Cadet
01/22/03 04:20 PM
206.102.34.143
|
I'm asking if the Clans needed to show up in the storyline. We had new technologies to play with thanks to TRO:2750, but did we need the Clans as a shakeup, or would we have been content to follow the wars, intregue, machinations of the Inner Sphere powers?
Does not play well with others.
|
Karagin
01/22/03 04:34 PM
68.21.149.206
|
The Clans has high tech barbarians was a cool and interesting twist on that old idea...plus they did tie off a few lose ends about the old SLDF and such.
When I first read Lethal Heritage, the Clans sounded really different and fresh in that they were new and they pushed the IS to change, but not change to the point that things are as they are now with one group getting ready to nuke whole worlds into ash.
The idea that major Power houses of the IS, (no pun intented), ran into something was bigger and meaner then they were was a good idea, the rules of engagement that the Clans had really made them interesting to play since it forced the players to think about how they would use their mech etc...
They were a good storyline mover, but they lost a lot of their edge and fun when their tech seemed to be popping up with two bit merc units and every time they tried to use their rules of engagement they were so badly defeated it made you wonder how they ever got back to the IS at all.
Then they got the "bad guys in the jackboots and black uniforms" stereotype stigma via the poor writting that popped up and after they went from a 3D group to 1D basic boogie-man bad guy group.
SO what started as good idea ended as a bad one.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Cadet
01/22/03 04:59 PM
206.102.34.143
|
Maybe I wouldn't have minded so much if the Clans didn't seem so contrived. That the SLDF would simply turn into the Clans in the space of a generation or two is just a little out there.
I agree it was an interesting concept, but one that was terrible in execution and ended up just being so incredibly lame.
Does not play well with others.
|
Nightward
01/22/03 05:22 PM
210.50.57.96
|
They were not "Necessary", in that things could have kept going as was ad infinatum. Of course, this would have left things a tad stale, since there would not have been anything approaching the level of technological change that swept through the Inner Sphere.
I personally like the Clans. Of course, since they shattered the old Wolf Clan, I have been playing as Draconis Combine, but back in the 3050s, when the Wolf swept all before them...
I blame it all on Robert Thurston. Accursed Jade Falcons...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Bob_Richter
01/22/03 06:21 PM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>I'm asking if the Clans needed to show up in the storyline.<<<
Nope.
>>>We had new technologies to play with thanks to TRO:2750,<<<
Boo.
>>>but did we need the Clans as a shakeup, or would we have been content to follow the wars, intregue, machinations of the Inner Sphere powers? <<<
I would have been fine with these.
Actually, I know why the Clans were needed: to stop the Glorious AFFC from beating the hell out of its neighbors time and time again. 
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
01/22/03 06:23 PM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>That the SLDF would simply turn into the Clans in the space of a generation or two is just a little out there.<<<
Not really. Only takes a generation to indoctrinate one.
So if X generation decided to be the Clans, it would be as if Y generation had ALWAYS been the Clans, and so on.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Cray
01/22/03 06:27 PM
65.32.253.120
|
There were SO many better ways to shake up the Inner Sphere than "Ugh, ugh, me smash'em, me honorable warrior" techno-barbarians.
A return of something recognizably Star Leagueish would've been interesting because it would make all sorts of politicking and diplomacy possible with the Star League descendants. The Clans were just a one-dimension enemy (initially): fight them or die. Would be amusing to see the Star League descendants attempt to restart the Star League and throw the balance of power in the Inner Sphere out of whack, engendering another round of near free-for-all wars and shifting alliances.
You know, something more dynamic than the stability of the Succession Wars eras (no alliances), FedCom era (Lyrans/Davions vs. everyone else), or the Clans (everyone vs. the Clans).
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
NathanKell
01/22/03 07:14 PM
67.86.63.119
|
In reply to:
So if X generation decided to be the Clans
This is what I take issue with, as much as gen. Y's acceptance.
Unless that tropical brain fever was one hell of a lot more contagious than has been reported. 
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Countergod
01/22/03 10:40 PM
160.39.139.144
|
Hail to you fellow Wolf Clan follower I still follow the WiE and for inner sphere, I use my own merc unit
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck 
Maj. NevLord Madman |
Cadet
01/22/03 11:09 PM
206.102.33.148
|
I was thinking along those same lines.
IT isn't just the concept of the Clans, but rather how they got there. Madman who turns his back on everything the Star League stood for, breaks up what little unity they have in favor of a bunch of clans who ignore every military lesson the last 4000 years of history have taught us, then just show up and the people just throw their hands up and accept him.
Does not play well with others.
|
Cadet
01/22/03 11:13 PM
206.102.33.148
|
But it was only a relative handful of people, not a vast movement. I just can't see millions of people just blindly following this messiah. Then again I can't see 800 warriors plus some auxillery troops taking on everybody and winning either.
