Karagin
10/28/02 08:46 PM
68.21.149.135
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Have a bigger role in BT universe then they do?
Should their attacks be more common then they are?
Ideas or thoughts?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
10/28/02 09:38 PM
63.12.147.208
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Well considering most information in the Btech universe rather revolves around a 'space opera' rather than a 'fleshed out' universe itself the true danger posed by pirates and raiders are never revealed. On the old actions tables for when a fortnightly actions happens pirate or raiders are very common for a mercenary player (there is no difference to which type of planet you are on or where which just shows the lack of fleshing out they did do).
It was more important to them to have a space opera than a well made universe, I have spent plenty of time trying to fix this locally but because of later 'canon' errors later in the period you would have to almost ignore everything you have done in the earlier periods to get anything to fit.
Greyslayer .... bloody stupid soaps.
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Nightward
10/30/02 04:47 PM
132.234.251.211
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The other thing, too, is that pirate are really only a threat to the Periphery. Pirates know that the Great Houses have the resources and military might to track them down and make them unhappy, so they avoid the Great Houses. Since everything in the BT universe has focused on the Great Houses (with a few excursions into the Periphery), and particularly on worlds deep within the Inner Sphere, such as Tharkad, New Avalon, Sian, and so on, the greatest danger is with the neighbouring houses' military than with any pirate activity.
That being said, Pirates have been popular in source material. The Twenty Year Update talks about pirate activity and gives some unit details. I'd imagine they would also have been popular in FM: Periphery. They even got a custom-designed 'Mech in TR: 3067 ( the Brigand, IIRC).
But as I said, the focus has been on the five Great Houses. The only time we ever really heard about pirates was in the Blood of Kerensky, where the Kell Housnds went bandit-hunting.
Finally, the other thing is what Pirates do. I really doubt that BT pirates would be Robin Hood types. So odds are that the themes and activities of a pirate-based sourcebook or novel would not be well-liked nor recieved.
But that's all just IMO.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
10/30/02 04:57 PM
68.21.149.211
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Actually pirates get a lot of mention in canon material, they see the light of day in the original rules booklet as part of the Bandit Kingdoms...and they are all over the House Books and Original Periphery Book, as well as getting mention in MW 1st edtion. Plus they are some mention of them in the GDL books and in the Warrior Triology.
All of this comes up long before the Bloody of Kerensky books even show up...
So while they may not be raiding the core systems of the Houses, areas like the Chaos March and the hinterland border regions would be fair game for them.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
10/31/02 07:07 AM
64.83.29.242
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Hmm. I've always been dubious of interstellar pirates in BT. Jumpships are high-maintenance, high-tech critters, as are the mechs that pirates favor. Further, the common targets seem to be lame, low value, high bulk things like food and water. Shouldn't the pirates be after shipyards and mech factories? In short: I think their role should be reduced.
But that's me. YMMV.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Greyslayer
10/31/02 09:08 AM
216.14.192.226
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What classifies a unit as a 'pirate' is a very loose term. Pirates are anything from rougue mercenary units to entire periphery states depending on from the perspective (a house classes a periphery state as a pirate state).
It is also a fairly common occurance for merchants to be paid by pirates for transportation from point to point. This can rake in alot more income for a merchant that just transporting goods (of course at a increase risk of reprisals if discovered).
Food and water is probably not the most common though it is something that can be stolen. Slaves,mechanical parts and refined metals are common as well. It really depends on the requirements of the pirate's base and so on.
On maintenence though mechs effectively cost less to maintain than a vehicle and if the pirate commander is smart or lucky most of his mechs will have hands so that it can do a smash and grab of crates or even large machinery components (or mech weapons). The problem facing pirates imho when using mechs is the actual knowledge and parts to keep the mechs repaired (less knowledge needed to repair a vehicle but still requires parts).
Considering how many planets there are in the universe and how vulnerable the near-periphery planets are to attack by even a small force then I would say pirates raids would be rife.
Greyslayer
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Cray
10/31/02 09:52 AM
64.83.29.242
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In reply to:
On maintenence though mechs effectively cost less to maintain than a vehicle and if the pirate commander is smart or lucky most of his mechs will have hands so that it can do a smash and grab of crates or even large machinery components (or mech weapons).
Mech parts do not grow on trees - they "grow" on a handful of planets and are found in minimal numbers elsewhere, to the point of being non-existant on many Periphery planets.
Vehicles may cost more, but their parts can be built and found much more widely. A small community can cast a road wheel for a tank or an engine block. The same cannot be said for a mech's computers, myomers, or fusion engine.
