancing LAMs can be and how easy it is to munch them out is another set of reasons that they are gone.
The only game that LAMs unbalance is Double Blind.
They Suck as Fighters, & BattleMechs, and beyond that make good raiders...
The rules as they are written have some good balancing Factors...
The Problem is that not many people try to undferstand the LAM rules and thus allow themselves to be taken advantage of by people who (benefit of doubt) do not understand the rules themselves... or (worse) just do not care what the real rules are.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Christopher_Perkins
10/28/08 09:20 PM
24.125.201.167
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NewType...
Total Warfare is TOURNAMENT LEGAL ONLY UNITS and TOURNAMENT LEGAL GAME PLAY RULES
LAMs were NEVER Tournament Legal
Tech Manual is the Construction rules for these Tournament Legal Units
Tactical Operations Manual is the Advanced rules supplement for Equipment that is either in production or in the Experimental stage in 3067... LAMs were out of production in 3054 and were museum Pieces in 3067... so they are No longer part of the Core. This is also the Place for Advanced Game Play Rules such as Artillery (something else that you need to study)
Your arguement would have much better standing if you would STOP citing the TOURNAMENT LEGAL book as being deficient for not having something that No one claims should be Tournament Legal
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Newtype
10/31/08 11:20 AM
207.160.205.13
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I'd like for LAMs to become tournament legal. Those that don't want LAMs tournament legal will have to pay money (alot of money) to be accepted at tournaments I run. I and many others intend to have LAM rules in a revised edition of TW.
Edited by Newtype (10/31/08 12:50 PM)
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Lafeel
10/31/08 02:19 PM
157.157.73.13
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I'd like for LAMs to become tournament legal. Those that don't want LAMs tournament legal will have to pay money (alot of money) to be accepted at tournaments I run. I and many others intend to have LAM rules in a revised edition of TW.
Don't hold your breath, as that's probably not going to happen, no matter how much you beg Catalyst to do just that.
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Christopher_Perkins
11/04/08 03:28 AM
24.125.201.167
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1: Any Tournaments that you run would have no Official Standing. The Only Tournaments that matter are run by the Commandos (or what ever the Official BattleTech Demonstrator Team are known as under Catalyst), (and possibly any of the Writers & Developers that are not members of the Demonstrator Team).
2: Revising Total Warfare & Tech Manual and releasing it would be costly in time & Effort, and Legal Fees
3: Tournaments in BattleTech have always used the LEAST & EASIEST of the rules... they have never fully represented the BattleTech universe at its fullest. This remains the same.
Frankly, do not feel constrained by what is published in Tech Manual and Total Warfare...
if you want the full rules, you need at least the 6 books of the core, and what ever tertiary volumes have rules.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Newtype
11/04/08 06:08 PM
207.160.205.13
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Ah but you're forgetting about my remote influencing abilities. My abilities enabled several beneficial rule changes that appeared in TW most notably TAG equipped units being able to shoot weapons & use TAG in the same turn. TW is going to be revised. There are several rules in TW that have to be clarified.
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MacLeod
11/04/08 06:17 PM
169.233.108.49
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TW is going to be revised. There are several rules in TW that have to be clarified.
Which is what FAQs are for.
Don't feed the troll.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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Newtype
11/04/08 06:20 PM
207.160.205.13
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MacLeod, you're just frustrated because my ideas for TW are coming forth more and more each day.
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Lafeel
11/04/08 06:23 PM
157.157.73.13
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MacLeod, you're just frustrated because my ideas for TW are coming forth more and more each day.
I doubt you can really call it that when you are the only one who's even remotely considering them.
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Newtype
11/04/08 06:35 PM
207.160.205.13
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Lafeel, oh really? I was the first to call for TAG equipped units to be allowed to use their weapons in the same turn. In TW that's a rule.
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Christopher_Perkins
11/04/08 08:19 PM
24.125.201.167
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Lafeel, oh really? I was the first to call for TAG equipped units to be allowed to use their weapons in the same turn. In TW that's a rule.
NewType... the Rules in Total Warfare and Tactical Operations Manual are rules because Catalyst Game Labs said they are...
Whither or not they beta tested and then canonized rules similar to the ones that you used in your gaming group is irrelevant.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Zandel_Corrin
11/04/08 10:11 PM
123.2.140.247
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He has a point there NewType....
I've had that happen alot myself.... my own house rules or ideas being picked up by the game at some later stage.
But that doesn't mean that i've effected what the game designers think would be good rules....
They make up there own minds based on whatever they see fit.... now getting back to the point.
I have used LAMS before... there unique abilities make them well suited for a hit and run match where you can use lighter units to take out much larger and better armed ones..... I've used spiders for the same purpose tho and they seem to do just about as well (i'm quite partial to the Pulse Laser varient fo this use.... great for firing on the run (or jump)... good times)
As for the whole Tournament vs non-Tournament rules debate.... i'd like to point out that nowhere in any of the books does it say "These are Tournament rules" it says that they're "Suitable to be used as Tournament rules".
