MisquetoHawk
Private
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 56
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Training
#66681 - 07/10/03 12:46 PM (63.231.160.50)
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A couple days ago I trained a SCP-A5 for about 120 days, the unit skills dropped to 6/5. I thought this was a bit high for the amout of days. Than later I purchased another SCP-A5. I trained it 60 days and their skills dropped to 4/4, WHY?
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KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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Re: Training
#66684 - 07/10/03 01:56 PM (128.176.216.116)
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Just happens. You got talented guys, you got dumbsters... So better train your crews in Jeeps. If they're crap and won't learn, who cares. If they're good, you can put them into really useful vehicles later.
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: Training
#66690 - 07/10/03 04:18 PM (65.83.147.62)
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yea, that's a very important tactic when you wanna get big vehicles/mechs. but since the scorp is teh most effiecient training vec on nev anyways don't bother using it for those 
unless you wanna make a skill 1 scorp battalion
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"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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cyanlde
Corporal
Reged: 02/17/03
Posts: 75
Loc: Toronto, CA
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Re: Training
#66692 - 07/10/03 04:24 PM (216.95.250.128)
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How do you train down for mechs? In a cheap mech?
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Kit_fox
Colonel
Reged: 09/16/02
Posts: 3054
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Re: Training
#66695 - 07/10/03 07:41 PM (172.192.180.33)
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correct.
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_____
The RNG mugged me in a dark street, killed my dog, and cancled Christmas.
When the winds of change blow hard enough the most trivial of things can become deadly projectials.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: Training
#66711 - 07/11/03 05:24 AM (65.83.147.62)
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yea, of course now teh cheapest mechs are over 20 mil. When some were 11 mil it was easier
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"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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Krynn
Major
Reged: 01/31/03
Posts: 1327
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Re: Training
#66736 - 07/11/03 11:42 AM (24.164.25.57)
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Heres the deal everyone.
After 4 nevdays or 1 day in combat your trooper gets a training roll. Its a roll with the RNG against a target number, this is only for the skills that he is using, I.E. mech pilot/gunery if in a mech. Each lower skill the target number doubles so it get pragresivly harder per skil point.
Now in order to intrduce some reality in the training process randy added multiplyers. Basicly every skill has a multiplyer for it and its allways hidden. So x/x/x/x/x all has a diferent multiplyer on it. Basicly the multiplyer could make you gain the skill quicker or make it allmost imposiable.
Now something not many know but have heard many times. Every time you train a trooper and he fails the training roll his multiplyer doubles for the skills that failed, once again it only applys to the skills hes using. So if you have a very stubern pilot only train for 4 nevdays at a time and he will improve someday.
Yes I have tested this, I had a MAD-4A pilot stuck on 5/0 and was quite mad at training for hundreds of days at a time. So I put him in for 4 days, then again he failed so another 4 days, on the 3rd or 4th time he went to 4/0. Yet before I trained him for literly hundreds of days it didnt work but a few single training sessions it worked.
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All I can say is www.neveron.de
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: Training
#66772 - 07/12/03 05:30 AM (65.83.147.62)
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I had heard that, but I didn't know exactly how it worked.
And really, it doesn't make much sense as 120 days is really 30 training rolls.
But now apparently it's really ripping yourself off to train in anything other than 4-day incrments...
And krynn, if this works i'm gonna love you, as Im gonna save tons on training...
BTW, I think this is my 2000th post
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"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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staker
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/25/02
Posts: 413
Loc: Haifa, Israel
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Re: Training
#66949 - 07/14/03 09:01 AM (132.68.1.29)
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To test this, I put 10 stuborn ppl on 4-days training. None had improved.
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There is no spoon.
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Krynn
Major
Reged: 01/31/03
Posts: 1327
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Re: Training
#66951 - 07/14/03 09:16 AM (24.164.25.57)
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As i said it doubles the multiplier, not automaticly improves, re-read what i wrote b/c I had to do it like 5 times, but he did improve and before it was on over 300 days training.
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All I can say is www.neveron.de
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: Training
#66980 - 07/14/03 02:51 PM (65.83.147.62)
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krynn, I'm testing too. I'm only on my 3rd-4th time, and no improvments. I'll keep trying tho. I'll tell ya when I get to 20
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"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: Training
#66982 - 07/14/03 03:13 PM (65.83.147.62)
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oh yea, and some statistics. Basically, every skill level is twice as hard to get as the last one. On average, it's 50/50 chance to skill down to skill 7. 25% chance to get to 6, etc.
So with a skill muliplier of 1 (or whatever neutral is):
7: 50%
6: 25%
5: 12.5%
4: 6.25%
3: 3.125%
2: 1.5625%
1: 0.78125%
Every trainign roll is a D100. Do to get down to 1, unless you have a good skill multi you basically have to roll a 100. 98-99 woudlg et you to skill 2, and a 96 or so woudl get you to skill 3.