In reply to:
Considering how many planets there are in the universe
And how few jumpships are...
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Greyslayer
10/31/02 10:18 AM
216.14.192.226
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'The same cannot be said for a mech's computers, myomers, or fusion engine.'
These are not necessarily items which will fail. often. Actuators are in fact the more likely to fail and be harder to replace (due to weight restrictions on the actuators and so on). Most examples of pirate facilities have situations where ICE units are virtually useless compared to a fusion unit (being harder to find a pirate if they live on what is a lifeless ball compared to a habitable planet.
'And how few jumpships are...'
They gave a rough estimate. From all intents and purposes they didn't include jumpships from outside the IS. Also the numbers of jumpships were not depreciating (no-one attacked jumpships so it was only mechcanical failure or jump error). Considering it is usually months between attacked by the same pirate group.
Also the number of jumpships given was a Comstar estimate no inclusion was probably entered in for their own jumpships or those under their employ (such as the kurita-steiner border pirates that comstar funded).
Greyslayer
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Karagin
10/31/02 12:55 PM
68.21.149.88
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Spare parts come in all shapes and sizes...who said their mechs were in top notch shape?
I picture them more with the bailing wire and bubblegum theory of repairs. Plus you can always raid the local milita unit for spare parts or new ( and I use that term lossely) mechs.
As for jumpships...no I don't see them going after those...more like attacking the merchant drop ships that are heading into a planet...sorta like the Raiders in B5 and Star Trek.
As for the water and food, those can be resold and on some worlds you could get a pretty good amount of money for them since water is hard to find on a lot of the planets and food is something everyone needs more of.
So everything short of the kitchen sink and sometimes that, are worth the effort to steal for a pirate.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
10/31/02 04:21 PM
132.234.251.211
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I have not read some of the older novels, includoing the first two of the Warrior series, though I did (five or six years ago, now) read the GDL series. Sometimes the fine details slip my mind. The overarching plot line of the GDL books was always the threat of the Draconis Combine, though, so that's who I more remember them fighting. IIRC, the bandit raiders who attacked on Trellwan were sponsored by someone from the Draconis Combine (Ricol? The Red Duke? My memories are a little fuzzy on the point...)
As I said in my post, "Pirates have been popular in source material. The Twenty Year Update talks about pirate activity and gives some unit details. I'd imagine they would also have been popular in FM: Periphery. They even got a custom-designed 'Mech in TR: 3067 ( the Brigand, IIRC)."
They are there. We know they are there. But really, what sells products? Some skirmish on a planet nobody's ever heard of, or a series of sweeping battles across the Draconis Combine/Federated Suns border culminating in a series of deep strikes? I'd go the battle between the Great Houses, myself. Larger scope, planets you know of, and a great deal more than some water and food at stake. The bigger, the better. Small-unit battles are interesting, but I find I prefer to fight larger ones- Trinaries or Company-sized biffs where strategy and tactics at least start to have some impact against the luck factor.
Few novels or sourcebooks have focused on areas that are prey to pilots. Even fewer are well-written. Ever seen "By Blood Betrayed"? I firmly believe every copy should be burnt, then flung into deep space for the good of all mankind.
To restate: Periphery (or other) Pirate raids do not sell products. They have a role in BT, but it has not been explored, largely because it does not affect "the bigger picture."
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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NathanKell
10/31/02 06:03 PM
24.44.238.62
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"that are prey to pilots"
NathanKell starts humming "Apprentice to a pirate."
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
11/01/02 08:20 AM
65.129.223.131
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While they maynot sell hundreds of books, the idea that they get amere mention here or there leaves an area that could expolred and used to forward the plots of some of the bigger events along.
Leaving out the best form of "enemy" that can be blamed for anything, is sad...how many times are we going to read about a commando raid or uber-warriors attack a planet only to be defeated by the local milita? There is more to the universe then that, like having a pirate attack in an area that it's not expected...hey it's a lot better then this MWDA line of thinking.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
11/01/02 10:15 AM
216.14.192.226
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Seriously if you combine the total forces all the pirates could field you might find they actually outnumber a house's forces. This in itself should warrant more specific information on pirate activity in books.
I would've purchased a book on pirates in the battletech universe as long as it is better written than FM: Mercs. Any decent GM would also consider something like this a must for even those players that play large house battles could find in a campaign situation pirate raiders attacking their support elements
I class this as a opportunity lost
Greyslayer
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