Revamping BattleTech

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Rockdaddy
11/20/02 01:13 AM
206.102.32.60

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I think it's safe to say that BattleTech has over the years gone from a relatively fast paced game to one that can drag on for hours, even in a simple lance on lance battle. So suppose we were to revamp the game, to spead it up, how could we?

I mean we would want to change the game mechanics so that it was speedier, but not change things like mech construction (as much), how the tactics work, or make it impossible to convert units over to the new system.

How about:

1) Missle Hits. When a missle rack hits, all the missles hit, and all hit in the same location. Artemis gives a -1 firing modifier.

What else?
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
Zwischy
11/20/02 02:36 AM
63.190.0.72

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Here's a time-saver, though it would definitely change how the tactics work in any given game.

I dunno how many people actually play it this way, but the initiative rules state that you are supposed to alternate moving units - the side that lost moves one unit first, then the winning side moves one unit - until everything's been declared (stationary movement counting as a 'move').

Obviously, the intention here is to not make the game completely initiative-based (though I would contend that you can still defend yourself even if you lose initiative), but it obviously slows things down.

It was a huge improvement when they removed the reaction phase alltogether - not that most people played with it, anyhow.
realworldviews
11/20/02 04:09 AM
24.98.65.31

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Reaction Phase???
What's that?

And in using the alternating movement rules all depends on how many people are playing or how many mechs are being used. 1 to 1 movement is fine for lance battles but I usually go with moving an entire lance with anything involving company or larger. Unless of coures your trying to run through a Batallion or Regimental battle. Then all bets are off, it's going to take forever to do those anyways even with moving entire companys at a time.

I do like using alternating movement, it makes losing iniative not as deadly as moving all your mechs at the same time. And it does keep people thinking on stratagy.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
CrayModerator
11/20/02 09:24 AM
64.83.29.242

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In reply to:

I think it's safe to say that BattleTech has over the years gone from a relatively fast paced game to one that can drag on for hours, even in a simple lance on lance battle.



I'd say the opposite has happened since the introduction of DHS. Mechs are no tougher than they were, weaker with XLs, but weapons hit harder, shoot further, are more accurate, and can be fired more often.

I mean, a lance on lance battle of 3025 assault mechs would drag on. A star on star battle of 3067 Clan mechs wouldn't last long. A lance of assault mechs caught by a lance of guided artillery is in a world of [censored]...for a little while.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Bob_Richter
11/20/02 02:54 PM
134.39.196.176

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The most major effect of the present alternating-movement system is that it allows for "movement sinking" where you move pitiful, valuless units (like the hordes of elementals you brought along) first and wait until the other guy has moved most of his units to move the units that matter. I'm actually in favor of removing this for TACTICAL reasons.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Nightward
11/20/02 08:14 PM
132.234.251.211

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Arg. Think about that missile idea for a moment; do you really want to always be hit by every missile from an MRM-40 in which all missiles strike the same location?

It'd help me a lot (Hey, I'm a DCMS player who's addicted to Akumas) but other players might not enjoy it so much.

Personally, I find a game of BT moves fairly fast. Generally speaking, the higher tech base in the game, the quicker it goes, but individual player tactics will have an impact. FASA re-wrote a lot of rules (ie, Reaction Phase, AMS, MASC) to speed things up in the MAster Rules.

Still, if you find your games are slow, here are some ideas to speed them up:

-Initiative: Get 2 decks of standard playing cards. Give each player a card, then get the corresponding card from the other deck. Shuffle them up, then draw a card. That player moves. And so on.

-Limit the movement phase. In a Grandf Melee, we play a 20-second movement phase. Wherever the 'Mech is at the end of 20 seconds is where it stays. This was introduce to counter the infamous Malcom Doughtree (a great player and a good guy, but who had a tendancy to spend 5 minutes contemplating his moves before plonking his units in the most obvious spot anyway).

-Movement Dice. Use of the movement dice to represnt your 'Mech's movement modifiers can really speed things up.

-Line-o-Sightinator. Use a piece of string to determine LoS. Nothing could be easier; it eliminates all the LoS arguments as well.

-Brutality. Allk 'Mechs must fire as many weapons as they can unless they are ammo-based or overheating. We play this in the Melees as well, but you probably do it anyway.

-Maps Choice. Playing on flat, open maps reduces the need for tactical thinking and makes the game shorter and more vicious. Cluttered maps with lots of elevation changes and terrain types tend to slow things down.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Bob_Richter
11/21/02 01:45 PM
134.39.194.88

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>>>I think it's safe to say that BattleTech has over the years gone from a relatively fast paced game to one that can drag on for hours, even in a simple lance on lance battle. <<<

Battletech hasn't changed so much as society has changed around it. In olden days, 'Mechs had thickly armored hides and few weapons (What? The armor was just THAT much more efficient than the weapons. Still is.)

