Karagin
02/18/03 10:09 AM
65.129.164.63
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Okay I picked this up and NO I did not pay the outrageous price that is being asked for it. I paid $20 for it.
First off the price increase is crazy, this is suppose to be the starting point for new players, but yet at $34.99 that is alone is going turn most folks away and given that it's aimed at the SAME AGE GROUP as MWDA, the parents, who are the ones buying these games for the under 16 crowd, will not be looking to drop $35 dollars on a board/miniatures game.
This increase in price is going to really hurt the sales of the box set. There are NO Unseen in there...can't wait to see the ones who do start through the Box Set wonder why they don't have the PP mechs...
Given that this is a late product, where is the super fancy art that Randal talked about in one of his Battlechats as one of the reasons the box set was dealyed? I didn't see it.
The maps to play on look nice, and the counters are good, now I could understand the $34.99 price if they box had plastic mechs in it, but not for cardboard mechs.
The quickplay rules are nice, and do allow for faster learning of the game, this gives the incoming players more chances to get the feel of the game.
The new IS map is nice, but it's NOT worth it to buy the box set just to get the map and no I didn't buy it for the map, I decided to buy it so as I could use it to teach others to play.
Over all the box set isn't bad, the price is too high though for what you get and it should have been down around what the other BT Box Sets where $15-25 dollars with average for the starting box set being $20. It shold not be an almost 50% increase in price since that will push folks over to other less expensive games.
So on a scale A-F, I give this one a C.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/18/03 10:12 AM
4.35.174.250
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...that at $35, (Classic) Battletech takes less money to start in than MWDA or DnD, just to name a couple of examples.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:15 AM
65.129.164.63
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It is still WAY to much for the starting game for anything. I am sorry but not everyone has rich parents who are going to blindly drop $35 bucks on something.
So that will hurt the sales and I have spoken with several shop owners, who carry BT and they don't like the price increase and have had folks complain about it.
So please drop the idea that it's cheaper for BT to run since if it was we would see a lot more product then we do.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
02/18/03 10:20 AM
205.213.145.225
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I agree that it will hurt sales, but it is simple economics. In order to remain a viable company, FanPro has to charge that much with the boxed set because the revenue from that product will lead to more of the things you want, like ads and to pay the licensing fees to WizKids so they can continue to make the product.
It does suck that they raised the price on it. I wish they wouldnt have made it that expensive. But if they dont, then CBT will die a horrible death.
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:26 AM
65.129.164.63
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Lack of sales will hurt the game just as much do to high prices...and given that this is the starter set for BT the high price will push folks away.
They could have still charged the same as the past Box Sets and had it out on time and then done ads IF they would budget and plan better and take the time to explore the idea of placing ads. Ads don't cost that much and if they are banking on the idea that by increasing the price of the Box Set will give them money I think they shot them selves in the foot with that idea.
Given that the person I bought the game through isn't charging the full price mainly to move the product and to allow for the parnets to buy something for a decent price, shows that it's not just a fan that is upset but also a store owner.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
02/18/03 10:35 AM
205.213.145.225
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Regardless of the fact of who is upset with the price (like i said, I'm not happy with it..), you have to look at the business considerations for them making the decision to sell at that price.
Yeah, having a good budget would have helped them put out products and advertise. But we dont know what resources FP started off with, how much they paid WK to take over the CBT lineup, and what htey have to pay in royalties and licensing fees yearly. That could be a pretty hefty sum that makes it hard for them to publish the products and advertise.
Until we know what Fanpro is working with, we really shouldnt be commenting on whether or not they can advertise.
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:42 AM
65.129.164.63
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Right I forgot all they want to hear is how wonderful of a job they are doing and how they are not doing anything wrong...I think we have been down this road once before...yes...it's called the FASA days and we all know where that ended...
If we the fans DON'T speak up and express our dislikes over high prices and lack of ads and other things then NOTHING will change and the game will go away.
What's better, a lower priced game that actually sells or a high priced one that doesn't? That is the key issue...are folks willing to shovel out $35 for a starter for BT when the same can get them more in MWDA or other similar games?
High prices drive folks away, thus they don't buy the product thus FP makes NO money thus they end up droping BT since it's not profitible...
