Whalefsh
02/11/04 12:48 PM
134.36.4.149
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Um... And people say Britain is a democracy?!
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmbills/014/04014.i-iv.html
For those who can't be bothered reading through it, here's a bit of a summary (some taken directly from the bill):
1 Meaning of “emergency”
(1)
In this Part “emergency” means an event or situation which threatens serious damage to—
(a)
human welfare in a place in the United Kingdom,
(b)
the environment of a place in the United Kingdom, or
(c)
the security of the United Kingdom or of a place in the United Kingdom.
(2)
For the purposes of subsection (1)(a) an event or situation threatens damage to human welfare only if it involves, causes or may cause—
(a)
loss of human life,
(b)
human illness or injury,
(c)
homelessness,
(d)
damage to property,
(e)
disruption of a supply of money, food, water, energy or fuel,
(f)
disruption of an electronic or other system of communication,
(g)
disruption of facilities for transport, or
(h)
disruption of services relating to health.
3)
For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) an event or situation threatens damage to the environment only if it involves, causes or may cause—
(a)
contamination of land, water or air with—
(i)
harmful biological, chemical or radio-active matter, or
(ii)
oil,
(b)
flooding, or
(c)
disruption or destruction of plant life or animal life.
(4)
For the purposes of subsection (1)(c) the following threaten damage to security—
(a)
war or armed conflict, and
(b)
terrorism, within the meaning given by section 1 of the Terrorism Act 2000 (c. 11).
(5)
A Minister of the Crown, or, in relation to Scotland, the Scottish Ministers, may by order—
(a)
provide that a specified event or situation, or class of event or situation, is to be treated as falling, or as not falling, within any of paragraphs (a) to (c) of subsection (1);
(b)
amend subsection (2) so as to provide that involving or causing disruption of a specified supply, system, facility or service—
(i)
is to be treated as threatening damage to human welfare, or
(ii)
is no longer to be treated as threatening damage to human welfare.
(6)
The event or situation mentioned in subsection (1) may occur or be inside or outside the United Kingdom.
The next wee bit is lifted from a summary written by a friend whose read the bill more in depthly than my self:
The Civil Contingencies Bill creates the powers to:
* Send the armed forces into anywhere in Britain;
* Ban movement of people and vehicles in an area;
* Order evacuation of an area;
* Seize, confiscate or destroy property, with or without compensation;
* Destroy animal or plant life, with or without compensation;
* Ban "assemblies of specified kinds, at specified places or at specified times";
* Arrest people who fail to co-operate with the emergency powers;
* Set up special tribunals.
* Make new laws witout parliaments consent
Um... this is quite scary really and just thought I should let people know...
************EDIT************
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3375115.stm
Easier going than my summary
Edited by Whalefsh (02/11/04 01:25 PM)
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Nightward
02/11/04 10:42 PM
202.141.216.104
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So the UK is following America. What a shock.
Down here, ASIO (Australian Security Intelligence Organisation) can arrest and incarcerate anyone for up to 48 hours without laying charges or allowing them access to a lawyer.
Sadly, this just seems to be the way things are going.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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tgsofgc
02/12/04 01:34 AM
67.4.198.39
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Yup sounds exactly like the incrediablly unconstitutional "patriot" act we have over here in the US. Hey maybe a Sci-fi post apocalyptic world isn't that far off, and just think in most fiction we need at least a nuclear war....
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Whalefsh
02/12/04 09:07 AM
134.36.4.115
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48hrs is nothing. We have our own little camp x-ray (camp delta, milton keynes) where 14 alledged terrorists have been held without charge for two years now. Of the 14, roughly half of them are suposedly suffering from mental illness, a number have attempted suicide, one has polio and one is without arms. Ignoring the basic human rights abuses, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Also, David Blunkett (home secretary) wants to increase the scope of the terrorism act so even less evidence is needed to imprison terror suspects. Which by going on those already imprisoned and by the tolerance of our police force will pretty much mean if your Asian or a Muslim you will be a suspect.
Hopefully the Liberal Democrats will continue on the gains they've been making in by-elections and will be able to take a few seats in the next general election and form an effective opposition.
Whalefsh
What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you excercise it?
To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you? - Tony Benn
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Grizzly
02/12/04 09:39 AM
12.108.119.227
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Yes, this sounds eerily similar to our Patriot Act. The crux of the problem is the delicate balancing act between individual rights and the rights of the whole nation to be safe and secure. There are no easy answers or solutions.... I am sure that many of our fore fathers (George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson etc.), would have been or were considered terrorists by the British Government during the American Revolution. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, it just depends on your point of view I guess. Is it possible to remain completely free, yet safe guard ourselves from those that wish us harm? I honestly don't know the answer....