This resulted in slugging matches that lasted minutes in game-time and hours in real-life.

Then again, in 1985, it was perfectly acceptable for a beer-and-pretzels game to TAKE a couple of hours to play.

>>>1) Missle Hits. When a missle rack hits, all the missles hit, and all hit in the same location. Artemis gives a -1 firing modifier.<<<

Talk about drastically altering game balance. Whoo!

the 10-ton LRM-20 has now become an equivalent to the 14-ton AC/20 except...
1) it has about three times the range.
2) it generates less heat.
3) it has more ammo.

Problem?

Hell yeah!

Is it really missile fire resolution that takes the longest time in your games?

If not, then what IS it?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Xar
11/21/02 05:17 PM
67.38.22.45

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http://zilaz.netfirms.com/BCR.zip

Not polished, only level 2 weapons, but 99% of bugs should be fixed. Resolves weapon fire quickly.
LordChaos
11/22/02 12:49 AM
67.41.66.69

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It may not "speed up" gameplay, but one thing that a group I used to play with toyed around with was simultantious movement (no inititive)..

We would all write down our movement, then after everyone had finished (or at time limate was reached) we all reveled our movements and moved. Made for one heck of a mixup sometimes ("what do you mean I moved scout lance into point blank range of his assult lance?????"), but we felt that it made the game more interesting.

(note - works best with actual maps and not miniture rules, though can be modified for that).

on a side note, physical attacks all but disapared.
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
KamikazeJohnson
11/22/02 04:50 PM
142.161.0.92

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Funny, I always wanted to try a different form of "simultaneous" movement...one that would drastically slow down gameplay. Simply put, all the fastest 'Mechs move one hex, then the next fastest, etc. with all 'Mechs spreading their movement out over the course of the entire phase (select Walk/Run/Jump at the start of the phase). When multiple 'Mechs are to move "at the same time", use the initiative roll. Weaopns fire could be resolved in thas manner as well. I've always felt this would enhance realism (as opposed to whoever wins initiative getting behind the other guy), although it would be much more difficult and time-consuming to carry out. It would work quite well with "double blind" rules, too, I imagine...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
SSFSX17
11/22/02 06:49 PM
209.233.16.47

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To make various rolls go faster:

For SRMs, just roll a d6. For SRM-2, divide by 3. For SRM-4, divide by 2, and 1 deals 4 hits.

For LRMs, roll 1d6. The first 6 simply counts as 5 hits, but every 6 afterwards in a single shot means that that group of 5 did not hit at all.

For MRMs, roll d10s if you have them around. If not, try figuring out a way to do them with d20s.

For ATMs, just roll a d6 for every group of 3 and divide by 2.

I haven't figured out a good method for LBX-ACs.
Lousy good-for-nothing mortals. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
UncaRat
12/04/04 04:13 AM
172.159.128.132

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Quote:

Funny, I always wanted to try a different form of "simultaneous" movement...one that would drastically slow down gameplay. Simply put, all the fastest 'Mechs move one hex, then the next fastest, etc. with all 'Mechs spreading their movement out over the course of the entire phase (select Walk/Run/Jump at the start of the phase). When multiple 'Mechs are to move "at the same time", use the initiative roll. Weaopns fire could be resolved in thas manner as well. I've always felt this would enhance realism (as opposed to whoever wins initiative getting behind the other guy), although it would be much more difficult and time-consuming to carry out. It would work quite well with "double blind" rules, too, I imagine...




Steve Jackson Games used this in Star Fleet Batles for ship movement, tables for various speeds up to 32 were included. Most mechs would fit quite well in the speed 12 chart except the real screamers. and you're right in that it does slow things down! A lot.
SSFSX17
12/05/04 02:18 AM
128.195.64.90

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Wow, this is a really old thread and I forgot that I said certain things in it...

Renegade Tech (found at http://staff.bus.bton.ac.uk/fesg/rtech/index.html if you care) would make games go by pretty fast, since everything would simply start dying faster.

I think I also saw some text file somewhere that described playing BattleTech using d6 for the to-hit rolls instead of d12.
Lousy good-for-nothing mortals. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
Gangrene
12/05/04 07:40 PM
24.6.228.14

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I think Battletech's biggest problems are the poor chance of hitting and the weak weapons. It does not make for good gameplay, IMO, because ultimately every attempt to apply complex tactics will fail and degenerate into a slugfest or a game of luck. The capability to do an accurate, highly damaging strike is missing from Battletech. People are so scared of "munchkins" that the game ends of being balanced by imposing extremely limiting statistics on anything that might be offensively useful. If large rules changes are not desired, then a simple fix I have found is to make to-hit rolls using 2D8 or 2D10 instead of 2D6. IMO, this makes the game more enjoyable.
Gangrene
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