And that leads to the need for the fans to speak up on the BT boards and in emails to FP pointing this out so they can see and understand it.
Saying that we shouldn't comment is wrong and leads to a repeat of the disaster FASA had.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/18/03 10:50 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>It is still WAY to much for the starting game for anything.<<<
Well, I disagree, actually. It's more than I paid, but that was over a decade ago. It's not more than I would pay now.
>>>I am sorry but not everyone has rich parents who are going to blindly drop $35 bucks on something.<<<
($ and bucks are redundant.)
It doesn't take rich parents to have $35 to spend on something. Geez. Get a fricking paper route.
No, the cost increase is probably a bad idea. It's probably also unwarranted.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:54 AM
65.129.164.63
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IF the BT box sets had been $35 back in the 80s I know at least 3 dozen folks who would have NEVER gotten into the game at all and some of them did have jobs or ways of making their own money, but even a paper route doesn't pay enough to drop $35 dollars on a single game and given that this isn't a computer game the choices for the lower end of the age group will find something else to go with and given also that their parents are the ones who have finial say on the way the money is spent the high price will more then likely push them to suggest another item or items for them to spend the $35 on.
It's not probaly a bad idea, it's DEFIEANTLY a bad idea.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/18/03 11:05 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>IF the BT box sets had been $35 back in the 80s<<<
That's not what we're talking about.
This isn't the 80s or even the 90s.
This is the 21st Century, and America has just gone through a decade of unparalleled economic growth.
In short, while kids were poor in the 80s, and even in the 90s, today they can afford that $35 box set.
Hell, Monopoly costs that much these days.
MWDA takes hundreds of dollars to assemble an army suitable for tournament play. DnD costs $90 plus to get a competent collection of basic rules. I have a hard time thinking of a game you can get for under $30, aside of five-plus-year-old computer games, or vastly outdated RPG manuals.
I'll have to look next time I'm in my FLGS.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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masdog5
02/18/03 11:33 AM
205.213.145.225
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From what I have been able to find after an hour and a half of dedicated searching thru some databases is that WizKids is a limited liability corporation chartered out of delaware. Unfortunately, none of the tax information is available, and since it isnt a publically traded company, there are no reports to look up.
The same goes for Fanpro, although I would need to learn german to be absolutely sure.
I hate to say this, but after reading the FanPro site's press releases, it seems like they are just charged with developing supplementary products that go along with Wizkids MWDA.
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Karagin
02/18/03 01:01 PM
207.43.145.16
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In reply to:
masdog5 wrote:
I hate to say this, but after reading the FanPro site's press releases, it seems like they are just charged with developing supplementary products that go along with Wizkids MWDA.
I think this has been pointed out before...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/18/03 01:05 PM
207.43.145.16
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Really? I wish I knew kids that can afford out their own pockets, not mommy's or daddy's, a $35 game...I really do wish I knew them.
Sorry Bob but the average kid doesn't have that kind of cash and given that the game is marketed to ages 12 and up, which by the way is on the box, it is compteting with MWDA as well as things like CDs, computer games, the latest TCG and other things the kids from ages 12 and up want.
Hell the original price of the current box set is an evening out for my girlfriend and myself for dinner, so it's not something folks can just drop at a whime. And if you believe other wise then I guess you live in a perfect world.
As for the economy....funny thing is they are claiming we haven't had any growth in years...but then again I guess that is based on which side of the poltical arena you pick to believe.
Bottom line is they are over charging for this game and it's going to hurt the sales.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/18/03 06:14 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>I wish I knew kids that can afford out their own pockets, not mommy's or daddy's, a $35 game...I really do wish I knew them<<<
You mean you *don't*?
When I was 10, I bought myself a $200 dollar freaking computer. And that was in the early nineties.
Okay, so most kids these days don't get paper-routes and earn their own money. They have allowances. I'd be willing to bet your typical middle-class child gets enough money to go in with a couple of his buddies and get a Battletech box set. (That's less than $10 in a given allowance period)
>>>Sorry Bob but the average kid doesn't have that kind of cash <<<
Bullshit. And never forget that I've been a kid more recently than you. I'm the expert here. Kids spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on Magic cards, for crying out loud, and you're telling me they can't afford a $35 product?