However, every time you don't skill down at all on a trainign period the multi doubles.
So say krynn gets a skill 1 SRM-J off training like this: (I'm only looking at gunnery for 1 guy)
Trains for 40 days.
rolls are: (in order)
44,89,82,54,91,22,34,84,12,64
the second rollg ets him to 7. Now he need s a 75+ to improve...
which is the next roll. So he's at skill 6. NOW he need an 89 or higher. In a few rolls he gets a 90. After that he needs a 94. He doesn't get it. SO he'd skill 5 off 40 days, not bad...
He goes in for another 40 days and rolls:
33,89,56,54,97,12,88,43,77,2
he needed a 94 to improve, and gets a 97 on roll 5. After that he needs a 97 to skill down further. He doesn't get it.
He goes in for another 40 days, and never rolls a 97 or above. Since he didn't improve any, the skill multi double. Now he's gota 6.25 chance, and therefore needs a 94.
Then he hears about this new training method.
He sends it in for 4 days, rolls a 45, no improvment, now he needs a 89.
He sends it in for another 4 days, rolls a 86, no improvment, now he needs a 75
He sends it in for another 4 days, rolls a 12, no improvments, and no he only needs a 50.
He sends it in another 4 days, rolls a 67, and skill down after only 16 days of training, where he hadn't gotten any off of another 40 days.
Now he's skill 3 and heeds a 99 to skill down more. But since he does 4 days at a time he gets it fairly quickly. He does the saem to get to skill 1.
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"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland
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Re: Training
#66989 - 07/14/03 05:34 PM (172.176.60.75)
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I think this improving multiplier thing is a myth.
Krynn, you contradict yourself when you say the multiplier increses for every failed training roll, but then state he didnt gain skill for 100s of training days. Whether you train 4 days 100 times or 400 days one time shouldnt matter, its all the same amount of training rolls in the same order. If the multiplier really increased with failed trainign rolls, even the least talented guys would be gun1 sooner or later but they aren't unless you abuse the 16 days training bug (which under certain circumstances guarantees 0/-1 improvement for every 16 days session regardless of multipliers. Nice way to get those 8/1 pilots that own lance duels. Has been reported though so I wouldnt recommend trying it)..
Most likely it is a bug, just like said 16 days training bug. Or you were just lucky with that one 4-day session.
Lata
Krait
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MainLine
Corporal
Reged: 02/03/03
Posts: 113
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Re: Training
#66992 - 07/14/03 07:12 PM (210.209.11.17)
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is there ever a time when training does not work?
it seems that after so many attempts, pilots no longer skill down. so if i don't get them where i want them in 2-3 attempts, they're stuck forever. regardless of skill.
i have some 5/5 pilots who, despite repeated 100 days of training don't move.
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Krynn
Major
Reged: 01/31/03
Posts: 1327
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Re: Training
#67005 - 07/14/03 11:18 PM (24.164.25.57)
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I dont mean each training roll, I mean each time they go to training weather its 4 days or 400 days. Like i said in the first post it might be a myth but it worked for me on they only stuburn guy i had.
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All I can say is www.neveron.de
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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland
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Re: Training
#67015 - 07/15/03 01:18 AM (172.178.97.91)
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Yeah, if a pilots multiplier is really really low, the chances to skill even from 8 to 7 will be so low that they happen like 1 in 10000 times, so basically he will stay at gun8 unless you are super-lucky. And you can imagine how likely such a guy is to go to gun4 or better...
And if each training run really increases the chances of skilldown, it makes me even more convinced that there is another bug with low training times besides the 16 day bug because I am 99.9 % sure that the only thing that changes the multis is DP.
Lata
Krait
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Neveron_Liason
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/03/03
Posts: 414
Loc: 1 Neveron Way, Neveron City, N...
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Re: Training
#67020 - 07/15/03 01:57 AM (4.41.49.169)
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I am also very certain that the only way to change Multipliers is to donate.
Neveron rolls all your training rolls at one time when you send units to training.
While people keep claiming 'perfect' training numbers (from 4 to 16 to 28 to 40...), most of the 'amazing results' were caused by random chance. I have not heard of that gunnery-skilldown-only-thing, but I suggest sending in a Ticket on it, as for all I know, they just dumped all the help emails when they moved to the new system. Heh.
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Official Comments.
Randy> that was naturally occurring lag
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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland
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Re: Training
#67024 - 07/15/03 02:04 AM (172.178.97.91)
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That particular item is actually ticket # 4. 
Hopefully it is being looked into because its a really cheesy way to get bad piloting/ good gunry mechs which are even more valuable than boxers...