That means that they CAN be used as tournament rules and in fact may be recomended but the actual rules of ANY and ALL tournaments are subject to the body running the tournament.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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MacLeod
11/04/08 11:41 PM
24.6.94.252
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Again, like I said, don't feed the troll. He isn't listening to anything we're saying, and even went as far to call me "frustrated."
I suppose I'm frustrated in as much as this is the first time I've posted on this site in a couple years, and this guy's shenanigans are what drag me out of retirement.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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Karagin
11/05/08 12:31 AM
72.178.75.99
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Hey he got banned from Heavy Metal Pro for this same kind of stuff...guess he's not going to change...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/05/08 07:51 PM
205.202.120.139
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MacLeod, you're just frustrated because my ideas for TW are coming forth more and more each day.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/05/08 09:51 PM
123.2.140.247
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LOL love the pic.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Newtype
11/09/08 01:48 PM
75.52.182.110
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You've certainly not conviced me (a long standing Robotech, Macross, and Transformes fan) to agree with your line of thought.
Lafeel, I'm referring to those who are staunchly ardently requesting now accepting (sarna?) LAM rules to be republished, not those who indicate they once in a while want LAM rules republished.
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/09/08 05:57 PM
205.202.120.139
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Lafeel, I'm referring to those who are staunchly ardently requesting now accepting (sarna?) LAM rules to be republished, not those who indicate they once in a while want LAM rules republished.
Yeah, all 2 of them.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/09/08 06:07 PM
123.2.140.247
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You've certainly not conviced me (a long standing Robotech, Macross, and Transformes fan) to agree with your line of thought.
Lafeel, I'm referring to those who are staunchly ardently requesting now accepting (sarna?) LAM rules to be republished, not those who indicate they once in a while want LAM rules republished.
... 
 Newtype >>> 
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Lafeel
11/09/08 06:10 PM
157.157.106.160
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You've certainly not conviced me (a long standing Robotech, Macross, and Transformes fan) to agree with your line of thought.
Lafeel, I'm referring to those who are staunchly ardently requesting now accepting (sarna?) LAM rules to be republished, not those who indicate they once in a while want LAM rules republished.
Says a lot that you aren't convincing me though, doesn't it?
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/10/08 01:04 AM
205.202.120.139
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You've certainly not conviced me (a long standing Robotech, Macross, and Transformes fan) to agree with your line of thought.
Lafeel, I'm referring to those who are staunchly ardently requesting now accepting (sarna?) LAM rules to be republished, not those who indicate they once in a while want LAM rules republished.
This trolling is beginning to bore me.
Let's liven it up a little!
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Fang
11/14/08 03:35 PM
12.54.128.7
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Ok, now can we let this thread return to the land of the dead?
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
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Newtype
11/15/08 01:00 PM
207.160.205.13
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I say RI those that type the next revised edition of TW to omit the random unit tables to make room for updated & republished LAM rules. Why would anyone care to use random unit tables anyways? Just pick units you want.
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Christopher_Perkins
11/15/08 09:32 PM
76.104.32.151
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More people use the Random Unit Tables for unit generation and once off games than use the Land-Air Mech
Seriously, in the BattleTech Universe you do not always get to pick the equipment that you are issued.
Also, you seam to be unable to comprehend the fact that Total Warfare is for the Standard Rules of BattleTech Play. This Basic level of play is also known as the Tournament Legal Rules Set.
Land Air Mechs were Never Tournament Legal Units, Even before the Numbered Rules Level System was Instituted in Tactical HandBook.
Classic BattleTech Boxed Set - Basic Game Play Rules
Total Warfare - Standard Game Play Rules (also Tournament Legal Game Play Rules)
Tech Manual - Construction Rules for Standard Rules / Tournament Legal Equipment
Tactical Operations Manual - Advanced Game Play Rules (Non-Tournament Game Play Rules)
-------------------------------- Advanced Rules Equipment (Equipment that is not Tournament Legal that is in production in the BattleTech Universe)
-------------------------------- Experimental Equipment (Equipment that both not Tournament Legal and is either in the prototype stage of development or has fallen out of production in the BattleTech Universe.)
that is on the Tactical Level.
Strategic Operations Manual - Advanced Game Play Rules (Non-Tournament Game Play Rules)
-------------------------------- Advanced Rules Equipment
-------------------------------- Experimental Equipment
that is on the Strategic Level.
Interstellar Operations Manual - Advanced Game Play Rules (Non-Tournament Game Play Rules)
-------------------------------- Advanced Rules Equipment
-------------------------------- Experimental Equipment
that is on the Interstellar Level.