>>>Hell the original price of the current box set is an evening out for my girlfriend and myself for dinner,<<<
Damn, you eat cheap. That woman must not have any self-respect. 
>>>And if you believe other wise then I guess you live in a perfect world.<<<
No, I live in a world where $35 just ain't all that much. It isn't.
>>>As for the economy....funny thing is they are claiming we haven't had any growth in years...but then again I guess that is based on which side of the poltical arena you pick to believe.<<<
The numbers are pretty solid, and the economy's much larger now than it was in the eighties. Either that means we've had inflation (in which case, $35 is worth less) or the productive power of the economy's grown (in which case everyone has more money.)
>>>Bottom line is they are over charging for this game and it's going to hurt the sales. <<<
I don't know if they're over-charging or not, and I can't imagine how you claim to. How much does it cost FanPro to make one of those, since you seem to know?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:20 PM
65.129.164.179
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Sure Bob, if you say so...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Ketjak
02/19/03 12:39 AM
198.79.105.2
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> Sure Bob, if you say so...
No, really Karagin - that's a cheap date; $35 for two people? C'mon, man, at least spring for the Biggie Size.
- Ketjak
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Ketjak
02/19/03 01:05 AM
198.79.105.2
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Karagin,
If kids these days don't have $35 for CBT-in-a-box, how do you explain the $40 price point of a GameBoy Advanced game? How about the popularity of PlayStation and PS2 games, which average about $35 and $50 new respectively?
They can't all be stealing them.
For that matter, and closer to home, how do you explain the sales of the role-playing game supplements like:
D&D 3E Player's Handbook ($30)
D&D 3E Dungeon Master's Guide ($30)
D&D 3E Monster Manual ($30)
D&D 3E Psionic Handbook ($30)
D&D 3E Forgotten Realms Sourcebook ($40)
and others I'm too lazy to type about. Are the kids stealing those?
- Ketjak
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masdog5
02/19/03 02:22 AM
205.213.145.138
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Your arguement is flawed in the first place. You say that no 12 year old could go out and afford it out of their own pocket because it is $35 instead of $20. Well, even if it was $20, they would still most likely be buying it out of mom and dad's pocket.
As for money, most kids I grew up with got an allowance, and many of them, including myself, still get the occassional check from the 'rents while in school.
Even if they do have an allowance, its not like its hard to find seasonal jobs. Lawns need to be mowed, leaves raked, snow shoveled, and kids babysat. Its not like back in the day when kids got pennies for their hard work, when I babysat 10 years ago for my neighbor, a bad night was bringing in 20 bucks.
As for your dating situation....35 can be alot, depending on where you live. When my girlfriend and i arent fighting(kinda like we are now...but that is another story for another board), our dates usually averaged around $35-40. Dinner is usually around $20-30, including tip (there arent many places to eat in Fond du Lac that are decent), and the movies are $15.
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Ketjak
02/19/03 02:44 AM
198.79.105.2
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One more thing, Kara. I did some checking in my collection and compared it against what I know about the new version.
In 1996, the BT4E was published for $25. It contained 48 full color card board counters, 32 page, full-color universe book (only included 4 half-page color shots along with the 24 Mechs), 48 page rulebook, dice, stands and a small sticker sheet.
Seven years later the CBT box set contains 48 full-color cardboard counters, a 48 page full-color universe book (contains 8 full-page color pieces and 4 half-page pieces, along with the 24 Mechs), a 64 page rulebook, a full-color 16 page quick-start rules pamphlet, a full-color poster-sized map of the IS, stands and dice.
How did they manage ONLY to charge $35, given color vs. black & white printing costs and the meteoric cost increases of paper in the past 7 years?
- Ketjak
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realworldviews
02/19/03 03:26 PM
24.98.62.128
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Whare are you people going that you need to spend more than $30-$40 on a night out.
Me and my GF will go out to dinner and a movie for maybe $40 at most. Unless you are going to eat at some expensive resturant, and most of those that I have been to aren't much better than an Applebee's or Chili's, you shouldn't need to have to drop more than 20-30 bucks for dinner.