Lata
Krait
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Khan_E_F
Captain
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 865
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Re: Training
#67089 - 07/15/03 05:33 PM (203.56.233.124)
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If it took 3 to 4 times for a 5/0 stubborn pilot to reach 4/0, how long would it take for a stubborn warhammer pilot to go from 1/3 to 1/2?
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Glory To The Clans!
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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland
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Re: Training
#67115 - 07/16/03 12:09 AM (172.177.23.223)
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Could be one time, could be 1000 times. All a matter of luck. Or maybe of finding a bug with training....
Lata
Krait
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: Training
#67486 - 07/19/03 05:07 AM (216.78.134.89)
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by the way krait, why are 8/1 mechs so useful? don't they fall down all the time? I can see how 1/8 mechs are good in arenas, but ow are 8/1 mechs so good? (in LW)
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"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland
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Re: Training
#67571 - 07/20/03 05:35 PM (172.176.138.110)
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In Lance arenas. Ultra good gunry, ultra-low BV. For example: 8/1 ARC-2W. Only 1200ish BV, but you get 2 LRM20 at gun1. And those arenas are usually 30x30, so by the time an enemy is close enough for physicals hes usually pretty damn dead. Plus there is usually one mech in the lance that will discourage people from closing.
Lance duels are all about having the most bad piloting/good gunry pilots.
Lata
Krait
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1833
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Training
#67578 - 07/21/03 04:24 AM (12.47.79.2)
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Even in 1 on 1 duels, it lets you use a better mech (lower BV) than your opponent. I fought a 3/2 CDA with a 8/2 Jenner. he pushed me once, and I spent 3 rounds flopping like a fish before I got up, but by that time he looked like swiss cheese and I'd only been hit twice, and had a LOT more armor. I won with no serious damage (well, lost 1 ML).
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- Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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Protagoras
Captain
Reged: 08/04/02
Posts: 1131
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Re: Training
#67781 - 07/25/03 06:33 AM (161.114.1.183)
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Krait?
Why are bad pilot good gunnery mechwarriors desirable. I certainly know how the opposite can be good for kicking butt in arenas.
I've got some 8/1 7/1 7/0 pilots and I am always worried about them falling in battle. In fact I have before done skill reductions to lower pilot ratings some just so they don't seem so fragile to piloting checks.
If your saying being assured of getting an 8/1 pilot rather than a 5/4 pilot. I agree wholeheartedly I would rather have the 8/1 but if your saying it is preferable to have an 8/1 over a 4/1 I would like to know the application
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1833
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Training
#67782 - 07/25/03 06:44 AM (12.47.79.2)
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Because you can often stay away from physical combat in arenas. an 8/1 mech may have the same BV as a 3/3 mech, but hits 2 better on all shots. Hence you have the advantage in arena with equal BVs.
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- Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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Protagoras
Captain
Reged: 08/04/02
Posts: 1131
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Re: Training
#67784 - 07/25/03 07:42 AM (161.114.1.183)
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Its all relative though... you train in a 21 million mech to put the pilot into a 150 million mech... when before you trained in a 10 million mech to put em into a 75 million mech.
Plus if you pick your trainers well, you can duel them occasionally
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Aciddog
Lieutenant
Reged: 12/07/02
Posts: 693
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Re: Training
#67787 - 07/25/03 08:19 AM (12.82.66.7)
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some mechs went well beyond the 100% price increase like lct-3v i saw b4 around 15-16 mil now their like 35. Heck almost 2 weeks ago wasp-IL were under 20 mil now their 23 and the fist wasp-IL i got was like 6.5 mil way back when.
Soon most the dang mechs will be well over double the price they used to be.
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Protagoras
Captain
Reged: 08/04/02
Posts: 1131
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Re: Training
#67793 - 07/25/03 09:26 AM (161.114.1.183)
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Well when the price double happend, I believe it was a straight doubling. I believe what has happened since is the price adjustment code has been at work.
Some mechs that were less popular before the prices doubled (my pet the CRD-3L is a good example) are now being bought because their price was depressed before. (CRD-3L was a around 55 million right after the doubling, now its running about 85 million)
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Aciddog
Lieutenant
Reged: 12/07/02
Posts: 693
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Re: Training
#67795 - 07/25/03 09:59 AM (12.82.73.89)
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Thats my point the mechs didnt need doubling their prices go up on their own. Admins should just recut the mech prices by 1/2 and let the go up/down own their own.
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: Training
#67804 - 07/25/03 02:21 PM (65.83.147.52)
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aciddog, it was to balacne it out with production prices. So yes, they needed to change. Otherwise none would make mechs because it wouldn't be worth it.
And resources req's are based on weights, so chanings those would make yo uhave to change the WHOLE resource table to be consistent.
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"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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