Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
#83496 - 02/19/04 05:38 AM (24.146.1.128)
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What is the future of the neveron current alliance system? This is a good question with kizo gone and the unfair and over abudent hitting of little factions and unfactioned empires drying out easy targets. What will happen to The Alliance, LIFE and Ryuken as well as the minor powers? One must think is there anything we can do about to make a better future for Neveron. Can we setup some form of United Nations just for talking even like a channel with a once a week meeting between all alliance leaders and as many FLs as possible.
-Wesley PS: I will post further and would lvoe to tlak to anyoen who would like to try and make a solution to this coming problem.
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LiRa
Sergeant Major
Reged: 06/12/03
Posts: 369
Loc: Canada
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83498 - 02/19/04 05:51 AM (64.229.196.199)
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The odds of everyone getting together are so slim that it is almost impossible.
There is too much between too many players that has created animosity and dislike. In addition to that, people like to be the best, like to have power. Limiting themselves is not what they want to see happen. This is especially true for the biggest alliances.
Even if a few alliances did get together we run into another problem. Someone on their side is going to abuse their power, the rest of Nev will grow resentful and we have the Kizo/Alliance war all over.
It would take an incredible mediator, and alot of other factors to even come close to a solid peace.
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Li
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83499 - 02/19/04 06:18 AM (204.187.76.3)
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Hi LiRa,
I am not saying this would fi things up but it would give everyone somewhere to start. Also not all major alliances want to be the best in the normal defenition. I am not saying I got the answers but I am damn well willing ot try. I can't see the answer but that is cause no one person can come up with a solution to this problem. It will take the willngness of the people in charge of the alliances. We can't sustain the current situation for much longer without someone being unfairly beaten or the allied supower powers fighting each other eventually. Our current situation of hit the smaller factions and unfactioned will lead to the down troden and defeated to join together and they can. I am not saying they will for sure but I have seen it happen more then once on neveron when the loaners become targets. I've been playing since nev started almost. This could equal a smaller empire sized group like kizo but tighter together and willing to fight cause they have nothing left. This is one of a hundred scenarios I see in the future of Neveron. I would prefer to try to preserve each alliances power as it is now not take away from anyone. My hope is not to have a United Nations monitoring things but have some form of meeting where people can compromise or someone can moderate it with no power but is rewponsible to make compromises accepted able to all. I have run a lof of governments in neveron and will continue to hope for a good answer to these problems. -Wesley
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sinsear
Captain
Reged: 07/16/03
Posts: 824
Loc: Australia
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83500 - 02/19/04 06:25 AM (211.26.126.197)
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well said wesley.
Just because you can;t fix the problem, doesn't meaan it should be ignored.
I beleive as you do, and I know there are many players out there of like mind, all it takes is a few people to recruit a few more, and then you have a movement.
The movement gains momentum and you have change.
Of course, not all change is for the better. If this becomes a tea and biscuits game, I'm outta here.
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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LOL
[Re: sinsear]
#83503 - 02/19/04 07:13 AM (204.187.76.3)
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I don't think it will every be a tea and biscuit game Sinsear but politics plays a large role in Neveron. It decides who gets to be on which end of the PPC. Thats why the solution must be political obviously. All criticism and participation is welcome. Its not easy to get on my nerves. -Wesley
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1833
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: LOL
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83506 - 02/19/04 07:20 AM (12.47.79.2)
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heck, I'd be happy if each alliance leader would put up a site listing which factions were actually affiliated in what way to that alliance. I can't keep track, and every faction puts a million things in their faction description to try to keep attackers off. ..
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- Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1791
Loc: europe
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Re: LOL
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83507 - 02/19/04 07:21 AM (217.232.177.2)
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what's wrong with tea and biscuits?
gtg, the water's boiling...