"I am but mad north-northwest, when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw" Hamlet
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tgsofgc
02/12/04 05:16 PM
67.4.199.227
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Don't forget alot of the problems with politics right now is that not only have campaign lies become prevalent a new trend is "turncoat" canidates. I hope I don't offend you but Tony Blair seems to have been representing the exact opposite beliefs than those that got him elected.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Whalefsh
02/13/04 10:42 AM
134.36.4.108
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I lost all faith in Tony a long time ago...
You're right tho, he's represents the complete opposite of what Labour party supporters (I grew up in a very pro-labour household) believe in but what's happening now is that those supporters are leaving Labour for alternate parties like the liberal democrates or in Scotland the Scottish Socialist Party. Even the trade unions are starting to turn thier backs on labour. The RMT (railway workers union), who help found labour and have been affiliated with them since 1899, recently gave their support to the SSP, our firefighters union is thinking of doing the same and so is the communications workers union.
I think it was mainly due to their huge majority that Labour turned this way. Who said "power currupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly*"? Well, with the majority that labour hold they've pretty much got absolute power.
Although I hated her, at least with Thatcher she did what she said she was going to do and didn't mess about, Tony just puts so much "spin" on things that people are unsure of what's actually happening a lot of the time.
What's it like in other countries? From what I can gather the US is in a similar state to us. But what about the rest of Europe? Did anyone else hear about the Irish being the only E.U. country that will give equal rights AND benefits to workers from the new member states?
*not sure on the exact quote.
Whalefsh
What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you excercise it?
To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you? - Tony Benn
Edited by Whalefsh (02/13/04 10:42 AM)
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Nightward
02/13/04 06:21 PM
203.134.46.162
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Somehow, I'm unsurprised someone from Dundee is a political revolutionary 
It all comes down to the one old question- "Would you rahter free a guilty man, or jail an innocent?". I don't like the idea of individuals being picked up wihout what *USED* to be due course, but then, if it does save lives...
Arg. This is why I hate my ethics courses at Uni.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Whalefsh
02/14/04 10:20 AM
134.36.4.154
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But we are doing both. Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement we are releasing convicted republican and loyalist terrorists, while at the same time imprisoning alledged al qaida suspects with far less evidence than was used to imprison IRA etc suspects.
For a blind man, David Blunkett seems to have a lot of prejudice. His main target in the terrorism act seemed to be the British muslim communities and it appears that the only evidence needed is that the suspect has to be a muslim because all muslims hate the UK. I find this logic extremely flawed but then again it will appeal to the voter's of middle england who's grasp on reality seems to be vague at best.
On a different note. I'm glad I no longer do Philosophy as Ehtics and Logic did my head in! Apart from truth tables but I remebered them from Higher Physics!
Oh by the way, there isn't much to do in Dundee apart from get drunk and rant! 
Whalefsh
What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you excercise it?
To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you? - Tony Benn
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Nightward
02/14/04 06:32 PM
203.134.40.134
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Sadly, it's a different world these days. Rather than having a system that dispenses Justice, we've got a system that administers the Law. It's a pretty big difference, that right there.)
Admitttedly I'm drawing this from BT knowledge, but I was under the impression that Dundee was of some importance in one of Scotland's wars or revolutions against the English. I take it that was wrong?
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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tgsofgc
02/15/04 02:19 AM
67.4.199.111
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Not sure how much further to take this because I am sure sooner or later it will degrade into arguements...
First in case you don't know, by current US middle american standards I am extremely liberal. Last election I voted fr Nader, why? Cause I though (in correctlyI guess0 that there is no way half of america would elect GWB.
However I do think he is less of a turncoat than blair. He was a reagan style neo conservative (I use the term to refer to further many conservative.republican ideals while alienating some central ones... such as individual rights and lowering government spending [don't argue if you think it wll start a arguement I know this is 99.999999999999999999% my opinion]) and it wasn't surprising in the least (at least to me and most like minded acquaintences) that he took the US to war and trumpted WMDs. So while i don't like hi/aprove of his ways at least he wasn't a turncoat. (course without getting mired in american politics there were plenty of instances in recent years to support both major parties as turn coats [sigh why can't we have a true multiparty system and not a 2 party system], for instance drug abus vs billy boy but not vs GW, service failures/lack there of ok for billy boy but not for GW, etc.)