Now if your out with a girl for the first time and trying to impress her then maybe I can understand spending more money.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Bob_Richter
02/19/03 04:22 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>Whare are you people going that you need to spend more than $30-$40 on a night out.<<<
Anywhere fancier than Pizza Hut.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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LordChaos
02/19/03 10:58 PM
67.41.67.32
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"Whare are you people going that you need to spend more than $30-$40 on a night out."
You probly don't want me to mention how much I have spent on dinner allone for me and my GF (it has teatered around the tripple digits more then once).
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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realworldviews
02/20/03 01:14 AM
24.98.62.128
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You probly don't want me to mention how much I have spent on dinner allone for me and my GF (it has teatered around the tripple digits more then once).
Thats all well and good every once in a while, but I would bet that you don't spend that much in one night more than every once in a while. I will spend that much on a special occasion but not all the time.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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realworldviews
02/20/03 01:18 AM
24.98.62.128
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Anywhere fancier than Pizza Hut.
Well if that the case, Thank God My GF doesn't like those expensive resturants. She perfectly happy with Applebee's. At which we generally spend about $25 with tip.
And heck why do I know of many nice places to eat that aren't break the bank expensive.  
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Bob_Richter
02/20/03 02:16 AM
4.35.174.250
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Applebee's is crap. I wouldn't go there on a bet, and you can quote me on it. I'd sooner go to Taco Bell.
ONE person eating there where I'm from will cost you $25, without the tip. Well, that's unless you ignore appetizers and dessert. Then you can escape a lot cheaper. But that just looks cheap when you take a girl on a date.
So you're lucky either
1) food's a lot cheaper where you're at
or
2) Your gal doesn't mind you being cheap.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
02/20/03 02:17 AM
4.35.174.250
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some of us are too poor to go out EXCEPT for special occasions.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Nightmare
02/20/03 04:24 AM
80.222.92.246
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It`s rather easy to spend money on a night out. Some decent food shouldn`t be more than ~20€ per person, but then you get to the rest of the evening 
Admittance to nightclub 5-15€, drinks and beverages no less than 30€, and then you need a cab, probably adding 10€ more. Per person.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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The_Nice_Guy
02/20/03 10:07 AM
137.132.3.12
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One of the best reasons I had for buying the 3rd Ed box when I was just getting into the game was that there were minis inside. The price wasn't really a problem; it was a matter of "Is it worth it?"
Over here, we encourage new players to buy the BMR straight off the bat, instead of the box set, because the box set doesn't contain anything that really matters.
We would prefer them to use the money set aside for the box set to buy the BMR and more minis, which look a hell lot better.
So yeah, I don't see too many players buying the box set when they can buy the full L2 ruleset in the BMR and at least two minis for the same price.
And no, kids in my country have quite a bit of money, but not that much. A pack of MTG cards($10-$12) a week is fine for the teenager from 13-16 years old, but few of them have the discipline to save up enough to buy something that costs $50(the price of the box set here).
I dunno why, but the higher the price, the more difficult it is to sell to the kids, because they have to fight harder against the tendency for instant gratification.
The MW: DA players here are also mostly above 16 years old. Surprisingly, few of them have heard of CBT as well. So much for WK helping out FanPro.
The Nice Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
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masdog5
02/20/03 10:41 AM
205.213.145.138
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'Applebee's is crap. I wouldn't go there on a bet, and you can quote me on it. I'd sooner go to Taco Bell.'
Where I am at, Applebees is one of the best, especially if you want to avoid most of the drunks in town. The food here is alot cheaper, and my date and I were able to get away with 25 bucks with tip (kinda helps that neither one of us were big eaters).
As for TBell...well..most people I know around here only eat it because they are drunk and its the only place open at 1 AM on a Friday and Saturday. Personally, I wont touch that stuff...
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realworldviews
02/20/03 11:58 AM
24.98.62.128
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Where I am at, Applebees is one of the best, especially if you want to avoid most of the drunks in town. The food here is alot cheaper, and my date and I were able to get away with 25 bucks with tip (kinda helps that neither one of us were big eaters).
That is exactly what I was about to say.
I guess food is cheaper down here in GA.
And neither me or my GF are big eaters. We usually skip appetizers, and split a dessert.
I guess that we are just a couple of the lucky ones.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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