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83539 - 02/19/04 10:24 AM (204.187.76.3)
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We can get people together if we remove certain characters like Rox and maybe Chet(I do get along with Chet a bit) We can't fix things with people trying coming to cause trouble. Democracy dosen't work sometimes obviously. I really think the problem is we are to afraid to try to fix things, becasue we fear we will lose power or that it is a waste of time.
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Raffi
Recruit
Reged: 03/11/03
Posts: 42
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83548 - 02/19/04 11:59 AM (66.191.207.55)
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We actually had peace more or less, save for skirmish type actions and a once a year blow out on unruly groups, and players used to police each other. Almost all the major alliance leaders used to handle things politically FIRST. It was actually the game admins who then felt the larger empires had to many armies collecting dust, so changes in rules were implimented to force battle to balance your empires out. Things such as OMT Morale, rep bonus for init, and the faction system itself.
If the larger groups once again started behaving as friends and not fighting, similar changes would be made. It is really hard to make donation cash if no one ever has to replace their stuff 
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'The great turning point in history is when all will stand with one great voice and say...."Screw it, why bother" Then a lone voice from the silent darkness replies... "Gotcha"!
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zugzug
Sergeant
Reged: 07/16/02
Posts: 116
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: LiRa]
#83551 - 02/19/04 12:28 PM (64.110.218.197)
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It'd have to be a new face for sure. From the other thread in this forum, there's a goodly number of empires and players wishing to change the current face of Nev-Politics. All they need is a kick in to the ass in the right direction.
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Centius
Newbie
Reged: 01/13/04
Posts: 2
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83572 - 02/19/04 02:09 PM (66.63.105.146)
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Life planned out before my birth, nothing could I say
had no chance to see myself, molded day by day
Looking back I realize, nothing have I done
left to die with only friend, alone I clench my gun
-excerpt from Metallica's "Disposable Heroes"
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Xia
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Forgotton Palace, Xu Chang, Im...
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83656 - 02/19/04 08:53 PM (209.159.211.57)
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There are no formal meetings, but there are plenty of backroom discussions. Alot of go betweens. 
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I find that violence is a perfectly viable solution to most problems....
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Xia]
#83738 - 02/20/04 05:28 AM (24.146.1.128)
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I am thinking something more organized and with rules to constrict people getting out of line. Or something like that to keep things peaceful in the meetings. -Wesley
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zugzug
Sergeant
Reged: 07/16/02
Posts: 116
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83748 - 02/20/04 08:14 AM (64.110.218.197)
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so basically having a UNN council (United Nations Of Neveron)
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: zugzug]
#83767 - 02/20/04 09:52 AM (204.187.76.3)
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Kinda much more loosely run. With less political limitations to attandies then the real world one. That is one idea I have atleast. -Wesley
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davion76
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 1605
Loc: Ridgecrest CA, USA
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: zugzug]
#83795 - 02/20/04 12:15 PM (138.163.0.42)
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Another option is to have faction restrictions. If a faction gets hit by too many people at once, the whoile faction restricts.... Don't know how well it'd work, but might be made usable.
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Wayward_Son
Major
Reged: 07/05/02
Posts: 1287
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: davion76]
#83807 - 02/20/04 12:42 PM (216.19.47.78)
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This already exists but the threshold is very high.
WS
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Kretschmer
Newbie
Reged: 03/24/03
Posts: 10
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Wayward_Son]
#83836 - 02/20/04 02:57 PM (128.153.207.187)
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Why would you want to make politics the staple of a war game?
Nev has been seesawing between stagnation and devastation. Don't pick either.
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AndrewCrisp
Sergeant
Reged: 11/22/02
Posts: 176
Loc: MilCom Centre, Outpost One, No...
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Kretschmer]
#83870 - 02/20/04 06:07 PM (156.34.218.232)
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Because, in essence, Neveron is not a war game - or to be more accurate, it is not just a war game.
