Cadet
04/13/03 06:02 PM
206.102.33.62
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One of the things that bothers me the most about the FanPro/WizKid apologists is that when any criticism of the Jihad is voiced, one of the retorts invariably is something along the lines of "But FASA had planned the Jihad all along."
So what? FASA died. They made many poor storyline, writing, and business decisions and lost their fanbase, so what does it matter what FASA wanted to do? In other words, why couldn't the writers at WizKids and FanPro come up with something else besides the Jihad, something not retarded? They had the perfect opportunity to start over and yet continued with a stupid storyline.
So what does it matter what FASA wanted to do?
Does not play well with others.
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Gangrene
04/13/03 10:49 PM
68.113.44.60
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Boy, thats a baited post. The only time the point of FASA's involvement in the storyline is important is if people are blaming FanPro/Wizkids for the creation of the storyline. Since many people who were formerly involved with FASA are now involved with FanPro certainly they should have stepped back after FASA failed and looked at the product with a more critical eye. Unforunately they didn't.
Gangrene
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Zwischy
04/14/03 03:32 AM
67.4.134.29
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So what kind of a plotline would be NOT retarded? If any plotline that could be created can actually avoid the venom of criticism?
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Cray
04/14/03 05:45 AM
65.32.253.120
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In reply to:
One of the things that bothers me the most about the FanPro/WizKid apologists is that when any criticism of the Jihad is voiced, one of the retorts invariably is something along the lines of "But FASA had planned the Jihad all along."
There's a failure to communicate here.
Stating "FASA planned the Jihad" is not meant to indicate the Jihad is good, not by any means, it is simply meant to correct the ignorant folks who think this is entirely a Wizkids/Fanpro conspiracy. Or that's why I raise the point.
In other words, do what you just did: put the blame where it belongs.
I don't appreciate your misrepresentation that because I say "FASA planned it," I mean it's good. If you think that, you've been letting your personal opinions color in what the "apologists" are saying rather than paying attention to what they're actually saying.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Eclipz
04/14/03 01:07 PM
68.118.41.156
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Some of us don't have a problem with the Jihad (don't much care who the idea came from). It's right after the Jihad and the creation of the Republic of the Sphere I don't think I'm too keen on but since it hasn't happened yet (In the Classic time I am in) I can't really complain since I don't know the whole story.
Scott
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Bob_Richter
04/14/03 05:43 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>So what does it matter what FASA wanted to do? <<<
Most people who want to split off their own storyline choose the point of FASA's death to do it.
When we point out that the WOB Jihad was all already mapped out by FASA, all we're saying is "why this point?" If you just don't like the Jihad, cool.
Except, well, you haven't even SEEN the Jihad, yet. How do you know you don't like it?
If you want to start at the end of FASA's timeline, start AFTER the WOB Jihad.
Otherwise, feel free to alter your timeline the way you see fit.
Personally, I like to split off right after The Capellan Solution and right before The CCFM. That's the point, IMHO, that the universe REALLY went to hell. For the most part, all it needs is minor tweaks before that.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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TenakaFurey
04/16/03 08:28 PM
195.92.194.12
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I don't generally respond to criticism of th Jihad with the phrase "Well, FASA planned it."
I usually respond with the question "What is it about the Jihad that you don't like?" What makes it, in your own words, retarded?
Saying that FASA created the Jihad is a response saved mainly for when people accuse WK and the current authors of a conspiracy to wreck the current factions so they can bring in the Dark Age. Of course, many of those still voice many of the misunderstandings about the DA.....
So - why do you not like the Jihad?
EJL
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Alemnyr
04/16/03 10:06 PM
142.179.143.141
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The vast increase in WoB personnel and materiel. The only thing I can think of is that the Minnesota Tribe (Clan Wolverine) has joined with the WoB in order to get revenge on both the barbarians of the Inner Sphere and the Clans who nearly annihilated them.
That's fairly far-fetched though, so how did WoB get entire Warship crews? I know where they got the warships, even if it is a little far-fetched as well. WoB can find them, but Comstar can't? Makes alot of sense...
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Bob_Richter
04/17/03 09:20 AM
4.35.174.250
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WOB has literally thousands of people at its command -- and always has. Comstar was a HUGE organization, and a lot of it split off to join WOB.
The ComStar Guards an Militia (ComGuard) were a very small section of ComStar's resources, but they are equivalent in size to House militaries.
While WOBM has never been shown to be quite that large, they do have a lot of personnel. Personnel that could be trained to crew Warships, fly fighters, command Battlemechs, or just carry rifles. Further, like any fanatical cult, they do have active recruitment, and newe people coming in all the time. The population of Terra numbers in the billions.
And you wonder where they're getting all those people? 
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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TenakaFurey
04/20/03 08:17 PM
195.92.168.173
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That is very easy to answer.
Since 3052, WoB has been building up its forces. It has established or taken over training bases in the Periphery that were once SLDf or ComStar.
Since 3057, it has run Terra, which is not only the single most proudctive system in the IS, but which has effcetively been a WoB world since 2786.