CBT RPG 4th Edition (Perhaps Finally MechWarrior 4th Edition)
if there is ANY core book that the Land Air Mechs would have belonged in... it is the TACTICAL OPERATIONS MANUAL and NOT Total Warfare... Constantly Saying "Total Warfare" when you mean "the New Core" is an Imprecision that makes you look... well... off...
and If you are Demanding what it looks like you are saying when you cite Total WarFare, that they actually Put Land Air Mechs in the Standard / Tournament Legal Only Rules book... well... thats even more ... off... than in the first instance - Land Air Mechs are TOO Complex for the Standard, Tournament Legal Rules...
And the Potential for their Misuse (by Duplicitous individuals that do not care if they use them by the rules ) or Accidental Misuse has been demonstrated almost since their introduction
LAM's Should have been in the New Core Books... (and they will be republished in one of the Historicals)
But they have no place in the Standard / Tournament Legal Rules.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/16/08 02:49 AM
205.202.120.139
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Ok, now can we let this thread return to the land of the dead?
Only if Newtype lets us.
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Newtype
11/16/08 01:11 PM
75.52.182.110
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More people use the Random Unit Tables for unit generation and once off games than use the Land-Air Mech
How do you know this to be fact. I don't recall the entire CBT community being polled.
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Seriously, in the BattleTech Universe you do not always get to pick the equipment that you are issued.
Depends on who GMs games you play.
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Also, you seam to be unable to comprehend the fact that Total Warfare is for the Standard Rules of BattleTech Play. This Basic level of play is also known as the Tournament Legal Rules Set. Land Air Mechs were Never Tournament Legal Units, Even before the Numbered Rules Level System was Instituted in Tactical HandBook.
Which is why I'm RIing Randall Bills to have LAMs be in a revised edition of TW.
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But they have no place in the Standard / Tournament Legal Rules.
I believe they do and so do others.
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Christopher_Perkins
11/16/08 05:14 PM
76.104.32.151
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More people use the Random Unit Tables for unit generation and once off games than use the Land-Air Mech
How do you know this to be fact. I don't recall the entire CBT community being polled.
Because the Random Unit Tables have been in Every Boxed Set since 2nd Edition, Every Omnibus Volume since BattleTech Manual: The Rules of Warfare, and Every House Specific Book since the Field Manual Series, and Every BattleTech RPG since 1st Edition.
The Randon Unit Tables are the direct source for the BattleMechs that Faction Players can choose from for Every Martial Olympiad ever since the first list was Compiled from Fluff and the Random Unit Tables by Peter Lacassie and was eventually Published in Combat Operations.
Land Air Mechs, have been only in
AeroTech 1st Edition
BattleTech Manual: the Rules of Warfare
BattleTech Compendium
Tactical Handbook
And, They were Never Tournament Legal, not even before the Rules Level System was Instituted.
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Seriously, in the BattleTech Universe you do not always get to pick the equipment that you are issued.
Depends on who GMs games you play.
Who GM's the Games is Irrelevant... I specificly said "the Universe", not "the Games"
The Only People in the BattleTech universe that get to choose the Units that they drive are those that are rich enough to Buy their Own units, and even then do not always get to Choose what they are Allowed to buy.
Most of the time the Mechwarrior is issued a BattleMech by the Unit's Procurement Group, or, Even worse, the House's Procurement Group and then Issued to the Unit, then the Unit Issues the BattleMech to the Mech Warrior.
So the Random Unit Tables better reflect the chances that 98% of the mechwarriors have.
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Also, you seam to be unable to comprehend the fact that Total Warfare is for the Standard Rules of BattleTech Play. This Basic level of play is also known as the Tournament Legal Rules Set. Land Air Mechs were Never Tournament Legal Units, Even before the Numbered Rules Level System was Instituted in Tactical HandBook.
Which is why I'm RIing Randall Bills to have LAMs be in a revised edition of TW.
Fine, go do that...
Do not Expect it to have any effect
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But they have no place in the Standard / Tournament Legal Rules.
I believe they do and so do others.
Who Believes that Land Air Mechs belong in Tournament Games?
Standard / Tournament Rules are the Easiest rules to play by that will give you a feel for the universe... Nothing too Complex, Nothing too Time Consuming, and Nothing that not a lot of People will have had experience in using.
LAM's, Fire, Artillery, Mines, and a lot of other things in Tactical Operations Manual have no place being in Tournament's These rules are so Complicated...
Heck, the Original MOVEMENT rules were too complicated for tournaments (look in BattleTech 2nd Edition... and compare the movement rules in 2nd Edition to the Movement Rules from Total Warfare before you respond to that point)... I just home that when i look at the movement section of Tactical Operations Manual there are movement rules that allow for the original way of movement that left you able to expend just enough movement to enter a hex and move along a level from one hex to another. Like was in the original Rules...
But Yes, the old way was too complex for tournaments
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Lafeel
11/16/08 05:24 PM
157.157.106.160
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Ok, now can we let this thread return to the land of the dead?
Easy, just stop replying to chip.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/16/08 05:51 PM
123.2.140.247
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Oh.... the troll is back.... shame...
BTW the RIing he's so stuck on..... WTF IS THAT?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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