Look at the various war games that exist, from board games like Risk and the original Battletech, to computer RTS games such as Command and Conquer. In these games, the technology and resources needed to conduct war are extremely simplified so as not to get in the way. Risk has "armies" generated based on the number of territories you possess. Battletech has vehicles and battlemechs that are just "there". Command and Conquer has units coming from specific buildings and only one resource needed (be it tiberium or "ore") to produce them. The end result are games that allow you to concentrate on actual tactics and not worry about where you're going to get ammo for that shiny new Mammoth Tank you just built.
Neveron, however, has elements of "Civilization" type games in the mining of various resources, the construction of cities and buildings in said cities, the research and production of every single item we need to fight those wars in the game.
As a result, it takes empires a LONG time to get anywhere, shorter if you donate, granted, but still a long time. It takes several RL months - in many cases over a year - of steady growth for a nation to develop the capacity to build vehicles, both in terms of researching the technology and building a resource and production base to actually churn out the things. It takes several RL years of steady growth to develop the capacity to build mechs.
Given the extremely long time needed to get anywhere, if a nation or empire wants to be a producer of, say, Locust battlemechs, it needs to be at peace with its neighbors for a good long time - you cannot spend money mobilizing troops and attacking an enemy, and build up a production capacity at the same time. In addition, as wars go on, the ability to produce vehicles is not only delayed in some nations, but it is lost in others. The recent Kizo-HoC war demonstrates this very well, as the Kizo super-alliance possessed the only nations capable of producing battlemechs - rather poor battlemechs, granted, but battlemechs nonetheless. As a result, we might never see a Stinger, Thorn, or Urbanmech of ANY variant on the market for several years. Several REAL LIFE years. Continued warfare will deprive us of many high-tech vehicles and eventually low tech vehicles as well, if given enough time.
As Sun-Tzu so wisely pointed out over 2500 years ago, no nation has benefitted from prolonged warfare. This is true both in Neveron and the real world.
Hence: politics! The fine art of diplomacy now stands up to serve as a shield for those producing nations from those that would seek to destroy them. And even the aggressor nations and conquerers among us need time to repair their vehicles and reload their weapons. Politics serves to stave off constant warfare that would otherwise drain Neveron to the point that nobody can do anything worthwhile.
Right now, sadly, the balance between war and peace has been tipped in favour of war. The means of producing war materiel have been overwhelmed by the demand. We've been through two Nev World Wars in the last RL year, and there are rumbles that a third NWW is on its way. People are scared.
I agree that it is time - past time - for a unifying force to be established on Neveron. A return of the Star League, or a global organization among the nations and factions of Neveron might serve the goal, but order needs to be reestablished before another major war tears up even more infrastructure and sends more technology into the darkness.
Andrew
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"Why is that we always break up our history by the .. the wars, not the years of peace?... Because it's exciting, and because on some level people like to see something big fall apart and explode from the inside out. And right now, John, we're that something."
- Micheal Garibaldi
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Mazer
Colonel
Reged: 01/24/03
Posts: 1622
Loc: Margaritaville ;)
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: AndrewCrisp]
#83877 - 02/20/04 06:47 PM (68.60.13.118)
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Hm, interesting parallels to the Succession wars of Battletech...
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Struck, sir? I have not yet begun to fight! - John Paul Jones
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Ian_uknowwho
Newbie
Reged: 02/20/04
Posts: 1
Loc: Gravenhurst, Ontario, Canada
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#83878 - 02/20/04 06:54 PM (65.95.195.74)
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i think ur idea sounds like a valad one and i personally am a unfactioned empire and i havent been attacked yet but if i were attacked i would be slatered in minutes aspecially if it were a larger faction or even a single empire and therefore i am at risk of being demolished by these "higher nations" and many of my friends have had the same thing done 2 them just cuz some guy wants to have a bit of fun
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Raffi
Recruit
Reged: 03/11/03
Posts: 42
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Kretschmer]
#83886 - 02/20/04 07:47 PM (66.191.207.55)
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Neveron a 'war game', hehe
Think of how many hours the average player sits in chat..works there empires and how much is spent in actual war. well sometimes hours just taking one zone. lol you see my point.