If you want to flame me, please don't, I am sorry in advance if this offends anyone (ps. is it just me or do battletech players fall far on the right side of conservative usually... see Blasty Mc Nasty (< great guy) and his shoot everything up conservativeness).
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Grizzly
02/15/04 02:43 AM
209.86.72.253
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I don't know about the rest of the Battletech Community, but I don't consider myself conservative or particularily liberal, I have tendencies both ways (depending on the issue) so I would say I am very middle of the road. I also wouldn't worry about offending anyone, as you stated in your post, it's your opionion, and last time I checked we still didn't have any thought police.
"I am but mad north-northwest, when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw" Hamlet
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Spartan
02/15/04 12:26 PM
67.64.115.238
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It's crap like what you're talking about that makes me reluctant to vote. I refuse to choose the lesser of 2 evils simple because I have no other choice.
Spartan
We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.
(I refer you to what Nightward said)
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Nightward
02/15/04 05:28 PM
203.134.41.131
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It's a problem where *YOU* live?
Down here, certain suburbs and electorates will vote for a *PARTY* rather than a *CANDIDATE* and completely ignore the party's track recod, leadership skills, and policies. They will also ignore the past history of the candidate (we have had paedophiles elected to Parliament) and simply defer to whatever portrayal they have seen in the media.
I live in the Electorate of Logan. The Labour Party could nominate Adolph Hitler as their candidate and he would storm to power on an almost 100% primary vote.
Last election, Informal Votes (empty ballots or ones filled in incorrectly) outnumbered the primary votes for two of the other candidates together.
In spite of this, however, Australia has yet to fall, though of late, things are looking decidedly wobbly.
I prefer the ancient Greek method of selecting politicians. Essentially, names were drawn out of a hat and these people were elevated to governemtn. All of their stuff was confiscated by the state, and if they did well during their tenure, they got it back. If they failed miserably, they got nothing back.
Sound good to anyne else?
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Spartan
02/15/04 08:51 PM
67.64.115.238
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Yeah, I like your idea, bring back Greek government selection. I think much of the problem, especially for national level politicians, is that they forget that what they're doing is called public SERVICE. But, also they forget that they should be trying to make things work. And rather than attempting to do precisely that, they cling to their ideology as though it were fact and a consequence get nothing done. Finally, most are more interested in appearing to have done something than actually doing anything.
Spartan
We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.
(I refer you to what Nightward said)
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Whalefsh
02/16/04 10:19 AM
134.36.4.146
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No, you're right. The whole area is important (Tayside/Perthshire) as it is kinda where lowland scotland ends and where the highlands begins. Considering most of the wars of independence were as much between lowland scots and highland scots as it was between the scots and the english (hope that makes sense?).
Dundee is also home to The Black Watch (which in my limited Btech knowledge are an important regiment). The Black Watch were founded to "police" the Highlands and were based here and in Perth, not the most honourable of the Scottish regiments but mind you none were. (Try http://www.army.mod.uk/blackwatch/ for a bit of a history on the Black Watch)
Dundee itself is quite an important city. Ninewells, our hospital, is a world renowned teaching hospital, specialising in cancer research as well as other things, however, not a lot happens here...
Whalefsh
What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you excercise it?
To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you? - Tony Benn
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Nightward
02/17/04 12:42 AM
203.134.41.134
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Wow. The researchers at FASA managed to get something right for a change, lol...
Most places are pretty boring, if you're not a tourist. I believe people get jaded to their own surroundings.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Whalefsh
02/17/04 10:43 AM
134.36.4.107
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Especially when it's dundee, when I lived in edinburgh there were plently things to do but here....
Whalefsh
What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you excercise it?
To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you? - Tony Benn
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Ignorant_Savage
03/05/04 04:41 AM
24.197.176.136
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for my response, please refer to my signature below.
if you want your democracy, take it back, get out and vote, 'mano. hey, remember the 'magna carta'? you guys inventend civil rights and all... still though, this is pretty serious stuff.... kinda like the 'USA PATRIOT' acts here in the US. you turn your back on those cats in the big houses, and there go your civil rights out the window. it's up to us to keep tabs on them.
there's a big movement trying to fight this kind of facisim on this side of the pond. we're going to keep trying, hope you guys do too.
- Savage
"Those who trade away essential freedoms for a little saftey deserve neither freedom or saftey."
- Benjamin Franklin
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