Does not play well with others.
|
Karagin
01/22/03 11:18 PM
68.21.150.192
|
Wow that sounds a lot like Alexander Tarjan...er...sorry I mean Delvin Stone...you know the guy who is in charge of the Terran Overloard Gover....sorry I mean Tthe Republic of the Sphere. 
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
The_Nice_Guy
01/23/03 12:56 AM
137.132.3.9
|
Millions? Nah, just 3 million people on all five Pentagon worlds.
The Nice Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
|
Dog
01/23/03 02:01 AM
68.8.231.175
|
The way I figure it from a technical pov at least, the clans were necessary to allow the Inner Sphere to advance a bit. Sort of like introducing new genetic material into the sibko, keeps things from stagnating. Without the clans, the inner sphere would have destroyed its technological base and we would all be playing MW:DA without any clan anything.
Also read in the MW3 book that commercial goods from the inner sphere being introduced to the clans isn't helping their caste system and that after losing the trial of refusal their honor system has begun to loosen a bit. Kind of hard to win honorably when the people you fight are dirty coniving bastards.
I am fairly annoyed by the bad guy stereotype though, especially when it is coming from groups that for the past 300+ years or so has been trying to eliminate each other.
Dog
Testing my knowledge
|
Bob_Richter
01/23/03 03:00 PM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>Unless that tropical brain fever was one hell of a lot more contagious than has been reported. <<<
NK's followers really thought he had a better way. Brain fever may not be contagious, but many forms of stupidity and radicalism are. Out of 3 million military troopers, NK recruited his small band of followers, who shared his ideas to some extent -- a cult, if you will.
He established his society with their help and then waited until the time was right, until 800 intensely trained troops would be enough to control the Pentagon worlds, and then launched his strike.
So unbelievable? I think not.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
TxHotrice
01/24/03 12:32 AM
66.169.220.82
|
On Kerenskys voyage away from the inner sphere there was a mutiny. He dealt with it swiftly and decisively and that was that. But everything was not all sunshine and flowers for everyone.
F is for fire burn down the city
U is for uranium...bomb
N is for no survivors
|
TxHotrice
01/24/03 12:40 AM
66.169.220.82
|
Also I think they have handled everything in a very satisfactory way as far as introducing the clans. There is more going on right now that I can remember in a long long time. The star league is re-formed the wobbies are sneaking around causing trouble, Victor is the general of the sldf and precentor martial of ComStar, katrina sits at the helm of fedcom and the aliance, Clan Nova Cat joined the sldf, clan ghost bear basically joined with the draconis combine, the capellans are trying to take st. ives back. There are soooo many different factions all playing against eachother for power behind the scenes (sometimes not so behind the scenes) all the while trying to keep the happy picture of the star league reborn intact. This is one of the most active and interesting times in b-techs history.
F is for fire burn down the city
U is for uranium...bomb
N is for no survivors
|
Vapor
01/24/03 02:47 AM
202.128.69.122
|
In reply to:
the wobbies are sneaking around causing trouble,
Sneaking around? Quite the opposite. WoB wasn't satisfied with being a quiet little nuthouse. No. They would much rather make sure that everyone knows just how insane they really are.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
|
Vapor
01/24/03 02:58 AM
202.128.69.122
|
In reply to:
I am fairly annoyed by the bad guy stereotype though, especially when it is coming from groups that for the past 300+ years or so has been trying to eliminate each other.
I have nothing against the Clans, their way of life, the way they fight, their technology, or anything like that. I think introducing the Clans into the mix was a good thing, enabling a lot of new fluxes in the timeline.
What I DON'T like about the Clans, however, is the way they invaded the IS for the sole purpose of capturing Terra and reinstating the SL. I think their "bad guy stereotype" is well deserved. The IS had been going along quite nicely (albeit a bit violently) without the Clans, and then the Clans show up and (basically) announce that they are the saviors of humanity and that the IS must yield to their way of life or die. That sounds rather presumptuous to me. Instead of becoming the "saviors of humanity," they only managed to unleash fighting more violent than the IS had known for god knows how long.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
|
Dog
01/25/03 02:07 AM
68.8.231.175
|
Well, after some thought this is what i've finalized. The Clans were introduced to create a Good vs Bad environment to play in, adding to the Star League setting, Succession war setting, Solaris VII, and others I havn't listed. Its just another timeline to play with big mechs, thats why they were neccesary be their influence good or bad.
The stereotype though comes from the writing, its all from ComStar's view or some other IS personality. Which makes it automatically biased against their invaders, when both sides have a semi legitimate claim. I've been thinking of an alternate outcome of the clan invasion but thats for another post.
Dog
Highly opinionated, Totally uneducated :P
|
roosterboy
02/19/03 02:04 PM
216.52.215.232
|
It's more than just the Clan saying "we want to be the saviours of humanity."
It's the Clans saying "What? The FedCom is the first step to a unified Inner Sphere. We have nothing to do with that! Our entire existence is predicated on the idea that we are the savious of humanity. How can we let someone else steal our thunder? Let's invade and unite humanity before some else beats us to it!"
So it's not only presumptuous, it's petty as well.
|