Neveron is a 'Strategy AND War' game and even the well known raiders in this game use specialy built DP loaded secondary empires for the most part, while their main ones sit back getting fat and spend either many many hours building them or donate thousands..even then takes alot of time. Once again repeating what I have for over a year, almost all political structures, folks wearing to many hats with little to loose from their main investments all can be accomplished by only allowing 1 empire per player.
This removes most of the cheating abilities that the admins spend way to much time/resources solving,blocking or tracking of. Then the alliance and political structure then mean something real to each player. you will still have folks in war but will reward you for the work that you spend MOST of your time in this game building/doing
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'The great turning point in history is when all will stand with one great voice and say...."Screw it, why bother" Then a lone voice from the silent darkness replies... "Gotcha"!
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Odin
Private
Reged: 03/10/03
Posts: 79
Loc: Ohio
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Re: LOL
[Re: Tigre]
#84177 - 02/22/04 01:11 PM (24.31.178.3)
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Gen has it in GRs profile btw
And allies will be listed later
Kinda ruins the fun of completely destroying someone if they touch one of our factions unknowingly though ; )
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1833
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: LOL
[Re: Odin]
#84181 - 02/22/04 01:16 PM (216.130.152.51)
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Laugh. . . what we really need is one website listing factions NOT part of Gen, HoC, UDC, Ryuken, or LIFE. It would be a small website.
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- Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: LOL
[Re: Tigre]
#84538 - 02/24/04 10:05 AM (204.187.76.3)
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Tigre that would be unfair. Hitting someone without an alliance to fall back on. Our biggest problem in this game is our alliance system works too well. None of the allied alliances fight each other and just get bigger. I would hate to see "The Alliance", Ryuken, LIFE or others fight but until this starts targets will be few and the smaller weaker factions will be unfairly preyed on. -Wesley
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sinsear
Captain
Reged: 07/16/03
Posts: 824
Loc: Australia
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Re: LOL
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#84589 - 02/24/04 03:36 PM (211.26.122.28)
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could happen sooner than you think.
At the moment, Ryu has the top two spots with another just outside top 10. If they get too big, then we may even see a banding of players toward them.
Of course, I'm not really privy to the higher echelon politics that heppen between leaders of the 'allies' so maybe they're brothers for all I know.
Nev is all about cycles. Eventually, alliances either break down,due to prominent players leaving Nev, or someone more ruthless with more time on their hands becomes a major player and tips the balance in another direction.
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: LOL
[Re: sinsear]
#84722 - 02/25/04 07:41 AM (204.187.76.3)
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Hmmm kinda true but the thing is Ryuken as we think of it isn't just Ryuken its the Clans as well. Though Ryuken Faction leaders and suc hthey are a seperate entitiy really. It is true the ties between the larger alliances are wanning in some cases. Way to many HoC members are selling out sadly. This also means it will be longer before Ryuken has trouble with anyone. -Wesley
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davion76
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 1605
Loc: Ridgecrest CA, USA
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Re: LOL
[Re: sinsear]
#84847 - 02/26/04 12:06 AM (138.163.0.42)
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Beg to differ. Ryu has the top 3 slots. And #6, and #11, and #16. Pretty strong faction, though who knows what the future holds.
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: LOL
[Re: davion76]
#84899 - 02/26/04 08:22 AM (204.187.76.3)
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Yes Ryukne is strong and they have only a few peopel selling out of the game. While HoC's leaders one of the group that seems to have the worst relationship with Ryuken is falling apart in from what the public see. Most of their leaders seem to be seling out of the game. As I a m Genyosha I would hate to see this so please no one think I am trying to make HoC look small or anything. Any HoC please correct me if I am way off. I would love to hear otherwise. -Wesley
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Odin
Private
Reged: 03/10/03
Posts: 79
Loc: Ohio
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Re: LOL
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#85037 - 02/26/04 09:21 PM (24.31.178.3)
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HoC is replenishing well enough, and they aren't selling that fast.