With Terra, it gained access to a population of 6 billion people. It gained access to all those factories. It toom oevr whatever was left of ComStars stockpile, has expanded production at a number of factories and reopened others closed since the SL-era. It gained access to who knows how many training faciliites - including some of the best in the IS. Even with all this, WoB is still buying in lots of equipment from outside Terra....despite the vast increase in production
ComStars focus on the Clans, and their election of Vic as PM has also alienated many. Recruitment from the Chaos March and the Periphery is largely going to the WoB. ComStar is still losing people to the WoB.
WIth Vic, ComStar lost the Titan yards to the WoB. This allows them to build and repair WarShips. And these are SL-era facilities.
Then we have ComStar losing revenue and influence and recruits from the FWL and CC and the Periphery and Chaos March while, thanks to their rebuilding efforts, and their anti-Clan protection and the SL memberships, etc, their costs have increased vastly. The WoB is smaller, but has a relatively large slice of the HPG contracts.
Add in the financial support from the FWL, and it should have plenty of money....
So, what do we have? We have an organsitaion with plenty of recruits, lots of training facilities and which has impressive production muscle and cash.
As for the WarShip crews...what is to stop them doing what everyone else did and promote some DropShip captains? Or training some at their new academies on Terra?
They don't need anybody else. They have the people, and the resources on hand. And, as they are presumably fanatics, they have the will to make full use of them.
Why do they believe they can win? Once we know what their aims and goals are, then we can say if they are realistic or not.
If there is any problem with the WoB Jihad, explaining away where they got everything will be the least of the problems. It's all there up front.
EJL
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BA_Evans
04/21/03 11:47 AM
65.194.182.3
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I have also noticed that in most threads that criticize the Jihad the 'FASA originated the Jihad storyline' response crops up. I have the impression that fans who dislike the Jihad want to criticize WizKids for implementing the Jihad. It doesn't matter who first thought of the Jihad, Wizkids will get blamed for the implementation and what it does to the BTech universe.
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Chief_Crazy_Head
08/23/03 04:33 PM
195.93.33.11
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You never met me or my kin.
Over 14 years UbEr L£$t Battletech player im almost an inthuesast  :p:p
"They made many poor storyline".......Did you ever subscribe to "small unit actions in the 31`st centuary"??? Damn good stories there, ill give you fair play - you got something to say  ) but I find it hard to deal with your post unless you know a REAL LOT about the battletech and the "FASA corporation"
"So what? FASA died"
If FASA "Died" we wouldent be talking about it ))) and how can that many japanese and English players be wrong lol (not to mension American, German (they play loads of Mech based games and Battletech is the don , its cybernetics before its time lol), It got so big that the company`s status no longer matters, check out the spin offs......
This is a humble opinion and im sure that you know your stuff or you wouldent have been as passionate about it 
you can ask me any question about Battletech and theres a 90% chance that I could tell you a lot more than you knew (you got to try it! lol) but im not too strong on new age mech`s or the market worth of battletech if you get my drift, but i do know every planet in the battletech world and most of what units where on them, there commanders names (down to lance size) all about the planet as well in a lot of cases, and i can give you details of many mercenary groops, bandit kings rulers and there family trees, over 1000 battle reports officially from fasa and...... every stat, overview, famous people, and a SOD LOAD MORE lol on every unit be it Mech, Vehicle, Aerospace Fighter, Dropship, (bit hazey on jumpship lol hard to get the refrence books and harder to find the time :p:p), Mines, gun emplacements, ALL the major coorprations and manufacturers like
EarthWerks Incorporated, Andoran Industries Ltd etc, well sorry about this big post people but if you want to know something no matter how obsure about any unit or just about anyhting in 3025 I could tell you crazy stuff lol, be awaire that a reply could take a few hours as I got mountains of reference material.
Fire away!
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Chief_Crazy_Head
08/23/03 04:35 PM
195.93.33.11
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It dont matter, Battletech is too big of a thing.
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Chief_Crazy_Head
08/23/03 04:42 PM
195.93.33.11
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soz Gents what is this frickken jihad thing lol, I know what a jihad is but not the refrence your putting it in, Im an OLD ScHoOL Battletech player of some 14 years, but my knoledge lies in 3025-3028 with a LOT of the Battle technology magazine editions, and refrence material on the game.
I know everything about Mechs, Vehicles, Aerospace fighters etc of that age (AND I MEAN EVERYTHING lol).
Get me up to speed on this thing.
Thx
SySt3m SpOof3r 
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Chief_Crazy_Head
08/23/03 04:49 PM
195.93.33.11
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"the whole is greater than the some of its parts"
It dont matter!, the game and the ammount of spin offs it caused is so well known that it is carried by the massess (check out japans, American and English intrest in the battletech universe), this jihad thing (what ever it is lol) is but a spin off by the sound of it? Somebody fill me in im out of wack with this jihad thing , personally sod em, battletech is big enough to pin its ears back, butter its head and swallow it hole
"Locust pilots are the weardest"
"Its a sad comment on urban living when a battlemaster mugs a phoenix hawk in a blind ally"
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