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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland
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Re: LOL
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#85069 - 02/27/04 03:19 AM (172.180.158.242)
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Ryuken also lives off a 'You leave us alone we leave you alone' philosophy. There are of course a few LWers, but most of the bigger people emphasize building over war. So unless seriously provoked there won't be any of the large scale gangbangs that some other groups are so fond of...
Lata
Krait
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: LOL
[Re: Odin]
#85085 - 02/27/04 05:14 AM (24.146.1.128)
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thx for correcting me Odin, I am happy to hear it -Wesley
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Ian_uknowwho]
#85585 - 03/01/04 09:53 AM (204.187.76.3)
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True Ian, the neveron alliance system should not be focusing on killing newbies and minor factions. They should fight other alliances that could beat them in a fair fight. -Wesley PS: My point of view is fair not best. lol
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keegraham
Corporal
Reged: 01/13/04
Posts: 98
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#85700 - 03/01/04 10:21 PM (68.107.154.165)
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you are right....unfortionatly not enough people see it that way.
the problem is no one wants to get into a costly faction war unless they already know they will win with minimal losses. aka kill every mutha fether in the other alliance.
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Nimon
Captain
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 819
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Wayward_Son]
#85759 - 03/02/04 08:15 AM (65.240.118.50)
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Impossible to reach I would say WW.
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: keegraham]
#85881 - 03/03/04 08:22 AM (204.187.76.3)
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Well its the reason I started my h so often hated Shinoda Tech Alliance. Now that its known as the FedCom and a fulle member of Genyosha we try only to hit factined empires or equal or higher size. Though I cannot convince the all of Genysha let alone the FedCom section that to only play fair. lol -Wesley
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Sir_Mark_II
Sergeant
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 105
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Rex_Regis]
#87345 - 03/16/04 12:50 PM (209.192.13.109)
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I think it was Rox who made a "political" map a while back. It's in one of the other posts. Quite the spiderweb, and that was generalizing based on the biggest alliances. The current shape of alliances in Nev irritates me a great deal, especially when even the factions with "Independent" in their names are still allied to some super alliance or another. 
Unfactioned empires are either destroyed or forced to join a faction they may not have wanted to be a part of-they know full well their ability to continue without a faction decreases every time their empire increases in level. But, that's the way of things.
While unfactioned, or weak factioned empires may face a contant threat, the rest of us sit in form of hostile peace, a cold war. HoC's conflicts are not the only reason market prices are high, the super alliances have swelled and are poised for confrontation. Everyone is making every effort to create a military that will withstand the shockwave from a clash of these titans. Oh, and lots of AIVs now that pirates are here. 
Still, be this a war game or something deeper-war is an aspect that is sought out-and as was pointed out-required for further development of an empire. Peace is never anything more than the prelude to the storm.
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Odin
Private
Reged: 03/10/03
Posts: 79
Loc: Ohio
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Sir_Mark_II]
#87425 - 03/17/04 06:12 AM (24.31.178.3)
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You'll never have a fair fight without total annihilation among the larger alliances. And hitting Kizos is hardly a fair fight, they would never be able to unite and threaten a single empire much less an alliance.
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Rex_Regis
Sergeant
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 129
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Re: What is the future of Nev's alliance systems
[Re: Sir_Mark_II]
#87679 - 03/20/04 06:19 PM (24.146.1.128)
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This cold war is not anyone one alliances fault its the game itself. Not the admin but just the name of the game more or less. It is the fact its a war game. People are people they make friends and ally. This cold war is the effect of socail connections. To break will need a lot of hate between groups not just no one else being left to kill. -Wesley
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